Online Series: The Wheel of Time (Prime Video, Nov 22)

[Siamese Dream]

I don't hate it but I don't really like it that much either. I think if it wasn't brand new and I was starting when it's a few seasons in and I'd need to binge to catch up, I probably wouldn't bother. But it's fine for watching once a week. As others have mentioned I'm getting too much YA vibes from it. Rosamund Pike is carrying the show for me, I'm still struggling to care about any of the 5 main young characters.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't hate it but I don't really like it that much either. I think if it wasn't brand new and I was starting when it's a few seasons in and I'd need to binge to catch up, I probably wouldn't bother. But it's fine for watching once a week. As others have mentioned I'm getting too much YA vibes from it. Rosamund Pike is carrying the show for me, I'm still struggling to care about any of the 5 main young characters.

No one is engrossing me like a Ragnar Lothbrok, Jon Snow, Uhtred, Alina Starkov, etc.

I kind of dig Moiraine and Lan, but not like the characters above.

Takes time though with some characters.

 

[Richard]

I mean honest question, do the Perrin/Egwene/Nynaeve actors show any worse acting than Rand/Matt in the opening 25 minutes? For a show like this that's expected run a good number of years they're going to cast the young characters with relative unknowns. I doubt the acting from the former group would be better if these were white actors.

Also I have the first book out in audio format from the library right now, the main description given to Perrin is large & curly haired, and Egwene dark hair and dark eyes. Personally of those 5 I think Marcus Rutherford fits his role best as Perrin.

No no they all sucked.

 

[Osprey]

No no they all sucked.

I don't see the use in complaining about the minority actors being bad if the white actors are, as well. That suggests that more of the latter wouldn't have been any better. If the minority actors in this show weren't pulling their weight, I might agree with you.

If anything, I've been least impressed with the guy who plays Rand (the white guy with curly red hair). He contributes the most to the YA vibes, IMO, and has shown less than the other actors so far. In fairness, he's had the least developed character, which I expect to change, but I'm still a bit skeptical.

 

[CupHolders]

I loved the way the did Loial for the show. Probably comes off as campy, but I feel like the personality really matches what I imagined in my head. Especially the non-stop talking and having to be cut off mid-sentence multiple times.

I do think in episode 5 they spent far too much time on Stepin and his arc. I guess they're really trying to push the warder/Aes Sedai bond for future context, but I think it could have been done without centering 50% of an episode on a character I don't really know or care about.

A bit of a gripe I have with the show/book changes is that I feel like they haven't done justice to Warders at all in the show. In the book, they're master combatants who are vigilant and on the edge of violence at all times. The book describes them multiple times as having a prowling walk like a wolf ready to pounce. The show warders just seem like friendly soldiers. Lan I think does a decent job (although I'd like to see more dialogue with him and Rand), but the others don't strike me at all as what I imagined from the books.

While I don’t mind how the warders are portrayed “off-duty” while at the camp fire (episode 3) or preparing for the ring smelting ceremony (episode 4)… I think the show would be better served showing them more as they are mentioned in the book when “on-duty.”

Which would be as you described, kind of like stone cold predators ready to pounce. Granted, they haven’t had much “on-duty” time. But still, even some of the warder extras in last episode just didn’t seem to have the look. I think that juxtaposition of the book and show version would work well.

I recall seeing a WOT preview/teaser that presumably showed some Sheinarns on horseback and a scene later marching in two single files. In that small glimpse, they had much more of the look I would expect from both borderlanders AND the warders.

 

[CupHolders]

I mean honest question, do the Perrin/Egwene/Nynaeve actors show any worse acting than Rand/Matt in the opening 25 minutes? For a show like this that's expected run a good number of years they're going to cast the young characters with relative unknowns. I doubt the acting from the former group would be better if these were white actors.

Also I have the first book out in audio format from the library right now, the main description given to Perrin is large & curly haired, and Egwene dark hair and dark eyes. Personally of those 5 I think Marcus Rutherford fits his role best as Perrin.

How far along in the book are you? As I vaguely recall that Egwene was also mentioned as having dark skin/complexion toward the end of book one or early in book two.

It’s been a while since I read the series initially… and re-read the first two books in October prior to the show.

 

[RandV]

How far along in the book are you? As I vaguely recall that Egwene was also mentioned as having dark skin/complexion toward the end of book one or early in book two.

It’s been a while since I read the series initially… and re-read the first two books in October prior to the show.

Halfway through, with everyone past Whitebridge. Still only finished episode 2 of the show though. I started reading this in the 90's though and generally don't do re-reads so wouldn't know, but it just stood out to me that what description is given in the books do fit these specific two characters. Now this isn't always the case and not really what the show is going for, Lan and probably Min (not sure if she's showed up yet?) are different, but it works for Perrin and Egwene at least if you care for that sort of thing.

 

[Warden of the North]

Two things

I am irrationally bothered by how clean Rand's clothing is. He's been on the road for two months yet his lambskin traveling jacket looks like it was dry cleaned that morning.

Now, seriously - why are the White Cloaks allowed to have a military presence pretty much anywhere? Are they in control of the whole land? Why does no one oppose their relatively small group of sadistic idiots traveling around torturing people?

 

[NyQuil]

Now, seriously - why are the White Cloaks allowed to have a military presence pretty much anywhere? Are they in control of the whole land? Why does no one oppose their relatively small group of sadistic idiots traveling around torturing people?

Well, technically they did conquer and occupy the land of Amadicia.

Just think of them as crusaders who have a significant amount of martial strength, as a knightly order, and have some degree of support from elements of the populace due to their anti-channeling and anti-witch beliefs.

Their leader is one of the great generals of the current age (not Eamon Valda). The element shown in the TV show is just a single band of the larger group, and likely smaller than in the books due to budgetary and CGI constraints.

A lot of the common folk do not trust the Aes Sedai, and the Children of the Light do protect the people on occasion from more conventional foes that aren't associated with channeling.

Historically, the crusaders pretty much did whatever they wanted in the Middle Ages and went wherever they chose.

 

[beowulf]

Well, technically they did conquer and occupy the land of Amadicia.

Just think of them as crusaders who have a significant amount of martial strength, as a knightly order, and have some degree of support from elements of the populace due to their anti-channeling and anti-witch beliefs.

Their leader is one of the great generals of the current age (not Eamon Valda). The element shown in the TV show is just a single band of the larger group, and likely smaller than in the books due to budgetary and CGI constraints.

And a lot of the common folk do not trust the Aes Sedai, and the Children of the Light do protect the people from more conventional foes that aren't associated with channeling.

Historically, the crusaders pretty much did whatever they wanted in the Middle Ages and went wherever they chose.

Yes and no depends on who they were. Crusaders paid for by a King went and did what they wanted but the Knights Templar are probably the best example as they grew so powerful that they didn't answer to any King basically and only kind of answered to the Pope and this pissed of the King of France, Philip IV who basically killed them.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Apparently, this Friday's episode is Brandon Sanderson's (author who finished the book series after Robert Jordan passed, and a fantastic author in his own right) favourite script of the season and he says its a 10/10. Hopefully its a big episode that reels in a lot of the folks who are on the fence about the series. Personally, Im enjoying it a lot, but the books are special to me and I think they'd have to screw it up immensely for me not to enjoy it.

 

[RandV]

Well, technically they did conquer and occupy the land of Amadicia.

Just think of them as crusaders who have a significant amount of martial strength, as a knightly order, and have some degree of support from elements of the populace due to their anti-channeling and anti-witch beliefs.

Their leader is one of the great generals of the current age (not Eamon Valda). The element shown in the TV show is just a single band of the larger group, and likely smaller than in the books due to budgetary and CGI constraints.

A lot of the common folk do not trust the Aes Sedai, and the Children of the Light do protect the people on occasion from more conventional foes that aren't associated with channeling.

Historically, the crusaders pretty much did whatever they wanted in the Middle Ages and went wherever they chose.

Also something you have to wrap your head around in this sort of genre, it may not be as easy to show in a TV show vs a book, but the 'evil' is very real. They may be overzealous assholes but there are actual "dark friends" living out in the world.

 

[Jussi]

Mat, you stupid knob.

 

[NyQuil]

Mat, you stupid knob.

He's such an annoying character that he's changing his entire appearance for Season 2.

Mat's character arc can be summed up as: Pre-Dagger / With Dagger / Post Dagger

Thank god we finally got over Phase 2 (or did we? dum dum dummmm), it even dragged in the show and it was only a couple of episodes.

 

[RandV]

Finally caught up now, and well that's a twist from the books. It makes things more interesting for readers and it works, but I wonder if that wasn't a re-write due to off screen circumstances with Barney Harris wanting to check out. Or maybe not, the 'fellowship' is hitting the road now and Min still hasn't checked in, but is supposed to appear in two episodes so maybe it's Matt that runs into her?

And gotta say as the show goes on it maybe been a little shaky at the start but the characters are growing on me in their roles. Which should be pretty normal in acting as actors are just other people and need to learn/grow into their roles.

 

[CupHolders]

I agree with some of the criticism that I have read/heard on articles/podcasts that this show has at times done a poor job with pacing.

The further we get the more I keep feeling they really needed (at minimum) an extra hour up until now.

I feel episode one and five suffered the most because of that lost hour. The show runner reportedly wanted ten episodes instead of eight. Ten definitely would’ve been the way to go.

But, I was excited about this episode mentioning reports of “Aeil on this side of the spine,” and “Missing ships” to the east.

One of the things that made this series so special was the scope of culture clash that occurs throughout.

As much as “Eye of the World” is a “Lord of the Rings” homage to seemingly appease the target audience of the 1990’s fantasy publishers… the rest of the series is much more different in feel. Large scale battles, major political upheavals and that’s before even getting to the ultimate conflict.

Also… please give me a whole episode, or even better; a Halloween special on a night spent at Hinderstap.

 

[Osprey]

That episode didn't do much for me. A whole episode in a city with a focus on the politics of the Aes Sedai is not very interesting to me. At least it's over with.

The young people aren't going to be happy with Moiraine once they ask each other how long they were in the city and realize that she kept them apart and deceived them about it (talk about splitting hairs between lying and deceiving). Was that worth the risk of losing the tiny bit of trust that they have in her?

I wonder if Moiraine saying "clever as a pike" was just a coincidence.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I wonder if Moiraine saying "clever as a pike" was just a coincidence.

I noticed this too

 

[Ginger Papa]

Ok, I’ve watched all the episodes now with my 15 year old Ginger Daughter.

I’ll try to share both of our perspectives as well as possible.

Criticisms go to:

• Perrin didn’t accidentally kill his wife (edit as per @Jussi ). Completely unnecessary modification.
• Mat’s parents were not neglectful, nor suffered from substance abuse- Completely unnecessary.
• The Dragon Reborn was never intended to be a female. There are more than enough strong feminine characters from the source material. No need to deviate, imho.

Applause goes to:

• The multicultural cast. Although it’s not the way I envisioned some characters in my reading mind, I really respect the variety.
  
• The Special FX crew’s interpretation of the Power. No, it’s not exactly as I pictured it in my minds eye, but it’s pretty f***ing close.
• Dialing back on how bitchy the good women are (Nynaeve, Moraine, Egwene). With all due respect to James Rigney, he really wrote these characters as insufferable for quite a while. Kudos for the show runner(s) and Harriet for the balanced writing for this cast.
• Last, but not least, great job on shortening the story by probably 3 Books already. That being said, please don’t rob us of the amazing battles that occur in the first 3 books.

 

[Jussi]

Ok, I’ve watched all the episodes now with my 15 year old Ginger Daughter.

I’ll try to share both of our perspectives as well as possible.

Criticisms go to:

• Perrin didn’t murder his wife. Completely unnecessary modification.
• Mat’s parents were not neglectful, nor suffered from substance abuse- Completely unnecessary.
• The Dragon Reborn was never intended to be a female. There are more than enough strong feminine characters from the source material. No need to deviate, imho.

Applause goes to:

• The multicultural cast. Although it’s not the way I envisioned some characters in my reading mind, I really respect the variety.
  
• The Special FX crew’s interpretation of the Power. No, it’s not exactly as I pictured it in my minds eye, but it’s pretty f***ing close.
• Dialing back on how bitchy the good women are (Nynaeve, Moraine, Egwene). With all due respect to James Rigney, he really wrote these characters as insufferable for quite a while. Kudos for the show runner(s) and Harriet for the balanced writing for this cast.
• Last, but not least, great job on shortening the story by probably 3 Books already. That being said, please don’t rob us of the amazing battles that occur in the first 3 books.

Uhmm...he didn't. It was an accident.

 

[Osprey]

Uhmm...he didn't. It was an accident.

That's what he wants you to think. I imagine that she relentlessly belittled him and he simply had enough. When the opportunity arose to make it look like an accident and run off to have exciting adventures with his friends, he took it.

 

[Jussi]

That's what he wants you to think. I imagine that she relentlessly belittled him and he simply had enough. When the opportunity arose to make it look like an accident and run off to have exciting adventures with his friends, he took it.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Ok, I’ve watched all the episodes now with my 15 year old Ginger Daughter.

I’ll try to share both of our perspectives as well as possible.

Criticisms go to:

• Perrin didn’t accidentally kill his wife (edit as per @Jussi ). Completely unnecessary modification.
• Mat’s parents were not neglectful, nor suffered from substance abuse- Completely unnecessary.
• The Dragon Reborn was never intended to be a female. There are more than enough strong feminine characters from the source material. No need to deviate, imho.

Applause goes to:

• The multicultural cast. Although it’s not the way I envisioned some characters in my reading mind, I really respect the variety.
  
• The Special FX crew’s interpretation of the Power. No, it’s not exactly as I pictured it in my minds eye, but it’s pretty f***ing close.
• Dialing back on how bitchy the good women are (Nynaeve, Moraine, Egwene). With all due respect to James Rigney, he really wrote these characters as insufferable for quite a while. Kudos for the show runner(s) and Harriet for the balanced writing for this cast.
• Last, but not least, great job on shortening the story by probably 3 Books already. That being said, please don’t rob us of the amazing battles that occur in the first 3 books.

I feel like of all the changes, that is actually the most necessary (although it wasn't actually murder, since it was clearly accidental in extreme circumstances) and the cleanest change. Essentially all of Perrin's development and backstory in the books is done via internal dialogue that is impossible to put into film. They added this quick change, which took like 2 scenes to completely explain Perrin having a bad/violent temper and he is terrified of losing, and we never really have to see the wife again. It costs almost nothing to the overall story, but gets Perrin's character arc where it needs to be.

 

[RandV]

I feel like of all the changes, that is actually the most necessary (although it wasn't actually murder, since it was clearly accidental in extreme circumstances) and the cleanest change. Essentially all of Perrin's development and backstory in the books is done via internal dialogue that is impossible to put into film. They added this quick change, which took like 2 scenes to completely explain Perrin having a bad/violent temper and he is terrified of losing, and we never really have to see the wife again. It costs almost nothing to the overall story, but gets Perrin's character arc where it needs to be.

We'll see but I think it's also directed at shrinking/altering Perrin's overall story arc. For all the bloat the mid/late series got into, I feel like Perrin's side-side quest was the least important and should be first on the chopping block.

For me, between watching the show and listening to the first audio-book simultaneous, what I probably dislike the most is how at the end of the first episode Morraine just comes out and says 'one of you is the Dragon Reborn!!!', and then the show spends time playing up 'who could it be?'. I suppose it's probably necessary due to much greater time constraints, but it's pretty heavy handed and really short changes the world building.

 

[Osprey]

For me, between watching the show and listening to the first audio-book simultaneous, what I probably dislike the most is how at the end of the first episode Morraine just comes out and says 'one of you is the Dragon Reborn!!!', and then the show spends time playing up 'who could it be?'. I suppose it's probably necessary due to much greater time constraints, but it's pretty heavy handed and really short changes the world building.

As someone who's never read the books, it feels that way to me, too. They're really playing up this mystery and not doing a very good job of it from my perspective.

Spoiler

So far, the story has focused on only three of the four Dragon Reborn candidates and given us reasons to believe that each one could be the one. Then, there's the last candidate that we know the least about, hasn't shown a single sign of having any kind of magical ability or connection and looks like merely a tag-along character while the other three get all of the "he/she could be the one!" attention. Gee, I wonder who the Dragon Reborn will end up being.