The Three Things Ruining the NHL Especially Canadian Teams

[seanlinden]

I think the extent of difference after Bettman came in and the changes that were made to the league have certainly made it challenging for Canadian teams to build good teams. The cap was the nail in the coffin because tax variances. You can look at expansion teams and tax rates and see less and less Canadian teams in deep runs for the Cup. It's a thing.

You realize that before the cap, only 2 of the Canadian teams could actually compete / contend with the big US markets, right?

The Cap is what made a team like Winnipeg viable.

 

[Stephen]

Rogers is taking ownership in June I think. Why does that new owner need to be saddled in with a mess made by something a previous owner created?

It needs to change not only for Canada but for fan interest. Big trades are fun in sports and this cap business is all a scam. They know about the tax angle as well and how it negatively impacts Canada too.

I don't know the answer. Maybe it's 5 year term limits. Maybe a cap kicker exemption for luxury tax that gets automatically adjusted if the high tax contract is traded to a low tax area.

Maybe it has to be like. You have a 10m contract in the lowest tax district. Normalized for Toronto you now make 12m or 11.5m in NY but your official cap is 10m

Rogers is also part of the previous/existing ownership group.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The luxury tax would have to be weighted for taxes though. The player themselves need to be paid more while in a certain town. Then some players would flock to high tax, sign and demand a trade with their new overpay.

Do EXECS not have families?
Politicians? Sales people?
Specialists?
Professionals?
Musicians?
Actors?

The amount of money being earned exceeds that of most the above people who have harder jobs. It is absolutely silly to think that being a well paid pro athlete should come without sacrifice.

They have the means to fly back to family whenever they need. Their spouses know what they are getting into.

Families is a non excuse.

FYI, the way employment law works in Ontario, to release any of the professions you named, you have to pay out severance and the more qualified the person is (like a professional hockey player), the higher the severance. As a small business owner, I don't like it but those are the court established rules. It's actually not much different than the NHL buyout rules.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Can't think of a time a Sales person was traded form one company to another and had to move across North America tbh.

Correct. They would just be fired and free to go find new employment.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You realize that before the cap, only 2 of the Canadian teams could actually compete / contend with the big US markets, right?

The Cap is what made a team like Winnipeg viable.

What if I don't care if Winnipeg is viable? Either make it work or don't. It's not my team's problem. And you're wrong anyway. Calgary, Vancouver (x2) both made it to the Cup final in the 10 years preceding the salary cap, unlike the 2 teams I think you're talking about.

 

[thewave]

Gary Bet99man has said taxes are going to be looked at in the new CBA

 

[therealkoho]

The taxes thing can only be solved internally by the NHL. There isn't a government anywhere in the world that would give concessions on the taxes of millionaires and survive the next election, with the exception of the USA of course.

I for one, Leafs fan or not, would be livid if the government gave those kind of concessions to a multimillionaire athlete when there are people in the country homeless, struggling to keep a roof over their head or put food on the table.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I for one, Leafs fan or not, would be livid if the government gave those kind of concessions to a multimillionaire athlete when there are people in the country homeless, struggling to keep a roof over their head or put food on the table.

While I agree with you, as an advocate for the homeless, the sad fact of the matter from my experience suggests the exact opposite would occur.

 

[thewave]

While I agree with you, as an advocate for the homeless, the sad fact of the matter from my experience suggests the exact opposite would occur.

You have to look at Athletes like ambassadors to the sports we play and Canada itself. Unfortunately it may not be fair to everyone else but what athletes do do is promote national pride and encouragement for other athletes like future Olympians. There has to be a path for Canadians in some respects to make it after sport too.

I think it's worthy of a special tax code at the very least. I want Canadians to make it here and everywhere to promote the good name of our nation.

For instance, we advertise in other nations to come visit Canada but some of our best selling points come from the athletes like the 2010 Olympics where the world watched us beat the U.S in Gold medal count. It was a heart warming story the showcased Canada

Lastly. Say a program like this costs 400m in tax revenue. Does it not make sense to make it up selling oil to the US at closer to actual market value? What are we giving now? 30% discount? Make it 25% and we have surplus on that program. Rob Peter to pay Paul sometimes. You have to.

Perhaps Canadian athletes could be given the tax exemption with the expectation that they lend their fame to 1 ad for GOV Canada to promote sports. Create a team Canada promotional campaign.

How about that? Canada gets something back then. I am giving the world million dollar ideas here, let's go people!

How about a National Charity for Sports that gives bonus credits for Athletes that pay into it. Boom another big money idea that has positive implications for the Sports Canada.

How about if you donate 1M get 3m exemption. 12m player donates 4m and is tax exempt otherwise and the fund grows. Our best athletes then pay for upgrading sports infrastructure and programs etc. 33% effective tax rate which is competitive.

Gotta think outside the box with this stuff.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

You have to look at Athletes like ambassadors to the sports we play and Canada itself. Unfortunately it may not be fair to everyone else but what athletes do do is promote national pride and encouragement for other athletes like future Olympians. There has to be a path for Canadians in some respects to make it after sport too.

I think it's worthy of a special tax code at the very least. I want Canadians to make it here and everywhere to promote the good name of our nation.

For instance, we advertise in other nations to come visit Canada but some of our best selling points come from the athletes like the 2010 Olympics where the world watched us beat the U.S in Gold medal count. It was a heart warming story the showcased Canada

Lastly. Say a program like this costs 400m in tax revenue. Does it not make sense to make it up selling oil to the US at closer to actual market value? What are we giving now? 30% discount? Make it 25% and we have surplus on that program. Rob Peter to pay Paul sometimes. You have to.

Perhaps Canadian athletes could be given the tax exemption with the expectation that they lend their fame to 1 ad for GOV Canada to promote sports. Create a team Canada promotional campaign.

How about that? Canada gets something back then. I am giving the world million dollar ideas here, let's go people!

Are you really advocating on behalf of multi-millionaire athletes to get a tax break?

If they want a tax break they can feel free to play somewhere else or find a new profession. If the government really cared about promoting sports in Canada they should start with athletic scholarships to encourage more youth. Giving tax breaks to the multi-millionaires who have already made it big seems redundant to me.

The rich get richer and the poor stay poor.

 

[thewave]

Are you really advocating on behalf of multi-millionaire athletes to get a tax break?

If they want a tax break they can feel free to play somewhere else or find a new profession. If the government really cared about promoting sports in Canada they should start with athletic scholarships to encourage more youth. Giving tax breaks to the multi-millionaires who have already made it big seems redundant to me.

The rich get richer and the poor stay poor.

That is narrow thinking. A nations morale, reputation etc pays dividends. If you angle it right, it's not a tax break, it's an investment in sovereign growth.

If you don't reward national talent. You lose national talent for the place that will reward it. We become net losers at this point. May as well fold up the country and join the US.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

That is narrow thinking. A nations morale, reputation etc pays dividends. If you angle it right, it's not a tax break, it's an investment in sovereign growth.

If you don't reward national talent. You lose national talent for the place that will reward it. We become net losers at this point. May as well fold up the country and join the US.

Why would you need to angle it if it was a good faith decision?

This isn't an investment into public growth or infrastructure. You're talking about further enriching athletes who earn far more in one year than the average person makes in a lifetime. There's already more hockey players than the Canadian teams can carry.

Let them go to the highest bidder... that's how the free market works.

 

[thewave]

Why would you need to angle it if it was a good faith decision?

This isn't an investment into public growth or infrastructure. You're talking about further enriching athletes who earn far more in one year than the average person makes in a lifetime. There's already more hockey players than the Canadian teams can carry.

Let them go to the highest bidder... that's how the free market works.

I am talking about being competitive in the sports athlete marketplace. Using money in the ways I posted will feed back into the economy as well. Improving arenas, sporting areas, supporting our athletes. Getting players to stay in Canada. Win in Canada and most importantly invest back into Canada while lending their fame to Canada to increase morale etc.

Canada is not competitive in that market place because of poor management. The governments of the past have squandered the greatest national resources we have and done horribly. That's why taxes are high. It's gross incompetence.

We are close to being a failed nation as is. I like some of what is being talked about with developing oil transport means etc in Canada from one of the parties. The alternative is a big fail, but regardless we need players that want to come here, stay here and promote here.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I am talking about being competitive in the sports athlete marketplace. Using money in the ways I posted will feed back into the economy as well. Improving arenas, sporting areas, supporting our athletes. Getting players to stay in Canada. Win in Canada and most importantly invest back into Canada while lending their fame to Canada to increase morale etc.

We're talking about a small handful of elite athletes.

Canada has a small population relative to it's size and that's where the initial problem starts. They can't support enough teams for the athletes they are already producing. The rest of the so-called "sports" aren't well received in Canada and that's why there is only one baseball team and one NBA team and the rest of the teams in other "sports" are minor by comparison.

Giving a small handful of elite athletes tax breaks isn't gonna make or break this country.

 

[thewave]

We're talking about a small handful of elite athletes.

Canada has a small population relative to it's size and that's where the initial problem starts. They can't support enough teams for the athletes they are already producing. The rest of the so-called "sports" aren't well received in Canada and that's why there is only one baseball team and one NBA team and the rest of the teams in other "sports" are minor by comparison.

Giving a small handful of elite athletes tax breaks isn't gonna make or break this country.

Athletes that make over 500k would be eligible, or say 1M. It's worth it if executed correctly.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Athletes that make over 500k would be eligible, or say 1M. It's worth it if executed correctly.

I think your intention is good but you're wanting to go about it ass backwards.

They would need to invest further down the chain by giving out more grants to young children and youth teams and athletic scholarships to teens. That would create the demand for better infrastructure such as arenas. With higher demand and increased competition player salaries on the top end would go up significantly and the taxes, which shouldn't already matter to these mega-rich platinum card carrying mega-millionaires, will be less of a concern as a result since they will be taking more home overall.

We would still have to export most of our athletes to the States and Europe anyway though as Canada simply doesn't have a big enough population to support any more teams than we already have.

 

[TurgPavs]

While I do feel the tax situation is real, IMO it is also over blown.
It will be an absolute mess to try to equalize the tax rates vs the cap.

If there is a Cap Tax Provision written into the CBA, I would also like to see a provision for miles traveled. Its a massive advantage for Pitt, Ottawa, CBJ, Toronto, Carolina, NYI, NYR, Boston, Detroit, and Washington, in travel distance and time.
If we are worried about something as petty as tax rates, we should really look at giving cap relieve to the Western Teams that have to travel 1000's of miles further each year then those 10 teams outlined above.

 

[Buds17]

It's an unfortunate reality that some players just won't want to play for a Canadian team if they have other options. Taking away NMCs isn't an answer though since all that will do is drive up salaries (players won't give up those clauses without some kind of benefit in return). Team owners won't necessarily be thrilled with an annual buyout that doesn't count against the cap because real money is still being paid out there. That sounds like a GM problem as much as anything else.