Player Discussion The Underrated Brock Boeser

[Johnsie19]

Bergeron and Mark Stone. These two players are (and were) down right slow.

Are you disputing they were in their primes the best players in the league at controlling aka driving play?

I was literally asking the question? Looking for an answer if you have one.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I agree but the poster asked for it.

I think more players should try and get themselves in better scoring position to take higher danger shots.


Nah we're giving the $7M to Lindholm.

Woosh....

I was literally asking the question? Looking for an answer if you have one.

And I just wanted to make sure if I get this right.

You are actually asking what stats prove that Mark Stone and Bergeron were the best play drivers in the league in their prime...?

 

[Johnsie19]

Woosh....


And I just wanted to make sure if I get this right.

You are actually asking what stats prove that Mark Stone and Bergeron were the best play drivers in the league in their prime...?

Yup. It's ok to say you don't know also. I'm legit looking for which stats people use.

 

[F A N]

Woosh....

Woosh… indeed…

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yup. It's ok to say you don't know also. I'm legit looking for which stats people use.

Sorry.

I have no interest doing any leg work for you on this. Its like trying to discuss ancient history with someone and he asks you to prove Rome existed.

Go here and look up Bergeron and Stone.

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[Johnsie19]

Sorry.

I have no interest doing any leg work for you on this. Its like trying to discuss ancient history with someone and he asks you to prove Rome existed.

Go here and look up Bergeron and Stone.

NHL Stats, History, Scores, Standings, Playoffs, Schedule & Records | Hockey-Reference.com

Get all the latest information about hockey stats, standings, scores, games, awards, records, leaders, rookies and more for both hockey teams and players on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Hahah this is so funny dude. You obviously have no answer, and thats fine.

Wait you wouldn't be able to prove Rome existed? Wouldn't you just say aqueducts, the Colosseum, etc and move on.

This might be the worst analogy I've ever heard. You're saying it's so easy that you can't be bothered right? like rather than just say "well I look at corsi, shot attempts, zone entries" it's easier to act like I've put you out by asking what you personally like to use.

I'll try one last time though for fun. Which stats on hockey reference do you like for play driving?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Wait you wouldn't be able to prove Rome existed? Wouldn't you just say aqueducts, the Colosseum, etc and move on.

Wooosh

I would slowly walk away backwards from the idiot.

I'll try one last time though for fun. Which stats on hockey reference do you like for play driving?

Corsi fenwic xG zone starts etc.

Now you show stats that prove skating fast is what driving play is all about.

 

[Johnsie19]

Wooosh

I would slowly walk away backwards from the idiot.


Corsi fenwic xG zone starts etc.

Now you show stats that prove skating fast is what driving play is all about.

Yeesh don't blame me I was the one who had to suffer through that terrible analogy.

Haha ok so you use Corsi, Fenwick and zone starts? why was that so difficult for you to say? Somehow asking for which stats you like on play driving sent you into a tailspin.

How does zone starts help btw?

I don't know that there is a stat on fast skating relative to play driving that is readily available. If for instance you like corsi though you can see some of the top corsi rel guys are the best skaters (Hughes, Panarin, Kyrou, Barzal, Larkin, Thomas, McDavid). For zone exits and entries it's pretty self evident that skating is of huge benefit on those.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeesh don't blame me I was the one who had to suffer through that terrible analogy.

Dont blame me blame Richard Dawkins.

I just find all your opinions highly suspectable at best if you dont know Bergeron and Stone drive play at the highest level.

Haha ok so you use Corsi, Fenwick and zone starts? why was that so difficult for you to say? Somehow asking for which stats you like on play driving sent you into a tailspin.

Because its not all I use.

How does zone starts help btw?

It affects shots shots for and against to an extent and more importantly gives you a glimpse in to deployment of the players. You can generally draw the conclusion that players with more Dzone starts are getting harder deployment.

I don't know that there is a stat on fast skating relative to play driving that is readily available. If for instance you like corsi though you can see some of the top corsi rel guys are the best skaters (Hughes, Panarin, Kyrou, Barzal, Larkin, Thomas, McDavid). For zone exits and entries it's pretty self evident that skating is of huge benefit on those.

And Buchnevich, B.Tkachuck and Lafreniere etc.

Is there a player on that list that does not have elite hockey IQ?



The Top xG guys this year include Bouchard, Ekholm and Marcus Pettersson.


Skating fast is a really handy skill to have in the league today. Obviously. But there are so many examples of players able to drive play with sub average skating that you should just ignore the fact that Boeser isnt fast in your calculus and just look at the results on the ice.

 

[Johnsie19]

Dont blame me blame Richard Dawkins.

I just find all your opinions highly suspectable at best if you dont know Bergeron and Stone drive play at the highest level.

You are as stubborn as Sam Harris my horseman friend.

You said they were the best in the league and I simply asked what metrics you use. Didn't even contest the statement. Somehow this caused a hissy fit that we are still unpacking.

Because its not all I use.

Is it like your Mamma's raggu recipe, you ain't gonna share da recipe wit no one?

It affects shots shots for and against to an extent and more importantly gives you a glimpse in to deployment of the players. You can generally draw the conclusion that players with more Dzone starts are getting harder deployment.

Yup I'd agree.

And Buchnevich, B.Tkachuck and Lafreniere etc.

Is there a player on that list that does not have elite hockey IQ?



The Top xG guys this year include Bouchard, Ekholm and Marcus Pettersson.


Skating fast is a really handy skill to have in the league today. Obviously. But there are so many examples of players able to drive play with sub average skating that you should just ignore the fact that Boeser isnt fast in your calculus and just look at the results on the ice.

All these guys are above average skaters. Buch and Laf in particular.

I'm glad you mention those guys because you think they'd be anywhere near the top without McDavid, Crosby? I actually don't know Pettersson's game as well but he's not a top pairing guy I don't think. Bouchard and Ekholm are very good players benefiting from playing with the best player. Bouch isn't even in Hughes' stratosphere. Ekholm is a different kind of dman.

It is very difficult to drive play in the NHL if you don't skate well thats true. There may be exceptions to this but not many. As for Boeser's on ice results I watch every game. He doesn't handle the puck a lot. He gets out of the way, tries to get open, drives the net. Sure he makes himself available to keep plays alive but he's not the driver. He wasn't when he played with the Sedins, he wasn't when he played on the lotto line, and he isn't with Miller now. And again to reiterate this doesn't make him a bad hockey player. He's a very good hockey player. It just means he isn't a catalyst. This is a downfall of the stats I'm aware of. It's difficult to parse who on the line is the driver.

And to get to my ultimate point, he is a shooter that shot well above his career shooting numbers. They are almost certainly unsustainable. So do you want this player at say 8 mil when he's scoring 28-30-58. The odd yr 35 goals maybe, the odd yr 22. I don't. I'd prefer some younger players or picks only because the cap is such an issue in the NHL. I don't see Boeser as an efficient contract if you're paying him like a 35-40 goal scorer.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You are as stubborn as Sam Harris my horseman friend.

Aww.. that is si cute.

You said they were the best in the league and I simply asked what metrics you use. Didn't even contest the statement. Somehow this caused a hissy fit that we are still unpacking.

Its not a hissy fit.

Lets just end this. You are not worth my time.

 

[beckstreaker07]

Update on Brock:

 

[Siludin]

The winger signings yesterday put Boeser in more of a hot-seat position in his contract year than he was before. It's going to be interesting to see what they do with him.
I think we will see media reports of Boeser getting shopped through Nov/Dec if the team is pressing for a team-friendly extension. I could see the Canucks trying to target a defenseman in a Boeser swap.
edit: noting the Pavel Buchnevich re-signing of $8 year x 6m @ 29 years old (Buchnevich was going into his final year of his contract in 2024/2025 @ $5.8m). I think Boeser's agents will be asking for around the same money and I am guessing the Canucks will be looking at something closer to his current deal.

 

[Nick Lang]

Update on Brock:

It's a huge year for Boeser. Contract year, but also coming off a career season where he seemed to unlock a higher level of play. Really have to hope he can put all this blood clot stuff in the past and come into the season 100% ready to go.

If he has a good season, 35-40 again, or even 30+ he's going to be looking at a retirement deal. He'll be 28 and a half by then. Probably $8 - $9 mil with significant term. Is that something we're willing to look at?

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Got to keep the good pieces together long term on good contracts to be successful, resigning Boeser is a priority. Someone said if you can have an excellent core 4 locked up long term for under 40M your in great shape