The wait is over: Nikishin is on the way

[tarheelhockey]

Did you ever look at icetime pp/min

Ok do p/60.

Yes, everyone gets that after being bombarded with Demidov propaganda for several pages.

This is like someone saying “Cale Makar has a higher PPG than Auston Matthews this year” and a bunch of Leafs fans clapping back with “lol now do p/60”.

It’s still impressive considering we are comparing a defenseman to a forward.

 

[Boyon90]

Yes, everyone gets that after being bombarded with Demidov propaganda for several pages.

This is like someone saying “Cale Makar has a higher PPG than Auston Matthews this year” and a bunch of Leafs fans clapping back with “lol now do p/60”.

It’s still impressive considering we are comparing a defenseman to a forward.

Makar is the best defense is the league, as been arguably for many years, motthews is one of the best despite injuries, they both were selected within top 4, yet its a silly comparison to do defense vs offense, unless your argue on who is the most useful to its team...

Now nikishin is 3 or 4 year older than demidov, or so, precision over this is not so relevant but a fun fact, yet again, which is the most useful to its team is the sole point of comaprison between 2 arguably good players but from different position , imo

They both have things to prove in the nhl, so thats only that

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I, for one, am entirely unsurprised that habs fans have commandeered this thread. It's a common theme around here lately.

Well op did it by saying this "Alex Nikishin is widely viewed as the best prospect currently outside the NHL". In reality, most rankings have Demidov ahead of Nikishin.

 

[CostaRica]

This thread is about Nikishin, not everyone else on SKA / KHL / or wherever. Congrats on Demidov, he's a great prospect, and had Necas not screwed us in trade with CBJ, Demidov would be our prospect also.

Yes!!! Love reading about prospects and Nikishin will immediately be the Canes 2nd or 3rd best defender.

Those who bring other prospects into the thread ruin a good discussion.

 

[robbieberns]

Well op did it by saying this "Alex Nikishin is widely viewed as the best prospect currently outside the NHL". In reality, most rankings have Demidov ahead of Nikishin.

Who gives a shit? Genuinely. Carolina fans will gladly grant Demidov the title of grand master epic legendary prospect if it means Habs fans can gtfo of this thread and let hockey fans talk about the actual thread topic. I know it’s absolutely unfathomable for Habs fans to consider that other fan bases or just hockey fans in general don’t care about the Canadiens, but I promise you we’re not interested. Go off and create Montreal threads where anyone who is actually interested can go participate.

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Who gives a shit? Genuinely. Carolina fans will gladly grant Demidov the title of grand master epic legendary prospect if it means Habs fans can gtfo of this thread and let hockey fans talk about the actual thread topic. I know it’s absolutely unfathomable for Habs fans to consider that other fan bases or just hockey fans in general don’t care about the Canadiens, but I promise you we’re not interested. Go off and create Montreal threads where anyone who is actually interested can go participate.

If there's a clear misinformation being told in the op, it only makes sense to correct it. It's pretty obvious what was going to happen after he wrote that. So next time tell you friend to not spread a lie if he doesn't want the thread to be derailed?

 

[StreetHawk]

If he doesn't sign soon to burn an elc year (at age 23, elc rules are a 2 year elc contract), does he simply just wait until after Sept 15, when he would be considered "24" and thus only need a 1 year elc deal? I think by then, training camps would have opened.

But, that post just indicates that he's not signing another contract in the KHL. Now, it's a matter of when he signs his NHL deal.

 

[InsideLaineBOOM]

Who gives a shit? Genuinely. Carolina fans will gladly grant Demidov the title of grand master epic legendary prospect if it means Habs fans can gtfo of this thread and let hockey fans talk about the actual thread topic. I know it’s absolutely unfathomable for Habs fans to consider that other fan bases or just hockey fans in general don’t care about the Canadiens, but I promise you we’re not interested. Go off and create Montreal threads where anyone who is actually interested can go participate.

Haha I actually though that this was the Hutson thread or the Demidov thread and was confused on why Habs fans are told to FO

 

[InsideLaineBOOM]

But this is Demidov no?

 

[robbieberns]

If there's a clear misinformation being told in the op, it only makes sense to correct it. It's pretty obvious what was going to happen after he wrote that. So next time tell you friend to not spread a lie if he doesn't want the thread to be derailed?

oh my god dude get over yourself

 

[bleedgreen]

So this all comes off pretty strongly as you not remembering Chris Pronger in the mid-90s. The amount of criticism directed to him for reckless, sloppy, or otherwise stupid play was not insignificant. The fact that the Whalers felt he wasn’t maturing was not privileged information. His being sent to play for Mike Keenan did not go over the heads of the public.

Go beyond the stat sheet and read some articles from that era, watch some video analysis. Pronger absolutely was a talented meathead (I never said “all size”, he had the hockey skill). I’m not just pulling that out of my ass.

Do you know how he got traded to St Louis? He had a clause in his contract that he was supposed to spend the summer in Hartford training. Instead he went to his GM and said he’d rather go home and “train” on his own. So JR sends Paul Holmgren up to check on him at midsummer, and all he’s doing is hanging around his hometown killing time. The minute he dropped Holmgren at the airport, Holmgren’s on the phone with JR and the trade gets done in a matter of hours. Pronger genuinely didn’t see it coming. He really thought he could just go to his GM and call out of contractually-mandated training, and then go fishing all summer and nothing was going to happen.

He became a different person after Iron Mike and playing with guys like Gretzky, Hawerchuk, MacInnis, etc. That’s the Pronger that people learned to fear, not the one who was minute-munching his way to Ls with dumb penalties and a careless attitude.



See, the difference between you and me is that if you say Zaitsev’s a comparable, I don’t lose my mind just because they’re not exactly the same guy. That’s how prospect comparables work.

To be clear, I don’t remember Zaitsev ever leading his team in scoring. Nikishin has a totally different caliber of offensive game, scoring at a higher rate than the forward star prospect Demidov. He’s also bigger than Zaitsev, and by all accounts a better positional defender. But yes, they do have some traits in common. Which is how comparables work because you’re never going to make a perfect comparison between a prospect and a guy who’s played a long career already.

That’s only one half of the story. JR was trying to make a big splash with the Whalers in an attempt to jumpstart a rebuild to get them into the playoffs. Pronger almost got them Selanne instead of Shanny. There was speculation for a couple of weeks so I don’t know that I would characterize the whole thing as “hours” unless they were already talking to teams about Pronger and wanted to have one more meeting with him - then your story happened. I do believe it happened and had an affect in general as I remember hearing it in the past. They were struggling with Pronger in general. He had a dui going on after getting arrested in a separate team related drinking incident which put him on espn leaving a courthouse with his suit jacket draped over his head in embarrassment - this was a team falling apart issue that Pronger just happened to be the face of. He was immature, but he was also very young still. By the time he was Nikishin’s age he was already on the turnaround under Keenan - who Pronger credits the turnaround to.

I think your characterization of meathead goes too far. On the ice he was raw but skilled, he wasn’t remotely the goon he was later as he didn’t really have the strength or confidence yet. He was a beanpole. He didn’t fight much or take an excessive amount of penalties, especially for the early 90’s.

The trade wasnt just about his issues off ice, it was about him being a huge asset and the only thing that was going to get them a star player back. Which he did.

I also struggle with the characterization of Nikishin as a Pronger level player. We on our board have a poster or two over hyping the guy well beyond hyperbole - the board has followed belief. I’ve seen more than one pundit declare Nikishin the best prospect or defenseman outside the league, I don’t think you’re wrong calling him that. I’m just hoping he’s a legit top four relatively soon and I don’t think he’s a true number 1 d prospect until he’s over here and we can see what translates. The KHL isn’t what it was pre-war, and even then it wasn’t a good barometer for how good someone would be in the NHL. He looks great, we’ll see.

In short, Pronger wasn’t quite where you put him and Nikishin’s ceiling isn’t very clear yet. He’s a very good prospect - zero doubt.

Ps….we should be hearing something by now.

Pss…I just saw that post about us negotiating with the team. Likely getting a payout since they can make us wait until the offseason if they want to.

 

[Sombastate]

I am shocked that i came in here to talk about Nikishin, and its just littered with Montreal fans who are insecure. Man, its getting annoying.

Look guys, Demidov is incredible. Hutson is incredible. Reinbacher is likely going to be very good. Please, for the love of French Speaking Jesus, let something not be about you.

Now, Nikishin has been my favorite prospect for a few years. I really hope he does in fact come over. Excited to see him in the show.

 

[Unsustainable]

But this is Demidov no?

Demidov has opinions

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think your characterization of meathead goes too far. On the ice he was raw but skilled, he wasn’t remotely the goon he was later as he didn’t really have the strength or confidence yet. He was a beanpole. He didn’t fight much or take an excessive amount of penalties, especially for the early 90’s.

What I remember of him is that you could count on him to take a penalty that hurt his team pretty much every time it mattered. For a guy who doesn’t fight, it’s not great to be up over 100 PIM every year.

Just as an example to quantify — his rookie year in Hartford, he had 113 PIM. We can deduct 17 from one game against Boston, but the other 96 were ALL minor and double minor penalties. In just one game against Pittsburgh, he had TEN non-offsetting PIM (which has to be close to a record, right?) including slashing, interference, hooking, and a high-sticking double-minor. The Pens scored the GWG on the double-minor, added another PPG for insurance and won 6-4. As I skim through his game logs that year, his lack of discipline comes up over and over as he takes penalties leading to game-altering goals or killing any attempt at a comeback.

That’s the Pronger I remember from his early days. Not a goon, just very reckless and undisciplined, trying to be a bull in a China shop when the league was full of smarter bulls.

I also struggle with the characterization of Nikishin as a Pronger level player.

Nobody said he was a Pronger level player nor should that be taken seriously.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Strange that KHL contracts last until June 1 when the KHL playoffs is done in late April.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Strange that KHL contracts last until June 1 when the KHL playoffs is done in late April.

How is that any different than NHL contracts expiring on July 30th?

 

[FerrisRox]

It's funny how for Habs fans a defender outscoring a forward is now irrelevant, but when we bring up the Hutson/Celebrini comparison it suddenly is relevant.

I just read this whole thread... Did I miss the part where a "Habs fan" said a defenseman outscoring a forward is irrelevant?

It would be a very strange thing for anyone to have said mainly because Demidov, the forward, outscored Nikishin, the defenceman.

If you're going to make things up and attribute them to an entire fanbase, here's a tip: at least make up something that is even partially based in reality. You made up a quote for Habs fans commenting on a situation that doesn't even exist.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Nobody said he was a Pronger level player nor should that be taken seriously.

I agree, Pronger level is his floor

 

[Price is Wright]

I hope both Montreal and Carolina get their best player outside of the NHL and they love them very much.

 

[FerrisRox]

If there's a clear misinformation being told in the op, it only makes sense to correct it.

How could it be "clear misinformation?" There is no "correct" answer for who the top player outside the NHL is. You are not "correcting" anyone by ranking Demidov ahead of him. That's just your opinion which you seem to be confusing with fact.

 

[westc2]

Just watched a highlight video. I wonder if the KHL is more lenient with "targeting the head" calls than the NHL, because some of his hits are vicious!

 

[Mrb1p]

Demidov is coming, so gotta expect the 2nd best player outside the NHL to also be.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I just read this whole thread... Did I miss the part where a "Habs fan" said a defenseman outscoring a forward is irrelevant?

It would be a very strange thing for anyone to have said mainly because Demidov, the forward, outscored Nikishin, the defenceman.

If you're going to make things up and attribute them to an entire fanbase, here's a tip: at least make up something that is even partially based in reality. You made up a quote for Habs fans commenting on a situation that doesn't even exist.

FWIW, original comment was that Nikishin scored at a (very slightly) higher PPG than Demidov, which was expressed as “scored at a higher rate” rather than “outscored”.

A large part of this thread is people either misreading comments, or reading in bad faith, and proceeding to argue against something that wasn’t actually said. Then others pile on, and it becomes an argument about nonsense.

Honestly the purpose of the thread was just to talk about this player. The whole thing about putting him against Demidov has derailed what should have been a more positive atmosphere.

 

[InsideLaineBOOM]

Demidov is coming, so gotta expect the 2nd best player outside the NHL to also be.

In addition to this, Jesse Puljujärvi is coming as well, sort of: