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There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.

awegrzyn said:
People follow general trends and general opinions. Hence, their analysis of Toronto is off. There is nothing wrong with players in the "CoreFore" except they are together on the same team. Once they separate they will win. This is not a full picture, but the stats paint a completely different picture:

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.
2. The playoffs "elevated" game, people talk about, by McDavid and Dri is actually the same in terms of Points Per Game in the playoffs.
3. Alex Barkov is (watch out) 9th on Panters in the playoffs in terms of scoring for Points Per Game.
4. Core 4 scores on average 1 point per game in regular season and in the playoffs. How much more do you want from them when other stars produce them same.
5. Only Rantanen out scores the Toronto Core 4. The rest of Dallas does not even get close to Toronto scoring.

The problem is somewhere else. Just look at the playoffs stats for both Toronto and Florida and compare Points Per Game. You will get the correct answer. The Toronto team is simply build wrong. That's on management. They ran into Florida that is build as the best team right now. There is no way for Toronto to win this. Just compare their production across the team. Toronto is not overrated. It actually is underrated, and goes as far in the playoffs as their build allows them.
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I have defended this core for years, I said many many times get this team a real coach and real goalie and see what happens.

And they did that and it did go better objectively it did, I do believe Berube and Treliving has them on the right track.

But multiple things can be true.

#1 it did go objectively better this season then any season in last 23 year that's objectively true.

#2 Berube and Treliving have the team on the right track I believe that's objectively true based on #1.

#3 it doesn't f***ing matter.

They NEED to make changes, I don't think trading Matthews is the change that is needed like some are suggesting, that's the wrong thing to do.

BUT THEY NEED TO MAKE CHANGES.

And I'm not just talking about Marner that's obvious he's likely gone.

I'm talking about almost the entire bottom 6, and I say almost the entire bottom 6 because I do want Lorentz back.

I'd keep Domi because I feel like he can play anywhere in the lineup but at the same time if you can move him and bring ina better piece I'm open to that

Matthews
Knies
Nylander
Domi
Tavares.
Lorentz

Those are the forwards I'd keep.

The rest can f*** off and I like Jarnkrok and Kampf but they have to need go.

And let me be clear I'm only keeping Tavares because I don't see a replacement available, maybe if you can sign Bennett I'd look at that but beyond him I don't see a legitimate replacement.

half this forward group can f*** OFF

there are good pieces here.

but THEY NEED CHANGES
 
They have to do something.

I don't understand how they can play a near perfect game on Friday and then decide to head to vacation early and blow game 7.

Is Muskoka that good???
 
General Fanager said:
They have to do something.

I don't understand how they can play a near perfect game on Friday and then decide to head to vacation early and blow game 7.

Is Muskoka that good???
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It's pretty obvious playing in Toronto the last 2 games became an anchor on the team. At some point you have to forget all the noise and pressure and just play and not worry of people are going to be mad
 
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awegrzyn said:
People follow general trends and general opinions. Hence, their analysis of Toronto is off. There is nothing wrong with players in the "CoreFore" except they are together on the same team. Once they separate they will win. This is not a full picture, but the stats paint a completely different picture:

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.
2. The playoffs "elevated" game, people talk about, by McDavid and Dri is actually the same in terms of Points Per Game in the playoffs.
3. Alex Barkov is (watch out) 9th on Panters in the playoffs in terms of scoring for Points Per Game.
4. Core 4 scores on average 1 point per game in regular season and in the playoffs. How much more do you want from them when other stars produce them same.
5. Only Rantanen out scores the Toronto Core 4. The rest of Dallas does not even get close to Toronto scoring.

The problem is somewhere else. Just look at the playoffs stats for both Toronto and Florida and compare Points Per Game. You will get the correct answer. The Toronto team is simply build wrong. That's on management. They ran into Florida that is build as the best team right now. There is no way for Toronto to win this. Just compare their production across the team. Toronto is not overrated. It actually is underrated, and goes as far in the playoffs as their build allows them.
Click to expand...

The core 4 is EXACTLY what is wrong with the Leafs. Points mean nothing when you play the way they do. They are SOFT as Charmin toilet paper. Nylander only plays 50% of the ice, and not one of the core 4 do ANYTHING that is required to win, especially when they do not have the puck.

Being a Panthers fan, and watching the teams with Brunette/Q, and then Maurice, we have seen quite well what the players need to do in order to win 4 rounds in a single playoff run. They lack the ability, and the will, to make all the plays required to win. They are too scared and soft, and refuse to play for the team. The Panthers play for each other, sacrifice their bodies for the team, for the Cup, rather than individual accolades or attention.

They can make all the changes they want, but until the top paid players, whoever stays, decides that they need to change their game style in the playoffs, they will never be more than 1-2 series win team per playoffs.
 
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IMO they need to let Tavares and Marner walk.

Too many of the skilled but perimeter players taking up a good portion of the cap.
Nylander was deadly early on with the breakaways, but once Bob woke up/defense was a bit better he also went quiet.
I honestly don't remember Marner within 40 feet of Bob.

Build around Matthews(contract/talent), Knies, and Nylander. Get younger on defense, which of course is easier said than done.
 
KaseMeOutside said:
How many times can you relive groundhog day I don't know why they were so insistent on keeping this team together for so long
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Matthews, 1st overall
Marner, 4th overall
Nylander, 8th overal
Tavares, big glitzy hometown boy(a luxury signing from day 1)

They've been so insistent because these are the guys they built the team around. This is who they invested in. But now these guys aren't young anymore. Now they've put up their worst performance, along the string of disappointment. Now they can let two of these guys go, simply because their contracts are done. Now you're not the guy who traded Marner, and he inevitably wins somewhere else. Now nobody cares if he goes on to win somewhere else, people just want change.
 
Playoff hockey is such a balance of talent and grit. It continues to amaze me how Toronto is unable to assemble a team that has enough toughness to withstand the physicality of the playoffs. Of all people, Shanahan should know what it takes.
 
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There's definitely something wrong with Rielly. That's the guy to get rid of - hes not even on the PP anymore.
 
I've been watching hockey for a long time, but I don't remember something like that.

In game 4-5-6-7
Matthews 1 pts
Marner 1 pts
Nylander 0 pts
Tavares 0 pts.

I wouldn't keep a single one of them. They all have to go. It won't happen and leafs will probably re-sign Marner and Tavares. At this point, I don't even know what their options are.

And Marner refused a trade for Rantanen? WOW he would hurt the leafs any possible way he could. I wouldn't take him on my team at 10m/y as an UFA
 
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Their problem is they dont know how to win when the pressure ramps up. I fully expect Matthews to win a cup in his 30's with another team when he signs with a winning organization. They brought in Tavares who was a perpetual loser in New York, then handed the captaincy to Matthews just because he was the new baby face who could score goals in the regular season...

They then build an old old D core - trade all of their picks for aged talent, and ask Matthews/Marner/Nylander learn how to win with a coach and leadership group who have never learned to win.
 
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Honestly - the fact that no-show, Mr Pay me like Draisaitl, screams at his teammates and then goes out and berates them to the media is one of the most obscene things I’ve heard (hockey wise) lately. He had an A on his jersey? No wonder that core didn’t go anywhere
 
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DickSmehlik said:
The best part about the Leafs annual playoff disappearing act is that once they are eliminated, they crucify the core 4 and then about a month later they convince themselves that they aren't the problem and advocate for all of them to come back for another go at it.
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It'a called the Maple Leafs Cycle
FB_IMG_1743706466383.jpg.webp
 
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albator71 said:
Brady 4 goals in 6 games
Matthews 3 goals in 13 games

Matthews is not a leader is a follower that's the problem in Toronto, they have a bunch of followers but no one to lead.
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That image of Marner in front of the open net sums up Leaf's performances in the second round
 

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