Player Discussion The Underrated Brock Boeser

[strattonius]

Does not transition well at all. And not worth 8 mil he'll be asking. Sell high or complain we should have for 7 yrs.

He's a great positional player with good passing and high IQ. I thought Boeser was good in the neutral zone all year not sure what you were watching.

 

[KaraLupin]

Blood clotting concerning, hopefully they figure out the cause in off season and doesn't become a recurring thing

 

[Johnsie19]

Ok. For context, Boeser's playoff shooting percentage has him ranked #17. In comparison, RNH is at 25%, Bennett is 23.1%. Stone and Stamkos shot over 30%. Joshua shot 44.4%



Ya sorry the attachments didn't work. They do show Boeser shoots a lot closer to the net.



Again, Boeser shot closer to the net this season. This is just factual.



I don't see the issue. He has shot 16% or over 3 times in his career. His shot per game this season is also his 5th lowest. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that things will balance out.

I've said this before, a lot of posters here are operating under some outdated ideas on shooting percentage. Like Kopitar shot a career high 19.5% this season. Kopitar's shooting percentage the past two seasons is actually 2 of his highest 3 totals in his entire career.

The context was that Boeser was 6th in the league in shooting % throughout the season. It is just an unsustainably high shooting % guys like Matthews can only dream of. The playoffs are just a smaller samples size so there are more outliers. Pettersson shot at 4.5% and Miller at 10% those will regress as well.

The crazy part is 4 Canucks are in the top 8. Joshua (2nd), Hoglander (5th), Boeser (6th), Miller (8th). So there is a regression coming. And no I don't believe Tocchet just turns everyone's shooting % up 5% points because of his coaching.

Boeser is shooting closer than Pettersson is what I assumed it showed? Is he shooting closer than his own previous seasons? And are they from spots that you'd expect to see a 5% increase in shooting %? I realize those answers are probably not findable for us amateurs.

I agree Boeser shot 16% in the past but he was also a much better shooter in his early days and played with the Sedins. He could beat goalies clean with regularity. Remember Matt Murray. Ever since the back injury he's never moved that same nor has he shot the same. Kudos to him he's developed other ways to score but I can't see him hovering around 20% again. Even at 16% thats 32 goals, call it maybe 30 assists. Do you wanna pay 8 mil for 60 points non play driver? I don't.

Kopitars shooting % the last three yrs has gone from 19, 16, 9. And he's taken less shots each yr. So it's a different case. Boeser at 9% is an 18 goal scorer. This market would destroy him for that. And it'd be the same level outlier as we saw this yr just on the negative side of the mean.

To put it generously he's a 30+30 60 point guy give or take 5-10 points any give yr. This was his outlier high scoring season.

Also how do you format your response the way you do where you respond to each quote? I like how you did that.

He's a great positional player with good passing and high IQ. I thought Boeser was good in the neutral zone all year not sure what you were watching.

He's an ok passer for a 1st liner. His hockey IQ is quite good I'll agree with that. In what way do you mean he was good in the neutral zone? Skating the puck?

 

[strattonius]

He's an ok passer for a 1st liner. His hockey IQ is quite good I'll agree with that. In what way do you mean he was good in the neutral zone? Skating the puck?

He makes good decisions in the neutral zone.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Ok. For context, Boeser's playoff shooting percentage has him ranked #17. In comparison, RNH is at 25%, Bennett is 23.1%. Stone and Stamkos shot over 30%. Joshua shot 44.4%

Small sample sizes.

Ya sorry the attachments didn't work. They do show Boeser shoots a lot closer to the net.



Again, Boeser shot closer to the net this season. This is just factual.

Ok. Every player on our team should do this next season for all their shots.

I don't see the issue. He has shot 16% or over 3 times in his career. His shot per game this season is also his 5th lowest. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that things will balance out.

I've said this before, a lot of posters here are operating under some outdated ideas on shooting percentage. Like Kopitar shot a career high 19.5% this season. Kopitar's shooting percentage the past two seasons is actually 2 of his highest 3 totals in his entire career.

Ok. Lets go get Kopitar then. He is a 19.5% shooter from here on out.

 

[Johnsie19]

He makes good decisions in the neutral zone.

Like he gets out of the way of Hughes and MIller lugging the puck? Dumps it in if he ever has it?

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Like he gets out of the way of Hughes and MIller lugging the puck? Dumps it in if he ever has it?

Or maybe it’s the other way around, he does all the little things right that allow them to lug the puck in. How did Miller’s line look without Boeser in game 7? Boeser was the best Canuck in the playoffs, excellent 2 way player.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

He's a great positional player with good passing and high IQ. I thought Boeser was great in the neutral zone all year not sure what you were watching.

Agreed, doesn’t make mistakes. Miller, Hughes, Pettersson etc. all have their occasional blunders, but you rarely ever see that from Boeser, phenomenal 2-way player. That’s on top of clutch goal scoring, Big Game Brock going for 50 next season.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Like he gets out of the way of Hughes and MIller lugging the puck? Dumps it in if he ever has it?

He breaks up passes.

He makes the right play to move the puck.

You know what they mean.

There is more to transitioning the puck than skating fasty fast.

 

[Johnsie19]

Or maybe it’s the other way around, he does all the little things right that allow them to lug the puck in. How did Miller’s line look without Boeser in game 7? Boeser was the best Canuck in the playoffs, excellent 2 way player.

Sorry but thats not a unicorn type skill to simply skate up your wing without the puck.

They did about as bad as they did the game before with Boeser.

Agree he was good. in the playoffs though. Not knocking him even as a player.My point is his value is at an all time high. There is a ton of evidence to suggest what he did this yr isn't sustainable and yet he needs a new contract and will want to be paid like a 40 goal scorer, which I beleive he'll never get to again based on the numbers.

It's a market opportunity at worst and a bullet dodged at best to trade him before this next contract.

 

[Johnsie19]

He breaks up passes.

He makes the right play to move the puck.

You know what they mean.

There is more to transitioning the puck than skating fasty fast.

Ya I know but the highly sought after skill is being able to transition the puck with both your feet and hands. Most NHL players can make a pass and get in a passing lane. Only a select few can drive play. Which in invaluable because you can put them on any line. They don't rely on other players to get them the puck. For some shooters maybe it's worth it. For Boeser I don't believe he is that elite of a finisher that it is. Especially when you consider an 8+ mill long term deal.

 

[strattonius]

Like he gets out of the way of Hughes and MIller lugging the puck? Dumps it in if he ever has it?

Stop asking stupid rink-a-dink questions like you're somehow exposing my opinion.

If you're against 8M long term for Boeser so we can re-allocate CAP, I think that's a real possibility our management explores in the future - I don't have a problem with that. The issue you're having with most posters is your disingenuous analysis of Boeser's game to try to convince everyone he's a horrible mistake.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Ya I know but the highly sought after skill is being able to transition the puck with both your feet and hands. Most NHL players can make a pass and get in a passing lane. Only a select few can drive play. Which in invaluable because you can put them on any line. They don't rely on other players to get them the puck. For some shooters maybe it's worth it. For Boeser I don't believe he is that elite of a finisher that it is. Especially when you consider an 8+ mill long term deal.

You keep using the term "drive play" but it does not mean skating with the puck.

It means generating puck control for your team. Boeser does this. He has done this all his career with the canucks apart from the time he was mentally strained by his father slowly and painfully passing.

 

[Johnsie19]

Stop asking stupid rink-a-dink questions like you're somehow exposing my opinion.

If you're against 8M long term for Boeser so we can re-allocate CAP, I think that's a real possibility our management explores in the future - I don't have a problem with that. The issue you're having with most posters is your disingenuous analysis of Boeser's game to try to convince everyone he's a horrible mistake.

I think your attitude kind of sums up a lot of people's response to the idea of trading Boeser. You're emotional about it because granted he's a great dude and you like the player and on and on.

Sorry for the goofball questions I thought most people would know what play driving is. And what it isn't.

Which part of my analysis has been disingenuous?

I've been pretty open with my reasoning and referred to the data as well. I've also pretty clearly agreed he had a great season, great playoffs, is sound defensively. I just think if he doesn't score 30+ at 8 mil people will be calling him out as an inefficient contract or worse. He doesn't do enough outside of scoring to warrant that money.

People pilfered Miller last yr for 82 points leading into his 8 mil contract.

 

[Johnsie19]

You keep using the term "drive play" but it does not mean skating with the puck.

It means generating puck control for your team. Boeser does this. He has done this all his career with the canucks apart from the time he was mentally strained by his father slowly and painfully passing.

Ya no that's what it means. In simplest terms it's how much do you possess the puck. Skating with it, making plays, protecting, creating space with dekes or feints. Quinn Hughes is an example of maybe the best play driver in the league.

Boeser can make a few plays because he's smart and plays with good players but he'll never be a top play driver because he just doesn't have the speed or mobility.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Ya no that's what it means. In simplest terms it's how much do you possess the puck. Skating with it, making plays, protecting, creating space with dekes or feints. Quinn Hughes is an example of maybe the best play driver in the league.

Boeser can make a few plays because he's smart and plays with good players but he'll never be a top play driver because he just doesn't have the speed or mobility.

Disagree.

Mark Stone and Bergeron were down right slow players who in their prime were the best play drivers in the league.

 

[theguardianII]

It's a market opportunity at worst and a bullet dodged at best to trade him before this next contract.

Agree.
Strike while the iron is hot.

There never was any guarantee this group would stick together, not under real hockey management where winning games is more important than winning hearts.

Most teams I think that would be interested and have lots of assets aren't changing but then maybe the return expected should not be too high. The season before this one they couldn't give him away without retention so take that into account.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Agree.
Strike while the iron is hot.

Dont you mean sell while the value is high?

There never was any guarantee this group would stick together, not under real hockey management where winning games is more important than winning hearts.

Most teams I think that would be interested and have lots of assets aren't changing but then maybe the return expected should not be too high. The season before this one they couldn't give him away without retention so take that into account.

 

[Johnsie19]

Disagree.

Mark Stone and Bergeron were down right slow players who in their prime were the best play drivers in the league

Yup speed is not the only useful skill in play driving. It's one of the more important ones with agility, hands, vision, puck handling, hockey sense.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yup speed is not the only useful skill in play driving. It's one of the more important ones with agility, hands, vision, puck handling, hockey sense.

So explain how players who dont possess speed can be the best in the world at play driving?

 

[Else Ermine]

I love Brock and want him to be a career Canuck on fair contracts but think Johnsie19 is making a reasonable assessment of what his play brings. Are most posters here expecting him to consistently produce more than say 30g 35a per year? I'd say that's a season you'd be happy with.

Sentiment aside, is Brock "worth" more than Lindholm?

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I love Brock and want him to be a career Canuck on fair contracts but think Johnsie19 is making a reasonable assessment of what his play brings. Are most posters here expecting him to consistently produce more than say 30g 35a per year? I'd say that's a season you'd be happy with.

Sentiment aside, is Brock "worth" more than Lindholm?

I think if he consistently puts up 30ish goals/60ish points, that would be excellent value. The fact that he's a high character guy who performs in the playoffs and who has really rounded out his two-way game to be a reliable, trust worthy player is excellent. I would also prefer he be a career Canuck - I like likeable guys who also perform.

Now, what's the price tag on that? No idea - the winger market went totally stagnant for several years with the flat cap, but I imagine that's going to change this year and next with the cap rising.

 

[Johnsie19]

So explain how players who dont possess speed can be the best in the world at play driving?

Which stats are using when you say they're the best in the world at play driving?

I think I literally listed 5 in the previous post right.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Which stats are using when you say they're the best in the world at play driving?

I think I literally listed 5 in the previous post right.

Bergeron and Mark Stone. These two players are (and were) down right slow.

Are you disputing they were in their primes the best players in the league at controlling aka driving play?

 

[F A N]

Small sample sizes.

I agree but the poster asked for it.

Ok. Every player on our team should do this next season for all their shots.

I think more players should try and get themselves in better scoring position to take higher danger shots.

Ok. Lets go get Kopitar then. He is a 19.5% shooter from here on out.

Nah we're giving the $7M to Lindholm.