The wait is over: Nikishin is on the way

[tarheelhockey]

It was a different era. Plenty of top defensemen racked up PIMs back then. Holding him to today’s standards in that regard is disingenuous.

As for the “bad decision maker” part, that’s just bogus. Again, he was a Norris finalist, led the league in plus-minus, and got Hart votes all while logging heavy minutes at age 23. That doesn’t scream low IQ to me, which honestly seems to be what you’re insinuating. He wasn’t all athleticism or size at all, like you are seemingly trying to suggest.

Irrelevant. How is this relevant to hockey? Especially in a thread about a prospect who’s yet to play an NHL game. You’re grasping at straws here to paint your guy in a favourable light in comparison to one of the greats. So weird.

So this all comes off pretty strongly as you not remembering Chris Pronger in the mid-90s. The amount of criticism directed to him for reckless, sloppy, or otherwise stupid play was not insignificant. The fact that the Whalers felt he wasn’t maturing was not privileged information. His being sent to play for Mike Keenan did not go over the heads of the public.

Go beyond the stat sheet and read some articles from that era, watch some video analysis. Pronger absolutely was a talented meathead (I never said “all size”, he had the hockey skill). I’m not just pulling that out of my ass.

Do you know how he got traded to St Louis? He had a clause in his contract that he was supposed to spend the summer in Hartford training. Instead he went to his GM and said he’d rather go home and “train” on his own. So JR sends Paul Holmgren up to check on him at midsummer, and all he’s doing is hanging around his hometown killing time. The minute he dropped Holmgren at the airport, Holmgren’s on the phone with JR and the trade gets done in a matter of hours. Pronger genuinely didn’t see it coming. He really thought he could just go to his GM and call out of contractually-mandated training, and then go fishing all summer and nothing was going to happen.

He became a different person after Iron Mike and playing with guys like Gretzky, Hawerchuk, MacInnis, etc. That’s the Pronger that people learned to fear, not the one who was minute-munching his way to Ls with dumb penalties and a careless attitude.

The point is that they aren’t at all similar, even stylistically lmao. It’s such a strange comparison. Again, it just seems like you picked Pronger because he’s a tall HOF two-way defenseman, ignoring how unique he was beyond that because you wanted to hype your guy as much as possible lol. Nevermind that Pronger at the same age was already one of the best D in the world. They are nothing alike lol

Nikitin is much closer to a guy like Zaitsev than he is Chris Pronger.

See, the difference between you and me is that if you say Zaitsev’s a comparable, I don’t lose my mind just because they’re not exactly the same guy. That’s how prospect comparables work.

To be clear, I don’t remember Zaitsev ever leading his team in scoring. Nikishin has a totally different caliber of offensive game, scoring at a higher rate than the forward star prospect Demidov. He’s also bigger than Zaitsev, and by all accounts a better positional defender. But yes, they do have some traits in common. Which is how comparables work because you’re never going to make a perfect comparison between a prospect and a guy who’s played a long career already.

 

[Garbageyuk]

scoring at a higher rate than the forward star prospect Demidov.

Lmao did you think you were going to trigger me with this? Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, so I won’t even bother getting into how dumb it is

Aside from that, you aren’t helping your case here, even if all that about Pronger is true. They aren’t similar at all, and the bottom line is that Pronger was already one of the best D in the NHL at the same age, no matter how much you try to downplay him to make Nikishin look favourable in comparison. Just typing that out sounds ridiculous - they are nowhere near the same level at the same age and they don’t/didn’t play alike at all. Like I said, it seems you just wanted a tall two-way HOF D to compare him to in order to hype him up. I doubt you put much thought into it until you started having to defend it.

Lastly, I didn’t even say Nikitin and Zaitsev were very similar. I said Nikitin is closer to Zaitsev stylistically and in terms of accomplishments at the same age than he is to Pronger. Considering they are not at all alike, that isn’t really saying all that much.

Your comparison is like me comparing Demidov to Malkin lol. I’m sure I know what your take is going to be on that. Same thing.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Lmao did you think you were going to trigger me with this? Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, so I won’t even bother getting into how dumb it is

Why would it trigger you? Are you like a big time Demidov fan or something?

I don’t know what the context would be for getting triggered by a stat.

Aside from that, you aren’t helping your case here, even if all that about Pronger is true. They aren’t similar at all, and the bottom line is that Pronger was already one of the best D in the NHL at the same age, no matter how much you try to downplay him to make Nikishin look favourable in comparison. Just typing that out sounds ridiculous - they are nowhere near the same level at the same age and they don’t/didn’t play alike at all. Like I said, it seems you just wanted a tall two-way HOF D to compare him to in order to hype him up. I doubt you put much thought into it until you started having to defend it.

Come on, nowhere did I say that Nikishin is at the same level as Pronger. There’s no possible way you actually read what I posted and came away with that idea. I even clarified later that I’m NOT saying he’s the “best prospect” in the sense of being a future HOF’er, just that he’s the best among them if you put them on the ice at this moment in 2025.

If you thought I was saying he’s literally the next Pronger, that’s on your reading comprehension as nobody else in the thread took it that way.

Lastly, I didn’t even say Nikitin and Zaitsev were very similar. I said Nikitin is closer to Zaitsev stylistically and in terms of accomplishments at the same age than he is to Pronger. Considering they are not at all alike, that isn’t really saying all that much.

Your comparison is like me comparing Demidov to Malkin lol. I’m sure I know what your take is going to be on that. Same thing.

I never said a single word about having the same accomplishments as Pronger. Again you’re coming at me with a lot of heat over points I never even tried to make.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Why would it trigger you? Are you like a big time Demidov fan or something?

I don’t know what the context would be for getting triggered by a stat.




Come on, nowhere did I say that Nikishin is at the same level as Pronger. There’s no possible way you actually read what I posted and came away with that idea. I even clarified later that I’m NOT saying he’s the “best prospect” in the sense of being a future HOF’er, just that he’s the best among them if you put them on the ice at this moment in 2025.

If you thought I was saying he’s literally the next Pronger, that’s on your reading comprehension as nobody else in the thread took it that way.



I never said a single word about having the same accomplishments as Pronger. Again you’re coming at me with a lot of heat over points I never even tried to make.

As I’ve said repeatedly, they are nothing alike, stylistically or otherwise, so the comparison makes very little sense. That is my entire point. I guess I’m asking why you compared them at all, now that you have conceded that Nikishin is not expected to be at the same level at the same age.

What is your basis for the comparison?

 

[tarheelhockey]

As I’ve said repeatedly, they are nothing alike, stylistically or otherwise, so the comparison makes very little sense. That is my entire point. I guess I’m asking why you compared them at all, now that you have conceded that Nikishin is not expected to be at the same level at the same age.

What is your basis for the comparison?

Both tall, rangy defensemen with a very long reach, big heavy slapshot, quick feet for men their size.

Both offensively prolific considering they’re relatively immobile at the point (not like Makar types zipping around the ice) and score a lot of points by hammering shots on net. Both fast in straight lines which makes them dangerous when trailing the rush.

Both strong positional defenders with the ability to wrap up a forward, but what people really notice is the step-up hits that catch wingers looking the other way at the blue line. Not just hitting to take a guy off the puck, but to flatten him.

Both all-situations players. Both playoff-type players.

There will be differences. Nikishin will drop gloves but he doesn’t have the same “ugly” in his game. KHL hockey is different, there’s no need to physically counter a Wilson or Bennett. We don’t know how Nikishin will respond to that. Pronger was a #2 pick and obvious franchise defenseman from day one. The athletic side of the game came easy to him. Nikishin hasn’t tasted his first live fire at the NHL level. He’ll have to adjust to the speed, the processing time, the slimmer margin for error. Most likely he’ll look like a rookie for a while before he comes anywhere near his ceiling. As with all kids, there’s a chance he never quite hits that development curve. We’ll see.

More than anything, they’re both all-situations, offensively gifted, physically intimidating players with #1D upside. Pronger had first ballot HHOF upside which is not the case with Nikishin. But if he hits that 1D ceiling, he’ll be in the mold of a Pronger or Robinson moreso than to a Leetch or Bourque or whoever else.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Both tall, rangy defensemen with a very long reach, big heavy slapshot, quick feet for men their size.

Both offensively prolific considering they’re relatively immobile at the point (not like Makar types zipping around the ice) and score a lot of points by hammering shots on net. Both fast in straight lines which makes them dangerous when trailing the rush.

Both strong positional defenders with the ability to wrap up a forward, but what people really notice is the step-up hits that catch wingers looking the other way at the blue line. Not just hitting to take a guy off the puck, but to flatten him.

Both all-situations players. Both playoff-type players.

There will be differences. Nikishin will drop gloves but he doesn’t have the same “ugly” in his game. KHL hockey is different, there’s no need to physically counter a Wilson or Bennett. We don’t know how Nikishin will respond to that. Pronger was a #2 pick and obvious franchise defenseman from day one. The athletic side of the game came easy to him. Nikishin hasn’t tasted his first live fire at the NHL level. He’ll have to adjust to the speed, the processing time, the slimmer margin for error. Most likely he’ll look like a rookie for a while before he comes anywhere near his ceiling. As with all kids, there’s a chance he never quite hits that development curve. We’ll see.

More than anything, they’re both all-situations, offensively gifted, physically intimidating players with #1D upside. Pronger had first ballot HHOF upside which is not the case with Nikishin. But if he hits that 1D ceiling, he’ll be in the mold of a Pronger or Robinson moreso than to a Leetch or Bourque or whoever else.

In other words, you picked Pronger as a comparison simply because he’s a tall two-way HOF D, just like I said. Funny how your comparisons for Nikishin are all HOF Norris winners. I wonder why.

That rundown you gave could describe a great many D in the league, but you focus on guys like Pronger and Robinson as comparisons.

Nikishin doesn’t hit anywhere near as often as Pronger did, he isn’t anywhere near as physical, and he isn’t mean and nasty like Pronger at all. He hits about as often as a guy like Fehervary - about midway for NHL D.

Also, his offensive upside is not anywhere near guys like Pronger, let alone Robinson or Leetch, so I’m not sure why you keep insisting on comparing him to them. Those guys were putting up similar numbers in the NHL at the same age as Nikishin did in the KHL this year.

I’d say his upside is much closer to guys like the aforementioned Zaitsev, or even guys like Parayko or Bouwmeester than it is to Pronger or Robinson. He is elite offensively in the KHL at age 23, which is great, I’m pretty certain he’ll be a top-4 D in the NHL. But it’s still unlikely that he ever becomes truly elite in the NHL.

Lastly, what’s your take on the Demidov-Malkin comparison, and how did I know you’d avoid that if you could? Lol. Like I said, it’s the same type of thing as what you’re doing here, so I’m interested in hearing your take on it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

In other words, you picked Pronger as a comparison simply because he’s a tall two-way HOF D, just like I said

What the ****?

I just wrote SEVEN PARAGRAPHS and you come back with that remark?

I’m not even reading the rest of that, you’re just trolling in a particularly uncool kind of way.

 

[Garbageyuk]

What the ****?

I just wrote SEVEN PARAGRAPHS and you come back with that remark?

I’m not even reading the rest of that, you’re just trolling in a particularly uncool kind of way.

Comparing Nikishin to Pronger and Robinson before he’s even played a single NHL game is what’s trolling.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Comparing Nikishin to Pronger, Robinson, Leetch, and Bourque before he’s even played a single NHL game is what’s trolling.

Half those guys I literally just said his game does NOT resemble. It’s obvious you’re not reading the posts before responding.

Again you are just being disrespectful at this point. If you didn’t want to discuss in good faith you didn’t have to come in here in post. Not sure what your endgame was here. Have a nice night I guess.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Half those guys I literally just said his game does NOT resemble. It’s obvious you’re not reading the posts before responding.

Again you are just being disrespectful at this point. If you didn’t want to discuss in good faith you didn’t have to come in here in post. Not sure what your endgame was here. Have a nice night I guess.

Edited. The point is you are comparing a 45 point KHL dman to two HOF Norris winners before he’s played a single game in the NHL. And you have the nerve to talk about arguing in good faith lol. And people say Habs fans are bad for the homer stuff.

 

[Garbageyuk]

lol this thread is a shitshow

Habs Canes 2nd round gonna be lit

I seriously doubt the Habs get past the Capitals lol, but I’d love to be wrong.

 

[koyvoo]

Guys, stop fighting.

It’s very upsetting.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Edited. The point is you are comparing a 45 point KHL dman to two HOF Norris winners before he’s played a single game in the NHL. And you have the nerve to talk about arguing in good faith lol. And people say Habs fans are bad for the homer stuff.

I’m not arguing at all. I don’t know what you think is going on here, I’m just here to discuss and share ideas. This isn’t court. There’s no prize to be won. Nobody’s keeping score. It’s just a conversation.

At first I thought it was unintentional when you kept putting words in my mouth, but I see what’s going on here. Not interested.

 

[wunderpanda]

will he be sentimental for kfc? or will he hold a grudge because they rebranded in russia?

 

[Garbageyuk]

I’m not arguing at all. I don’t know what you think is going on here, I’m just here to discuss and share ideas. This isn’t court. There’s no prize to be won. Nobody’s keeping score. It’s just a conversation.

At first I thought it was unintentional when you kept putting words in my mouth, but I see what’s going on here. Not interested.

Lol come on man. How do you not see the irony here? I’m not putting words in your mouth; you are making strawman arguments and focusing on that instead of what I actually said.

“This isn’t court. There’s no prize to be won. Nobody’s keeping score.”

“I never said Nikishin is literally an exact lab-made copy of Pronger.”

Nobody said these things except you lmao. It’s a debate/discussion, you know, the exact point of being on these boards. Someone disagreeing with you and/or debating your points does not constitute disrespect.

I asked you to back up your statements, and all you did is prop up strawman arguments to tear down while ignoring my actual points, and claiming I’m trolling or being “disrespectful”.

Next time don’t say dumb contentious shit if you don’t want to, or are unable to back it up without resorting to the above mentioned tactics. I guess we are done here because you seem to think something is going on that isn’t. Either that, or you are just intentionally claiming it as a deflection tactic. In any case, I’m out. Have a good night (sincerely).

 

[Andrei79]

Canes fans will be happy. Nikishin was a complete draft steal and has every tool needed to become a dominant player. Will definitely follow Carolina during the playoffs.

 

[luiginb]

It's funny how for Habs fans a defender outscoring a forward is now irrelevant, but when we bring up the Hutson/Celebrini comparison it suddenly is relevant.

 

[Ezpz]

It's funny how for Habs fans a defender outscoring a forward is now irrelevant, but when we bring up the Hutson/Celebrini comparison it suddenly is relevant.

He didn't outscore Demidov though.

 

[bud12]

It's funny how for Habs fans a defender outscoring a forward is now irrelevant, but when we bring up the Hutson/Celebrini comparison it suddenly is relevant.

yes because the comparison isnt remotely close to being the same.
Celebrini average 19:54min a game and 3:16min on the pp. Hutson play 22:39min a game and 2:47 min on the pp. Now do the same with Demidov/Nikishin and you will see why it's irrelevant.....

 

[HBK27]

 

[tarheelhockey]

He didn't outscore Demidov though.

In terms of PPG he had a (very) slightly higher average.

 

[Nocashstyle]

In terms of PPG he had a (very) slightly higher average.

Now do Gritsyuk

 

[Ezpz]

In terms of PPG he had a (very) slightly higher average.

Ok do p/60. Demidov likely had the best season in KHL history by that metric. Half of Demidov's games he played 10 minutes or less and had significant stretches of sub-3 minutes. Demidov would have put up 75+ points and had an outside chance to break the all-time single season record if he'd not been leashed all year for refusing an extension. Not to mention the fact that he set the all time rookie scoring record without even being played on the PP. He led SKA in scoring and wasn't on the PP. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?

You can essentially erase 20 games off his total games played and in doing so remove less than 30 minutes total of ice time. Gritsyuk played in 16 less games and had more total ice time than Demidov. Tony Deangelo only played 34 games and likely significantly gapped Demidov's ice time in 65 games.

Even in the playoffs he led the team in scoring despite being dressed in game 1 and playing 0 seconds because Rotenberg was trolling him.

 

[Unsustainable]

This thread is about Nikishin, not everyone else on SKA / KHL / or wherever. Congrats on Demidov, he's a great prospect, and had Necas not screwed us in trade with CBJ, Demidov would be our prospect also.

 

[red devil]