The Window Starts Now

Captain Crunch

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Mar 31, 2019
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Babcock reminds me of the Sargeant in Full Metal Jacket.

Clearly he was an asshat all the players hated. That didn't prevent him from being a HOF head coach who won the cup and gold medal. Players that want to win it all will find a way to dig in deep and overcome all obstacles.

Including a head coach whose guts you hate so much you want shoot him like the fat kid did to the Sargeant in Full Metal Jacket.
I don't know, but I believe Babcock was not like that back then. Also, I never did care for Babcock. To me, he happened to be in the right places at the right time. He has proven to now be a douchebag after what he did here, as well as in Columbus. I cannot see how you do not see this, but I guess you are entitled to your own opinion.
 

Captain Crunch

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Mar 31, 2019
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Put me in the "I don't care" camp. Let's take a deep breath. He was "mean" to grown men who play sports. He made them feel uncomfortable? La dee da. Has anyone here with a real job not had difficult people to work with? I think there is a reason that only a few players, of the thousands he would have coached over the years, have come forward to say anything.


Exactly. When I was a wee young lawyer I had partners tear strips off me, engage in psychological warfare and basically do their best to make me feel like gum under their shoe, all for the sake of feeding their grand egos. Happens in every job everywhere. That doesn't make it right or pleasant or enjoyable in the least. But it does make it reality.
Yes, there will always be those kinds of people around, but does that make it right? Also, have you become (or maybe you always have been) the same type of person as your partners? If so, then I can understand why you feel the way you do.
 

Evilhomer

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Oct 10, 2019
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Yes, there will always be those kinds of people around, but does that make it right? Also, have you become (or maybe you always have been) the same type of person as your partners? If so, then I can understand why you feel the way you do.
Like I said, it doesn't make it right. But the way that Babcock's reputation has somehow been tarnished more than the guy who turned a blind eye to sexual assault for the sake of winning says something about what's important in society.
 
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conFABulator

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Apr 11, 2021
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I am so torn on Robertson. If you put him with say, Jarnkrok, and a solid 2 way centerman who could make plays in the ozone, would that work? It would allow Robertson to focus more on his offensive capabilities, while the other two could help with his defensive limitations. Of course the problem is that we do not have that centerman.
Yeah, Robertson and Liljegren might be two of the bigger question makes in that they could be very useful pieces or they could be what we currently see.

Robertson could be a 30 goal guy and what team can't use more of those. The problem of course is ice time and his ability to earn that time by not being one dimensional. He's a winger, is he going to take ice time from Nylander? Marner? Bertuzzi? Domi? Knies? McMann?...also Cowan? Grebenkin? I am not even including Jarnkrok , Dewar or Holmberg who might be fourth line wingers.

I know if we trade him to a team that can give him top six and PP time we will see that we just traded a 30-goal man. This is why I am very open to us making some room by trading Marner for a C, D or G (or combination thereof). I know we could just not sign both of Domi and Bertuzzi but I like what they bring. It all points to moving Marner, if we can.
 

conFABulator

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Apr 11, 2021
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No window with Marner on the books.

So it doesn’t start now.

It’s on pause.
Well the original post says we have to move Marner to start opening our window. I understand he has NMC and maybe that he would like to stay. I think it can be done. He does not want t to here if the organization wants to move him and the fanbase knows it.
 

Captain Crunch

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Mar 31, 2019
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Like I said, it doesn't make it right. But the way that Babcock's reputation has somehow been tarnished more than the guy who turned a blind eye to sexual assault for the sake of winning says something about what's important in society.
I agree 100% with you regarding how Bettman viewed/handled what Babcock did compared to the Blackhawks and Kyle Beach. As for the judicial system, Aldrich, the guy who sexually assaulted Beach only ended up serving 5 months of a 9 month sentence! Both of those numbers are insane!!! Add onto that the fact that after the assault occured, the Hawks gave a good reference for Aldrich, who then went on to become an assistant coach with a high school team, where he then proceeded to sexually assault another boy! This time he served 9 months and had to be registered as a sex offender.

Bettman and the league did help Beach in his road to recovery, not sure about the Hawks, and neither have offered to do anything to help the 2nd victim!

So again, I agree with you 100% on how the league views/handles these types of things!
 

conFABulator

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Apr 11, 2021
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I agree 100% with you regarding how Bettman viewed/handled what Babcock did compared to the Blackhawks and Kyle Beach. As for the judicial system, Aldrich, the guy who sexually assaulted Beach only ended up serving 5 months of a 9 month sentence! Both of those numbers are insane!!! Add onto that the fact that after the assault occured, the Hawks gave a good reference for Aldrich, who then went on to become an assistant coach with a high school team, where he then proceeded to sexually assault another boy! This time he served 9 months and had to be registered as a sex offender.

Bettman and the league did help Beach in his road to recovery, not sure about the Hawks, and neither have offered to do anything to help the 2nd victim!

So again, I agree with you 100% on how the league views/handles these types of things!
I think the issue might be that Babcock is a double (at least) offender. I know the offense is much less, but he was given a second chance and blew it immediately, worse than the first time.

Also, Babcock's issues were all his doing. It is not know how in the know Quennville was. His account is that he was told about some "harassment" and that it was being dealt with. He was told this by people senior to him. His job was to coach to Stanley Cups while those above him handled this matter. Cheveldayoff was part of the management team and he didn't get suspended at all. I always found that interesting.
 

Darcy Tucker

My Name is Bob
Mar 23, 2008
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Vaughan, Ontario
Screenshot_2024-05-31-09-01-02~2.png


The window starts when this fraud is off the team.
 

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
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View attachment 877841

The window starts when this fraud is off the team.
Unless JT was filling out his tax returns himself, I don't blame him for the tax mess - that's on his accountant.

Similarly, I can't blame him for wanting to play here and taking as much money and term as he could get - the fact that he wasn't what was needed and that his contract started all the overpayment problems is on Dubas (and Shanahan).

But yes, as I've been saying since we signed him, the window is basically closed until he leaves.
 

Captain Crunch

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Mar 31, 2019
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I think the issue might be that Babcock is a double (at least) offender. I know the offense is much less, but he was given a second chance and blew it immediately, worse than the first time.

Also, Babcock's issues were all his doing. It is not know how in the know Quennville was. His account is that he was told about some "harassment" and that it was being dealt with. He was told this by people senior to him. His job was to coach to Stanley Cups while those above him handled this matter. Cheveldayoff was part of the management team and he didn't get suspended at all. I always found that interesting.
Also, apparently when this all happened, the team president knew about it, but said that no one else was to be told anything about the situation, and Bowman the GM, was with him when he said this. So personally, I believe Quenneville when he said that.
 
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conFABulator

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Unless JT was filling out his tax returns himself, I don't blame him for the tax mess - that's on his accountant.

Similarly, I can't blame him for wanting to play here and taking as much money and term as he could get - the fact that he wasn't what was needed and that his contract started all the overpayment problems is on Dubas (and Shanahan).

But yes, as I've been saying since we signed him, the window is basically closed until he leaves.
But why? Tavares has to leave? You don't think we have a better chance of winning if we keep Tavares with adeep hometown discount and he gives up the C? Tavares at $1.5M and $9.5M to spend elsewhere?
 

notDatsyuk

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Jul 20, 2018
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But why? Tavares has to leave? You don't think we have a better chance of winning if we keep Tavares with adeep hometown discount and he gives up the C? Tavares at $1.5M and $9.5M to spend elsewhere?
You're right - as with the rest of my point, it's not a matter of JT leaving, but of that terrible contract leaving.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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But why? Tavares has to leave? You don't think we have a better chance of winning if we keep Tavares with adeep hometown discount and he gives up the C? Tavares at $1.5M and $9.5M to spend elsewhere?
You aren’t getting Tavares at 1.5 million.
Claude Giroux makes 6 million
82 Games 21 goals 43 assists 64 points

John Tavares
80 games 29 goals 36 assists 65 points
 

conFABulator

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Apr 11, 2021
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You aren’t getting Tavares at 1.5 million.
Claude Giroux makes 6 million
82 Games 21 goals 43 assists 64 points

John Tavares
80 games 29 goals 36 assists 65 points
Ok. Let's see. My point was that it is not that Tavares is no good, it's that he is overpaid.

I think $1.5M might be too low and was using that number to make a point, the point being that there is a number that makes him attractive.

I am curious to see his number obviously, what leverage does he have? Take $2M and stay in Toronto, his hometown and where his family is or take $4M and go somewhere else as a mercenary? I think we get him on the cheap for sure...maybe with term and another NMC. I also have think he gives up the C.
 

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