Blue Jays Discussion: The trade deadline has passed. Time to see what this can do (most acquisitions expected to be present Thursday in Minnesota)

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
It isn't the Hall of Statistics or the Hall of Career WAR.

The playoffs matter. Hugely. They're what people remember. Dominating in big games to win a championship is exponentially more important than playing well in the regular season with your team 15 games out.

Every sports HOF is like this. You can complain about it all you want, but it's the way the world works. And it sucks for guys who played on bad teams but again ... that's the way the world works.

It's absurd to pretend the playoffs somehow don't exist. The fact that Morris had two 'Conn Smythe-level' playoffs changes his legacy hugely compared to if he was the same pitcher and those years didn't happen.

It's not pretending the playoffs don't exist, it's not using the playoffs to prop up the case of a person who wouldn't otherwise get nearly the same attention.

I also kind of laugh at "it isn't the hall of statistics" when a great many cases even in the old days were built on statistics that the old guard were comfortable with instead of new ones. 3,000 hits, 200 wins, 500 hrs, whatever else.

stats matter until they don't
context matters until it doesn't
'value' matters until it gets used to defend a player not deemed good enough in other regards.
character matters until it doesn't

It's a moving target that means whatever the people voting players in want it to mean in order to get the players they want in.

Lance Berkman has a WS win, is a noted playoff performer, and had a Morris-esque case of "hall of the very good who you might argue HOF merits on" for his regular season career. He's very much in the mold of Jack Morris' HOF case.

He dropped off the ballot in his first year.

Orel Hershiser has MVPs in the WS, both LCS, a Cy Young and ticks some traditional compiling stat boxes like 200 wins.

His best performance on any HOF ballot was just over 11% of the vote. He later fell off the ballot and was eventually re-evaluated by the Veterans Committee and denied there (the same Veterans' committee that elected everyone's favorite dead horse of a "how the hell is he in the HOF?" candidate, Harold Baines.

Carlos Beltran is considered by some to be a borderline candidate who might not make it even if you ignore his potential contributions to the Astros' sign-stealing scandal. He was a great playoff performer.

Gary Sheffield was a strong playoff performer too, especially LCS/World Series games. he also notched 500 dingers and nearly hit .300 for his career while averaging 100 RBIs a year (I acknowledge that RBIs are a garbage stat for gauging personal performance but the HOF likes it, so here we are). He'll likely never come close to sniffing the HOF because reasons and probably also in part because he was kind of a knob.

HOF credentials get dressed up in this "I know it when I see it" vagaries with regards to any aspect of potential value as a means of protecting the fact that it's horribly inconsistently applied and is subject to the whims of people who will screech loudly about what the criteria aren't without being able to define what they are in a meaningfully repeatable way.
 
Orel should be in the hall as far as i'm concerned given the criteria. One of the best pitchers from the 80s. Great regular season and playoff performer, 200 wins, 2000+ Ks. A guy who unlike Dave Stieb, didn't get screwed out of a Cy Young because of voters basing it on crap that didn't matter.

If the old guard loves to beat themselves off to Jack Morris and his playoff "legacy" then Orel should have been a shoo in several times over.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but if not for that Game 7 performance in the 91 World Series, Morris isn't anywhere close to the hall. Better pitchers have been kept out with more.
 
i don't think i would like the jays to do anything longer then 10 year deals.
I don't know, as much as a 10+ year deal could blow up in the team's face, and relatively early in the deal (ie. Tatis Jr.), if the Jays were to lock up Vlad Jr. to a 12- to 14-year deal tomorrow that takes him practically to retirement, I'd be beyond thrilled.
 
It isn't the Hall of Statistics or the Hall of Career WAR.

The playoffs matter. Hugely. They're what people remember. Dominating in big games to win a championship is exponentially more important than playing well in the regular season with your team 15 games out.

Every sports HOF is like this. You can complain about it all you want, but it's the way the world works. And it sucks for guys who played on bad teams but again ... that's the way the world works.

It's absurd to pretend the playoffs somehow don't exist. The fact that Morris had two 'Conn Smythe-level' playoffs changes his legacy hugely compared to if he was the same pitcher and those years didn't happen.
Not sure this fits with the rest. The value of playoffs vs regular season is one thing, but waving off voter apathy to correct mistakes is the same as saying the hall has zero value in any sense. Sure, unintelligent people can vote for the hall in all sports, but that doesn't make their vote intelligent.
 
It really does seem like this team lacks focus sometimes.

They went into that Yankees series with the whole world telling them they needed to have it. Not only did they have it, they outplayed the Yankees up and down the field all series.

Riding the high there they went in Boston and won a couple of nailbiters to keep the train rolling and spirits high.

Presumably because the Angels are trash/not a divisional rival they almost too confident and have now lost the series.

I dont know if I can be too mad since Shohei pitched today but the other game was also kinda bad.

Can't be giving up easy W's even if you're pretty comfortably in playoff position rn. Baltimore is still just on the outside and I have a feeling they're going to fight right up until the final days of the year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hockeywiz542
So I was at today’s game. I’m moving to Seattle in a few weeks for a new job, so this’ll be my last home game in a while. Imagine waiting outside since 10am and even going downtown on a day like today with the most anticipated Jays game/giveaway happening on the same day as FanExpo. An absolute shitshow.

Just to watch the Jays put up… that performance. Yikes. Well, I’ll be at all 3 games in Pittsburgh next weekend. See y’all there, I guess.
 
Orioles on the verge of beating the astos again. They just might make the playoffs. The jays better get it together. Those games vs tampa and orioles will be huge games next month. Seattle has it really easy with their schedule.
 
This team is so inconsistent offensively and so sloppy defensively. Not to mention the pitching, where we've got one and a half consistent starters. Nothing about this team screams "contender" like so many in the media proclaimed and how the players spoke. Team got high off the smell of their own farts and now can't do any better than play .500 ball.

If the worst case scenario happens and we miss the playoffs the entire coaching staff needs to be let go (yes, including precious Pete) and Shatkins need to be on notice. This is unacceptable for all the money being spent on this team.
 
Josh Hader might legitimately be cooked.

.1 IP against the Royals: 6 ER, 5 H, 2 Walks.

Brings his season era up to over 6 and his ERA with the Padres to a breathtaking 23



A rare lose-lose trade. Hader has been trash and the Brewers clubhouse still hasn't recovered from the morale tank the move brought on.
 
Last edited:
There aren't many things in sports more infuriating than inconsistency.

Totally unprovoked Stripling slander 😤

You've got a bizarre definition of slander...Then again, this is the forum where pointing out Vladdy hits too many grounders is viewed as "hate", nevermind the fact that has been proven true over the course of the season.

I've been cheerleading the guy all season. I picked him as the guy most likely to outperform in the 5 slot over Kikuchi and Ryu when everyone else was poo-pooing all over him at the beginning of the season. Because, you know, "best over performer" is one of the categories in my season list?
 
Last edited:
So how many years until Munetaka Murakami is posted? Because lets just throw all the money at that guy please. Absolute f***ing monster.
It's probably going to be a while. The Swallows are a good team with championship aspirations for the next few years. The moment him or Roki Sasaki are posted the front office better be ready to go all in.
 
36 games left in the season. Playing .500 will get us to a record of 86-76. Let’s hope we can do better than that. A record of 21-15 the rest of the way would put us at 89-73. That’s likely good enough to get in. The first wildcard spot is where we want to be, but there are no guarantees. Hell, the playoffs aren’t a guarantee at this point, but in the end, I think we get there.

It’s been a frustrating season, because I really think this team is better than their record shows. This is a team that should be 15-20 games above the .500 mark in my mind, but they’re not. Bo, Teoscar and Berrios were better last year than this year. Anyone care to theorize as to why that is? Springer is great when he plays, but he has a hard time staying healthy.

The team strikes out too much, doesn’t walk enough and leaves too many men on base. How many of our problems can we blame on the manager, hitting coach and pitching coach? I’m not sure, so any thoughts on that would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad