The Ten Worst Players in the HHOF

Hobnobs

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He finished 7th in Hart trophy voting in 1950 and that was it. A 2nd and 3rd place vote. You are using the Byng and Calder to pump a career? Come on. Why not list how many all-star games the guy played in while we're at it?

Durnan doesn't get into the Hall because he routinely was the first or second best goalie in the NHL in his career? Watson wouldn't be in if he weren't part of a dynasty either. Take it any way you want if you think Watson should be in, but it was being on the Leafs dynasty that did it, not the Allan Cup. That's really reaching.

Laprade is in because he was a pioneer when it came to defensive hockey. He perfected the poke check and was considered one of the best two-way centers of his era. Because of his importance to his teams on the PK the Byng trophy has some relevance in this discussion.
 

Big Phil

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You theorized that there "had to be a reason why Duff didnt get in for nearly 30yrs, submit it was because he wasnt good enough" followed by some cockameme' conspiracy theory that he'd lobbied members of the Induction Committee or whatever (or maybe, just maybe there was a conspiracy, a conspiracy to keep him out)... further.... that Jackson didnt get in earlier "due to the backlog" which was/is false. I pointed out the reasons for Jacksons delayed induction (conspiracy fact) and in the case of Duff & others the now sadly disbanded Veterans Committee finally did get to at least partially clear the backlog with Dick Duffs induction amongst others, Duffs induction long overdue.

There are still omissions, guys who in IMHO should be in there. In some cases like Jackson, there has been pressure bought to bear by members of the various Induction Committee's along with external pressure from powerful voices to deny some players their deserved place in the Hall. Entirely possible Dick Duff may have ticked off whomever at some point in time during his playing career or thereafter hence the delay. An "official story" was provided as you noted earlier but as weve seen time & time again, truth, honesty & integrity not always the NHL's strongest suit.... Really, those of us who support the player inductions, dont have a problem with any of them wont be changing the minds of those that do, and those of you who do have problems with guys like Laprade & Duff wont be changing ours so.... agree to disagree. ;)

That is usually the point of these threads, agree to disagree. I do stand corrected on the Jackson thing, but regardless of the reasoning, I think we can all agree Jackson should have been in regardless of bias against him. As for Duff, he was well liked by the committee, had Toronto connections and somewhere along the way got enough people to support him. Your idea that there was a bias against him is unfounded though.
 

Killion

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Can you name a time Duff hit that kind of peak?

1962 scored the Cup Winning Goal.... 1963, Game One of the Finals, scored 2 goals in 1:08 setting a league record as the Leafs & Duff went on to repeat again as SC Champs.... despite the fact that Duff had missed about 1/4 of the season, out with a broken ankle....

Yep. Dickie Duff. Total Money Player & unlike Andy Bathgate (who btw I also loved but wouldnt have traded Duff for much less included Bob Nevin in that trade with the Rangers) who was pretty much one dimensional... Dick could play it any way you wanted, coming or going. Disciplined, smart, extremely high hockey IQ, deeper, far more substantive leadership qualities than Bathgate, much more valuable and integral a part of "team", a born & bred "Maple Leaf", total Warrior player.

That you cant or wont see that.... too bad, but becoming a problem. No longer just a "disagreement" and that as I requested we civilly "agree to disagree" you Sir are like the proverbial Bulldog who wont let it go... So one final peace offering; agree to disagree on Duff & move on. I/we get it. You dont think he belongs. Understand plenty of others share your opinion. Thats fine too. Excellent. If we all agreed on everything how boring would this place be huh?....

Next?..... Who else beyond Duff do you wish to eviscerate & evict, been sharpening the blades on your whetstone for... out back a the garden shed, suckin back Black Labels, chain smoking, foul mood all these long years now Phil? Ha?... My God Man.... In a previous life what/who were you? A titled English Gentleman who owned huge swaths of Ireland, evicting 10's of 1000's & now in this life you just cant stop or what? What did Dickie Duff ever do to you? Run off with your Mother backing over your dog in the driveway?... who then got run over again by Edgar Laprade goin the other way in his minty Buick Roadmaster, oblivious to the all the drama that had just occurred... took his eyes off the road for just a second to light his Brigham & who finished off Spot completely or what?

Next. Next Next Next NEXT!
 
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Big Phil

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Laprade is in because he was a pioneer when it came to defensive hockey. He perfected the poke check and was considered one of the best two-way centers of his era. Because of his importance to his teams on the PK the Byng trophy has some relevance in this discussion.

I get it, but Butch Goring is in the same boat. Fine two-way player who took very little penalty minutes his entire career. You want them on your team................but are they the cream of the crop? Are they great? If so, then where do you stop it?
 

Morgoth Bauglir

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1962 scored the Cup Winning Goal.... 1963, Game One of the Finals, scored 2 goals in 1:08 setting a league record as the Leafs & Duff went on to repeat again as SC Champs.... despite the fact that Duff had missed about 1/4 of the season, out with a broken ankle....

Yep. Dickie Duff. Total Money Player & unlike Andy Bathgate (who btw I also loved but wouldnt have traded Duff for much less included Bob Nevin in that trade with the Rangers) who was pretty much one dimensional... Dick could play it any way you wanted, coming or going. Disciplined, smart, extremely high hockey IQ, deeper, far more substantive leadership qualities than Bathgate, much more valuable and integral a part of "team", a born & bred "Maple Leaf", total Warrior player.

That you cant or wont see that.... too bad, but becoming a problem. No longer just a "disagreement" and that as I requested we civilly "agree to disagree" you Sir are like the proverbial Bulldog who wont let it go... So one final peace offering; agree to disagree on Duff & move on. I/we get it. You dont think he belongs. Understand plenty of others share your opinion. Thats fine too. Excellent. If we all agreed on everything how boring would this place be huh?....

Next?..... Who else beyond Duff do you wish to eviscerate & evict, been sharpening the blades on your whetstone for... out back a the garden shed, suckin back Black Labels, chain smoking, foul mood all these long years now Phil? Ha?... My God Man.... In a previous life what/who were you? A titled English Gentleman who owned huge swaths of Ireland, evicting 10's of 1000's & now in this life you just cant stop or what? What did Dickie Duff ever do to you? Run off with your Mother backing over your dog in the driveway?... who then got run over again by Edgar Laprade goin the other way in his minty Buick Roadmaster, oblivious to the all the drama that had just occurred... took his eyes off the road for just a second to light his Brigham & who finished off Spot completely or what?

Next. Next Next Next NEXT!

Admittedly, I see these threads and immediately think "Oh whatayaknow, another 'I wanna toss X out the HOF'thread" :laugh:
 
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Big Phil

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1962 scored the Cup Winning Goal.... 1963, Game One of the Finals, scored 2 goals in 1:08 setting a league record as the Leafs & Duff went on to repeat again as SC Champs.... despite the fact that Duff had missed about 1/4 of the season, out with a broken ankle....

Yep. Dickie Duff. Total Money Player & unlike Andy Bathgate (who btw I also loved but wouldnt have traded Duff for much less included Bob Nevin in that trade with the Rangers) who was pretty much one dimensional... Dick could play it any way you wanted, coming or going. Disciplined, smart, extremely high hockey IQ, deeper, far more substantive leadership qualities than Bathgate, much more valuable and integral a part of "team", a born & bred "Maple Leaf", total Warrior player.

That you cant or wont see that.... too bad, but becoming a problem. No longer just a "disagreement" and that as I requested we civilly "agree to disagree" you Sir are like the proverbial Bulldog who wont let it go... So one final peace offering; agree to disagree on Duff & move on. I/we get it. You dont think he belongs. Understand plenty of others share your opinion. Thats fine too. Excellent. If we all agreed on everything how boring would this place be huh?....

Next?..... Who else beyond Duff do you wish to eviscerate & evict, been sharpening the blades on your whetstone for... out back a the garden shed, suckin back Black Labels, chain smoking, foul mood all these long years now Phil? Ha?... My God Man.... In a previous life what/who were you? A titled English Gentleman who owned huge swaths of Ireland, evicting 10's of 1000's & now in this life you just cant stop or what? What did Dickie Duff ever do to you? Run off with your Mother backing over your dog in the driveway?... who then got run over again by Edgar Laprade goin the other way in his minty Buick Roadmaster, oblivious to the all the drama that had just occurred... took his eyes off the road for just a second to light his Brigham & who finished off Spot completely or what?

Next. Next Next Next NEXT!

Why is Duff brought up on here so much? Probably because he is basically Ralph Backstrom in the HHOF. Duff was a big contributor in 1962, but even though Duff had those two goals you are talking about in 1963 the truth is he was 6th in regular season and 6th in playoff scoring on his own team. I think that is the problem many of us have with Duff. He is a nondescript player inducted on a team full of players who were more impressive. He does not stand out even on a team where there were less traditional "stars" but more or less very good players (1960s Leafs and Habs).

As for others, I never would have put Gillies in there. I get the whole idea that he was part of a dynasty and did a lot to help Bossy and Trottier but far too short of a peak and if you are going to pick someone from that dynasty I'd have gone with Tonelli first (obviously after the big 4).

Pat Burns is just an emotional selection as coach and doesn't fit the criteria.

Harold Ballard, who the heck knows why. I still don't.

I am fine with all of the goalies in there. No issues whatsoever.

On defense just Housley and Boivin. Both have their warts and when I say warts I mean in comparison to the great defensemen in there ahead of them. There is no doubt they were still good and serviceable.

Obviously you know my issue with the Andreychuk thing. Just an example of how the HHOF seems to be about an arbitrary number regardless if it takes you 5000 games to reach it.

Who else? Let's look at the future. I know I won't be very impressed the day someone like Marleau gets in but it will be drowned out especially if the only image we see of him is hoisting the Cup in a Leafs uniform. Patrick Elias would be another name, maybe Brad Richards? Rod the Bod? Vinny Lecavalier? Keith Tkachuk, Bondra. All of those names are not ones I would put in, but there are so many question marks now of the integrity of the HHOF and their motives that I just have to wonder if we all saw the same careers. These players were good, they weren't great. They had their moments, but they weren't sustainable. Yes, my standard is quite strict, but I prefer the baseball version over the hockey standards.

It has come to the point where even though I wouldn't have inducted Roenick, he at least is above all the above listed and I'd trade inducting him just for the HHOF to stop putting in the ones below the marginal level.
 

Killion

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I get it, but Butch Goring is in the same boat. Fine two-way player who took very little penalty minutes his entire career. You want them on your team................but are they the cream of the crop? Are they great? If so, then where do you stop it?

At what they do, yes, yes they are Phil, and every bit as deserving as those with the gaudy stats. Beyond worthy inductions. Just a shame Butch hasnt been nominated, inducted.
 

Big Phil

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At what they do, yes, yes they are Phil, and every bit as deserving as those with the gaudy stats. Beyond worthy inductions. Just a shame Butch hasnt been nominated, inducted.

Craig Ludwig is the best shot blocker I ever saw. But it is a small part of the game. Defense and two-way play is a bigger part of the game obviously, but there are those that did it good and those that did it elite (Fedorov, Messier, Yzerman) plus a ton other. Mike Modano would fall into the elite category. Obviously before him types like Beliveau or in recent years Datsyuk and to a lesser extent Toews. Goring would open up a door for others, and saying that doesn't mean I didn't like him or respect him as a player, it just means where do you stop from there?
 
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Killion

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Craig Ludwig is the best shot blocker I ever saw. But it is a small part of the game. Defense and two-way play is a bigger part of the game obviously, but there are those that did it good and those that did it elite (Fedorov, Messier, Yzerman) plus a ton other. Mike Modano would fall into the elite category. Obviously before him types like Beliveau or in recent years Datsyuk and to a lesser extent Toews. Goring would open up a door for others, and saying that doesn't mean I didn't like him or respect him as a player, it just means where do you stop from there?

Well, I myself love guys like Leo Boivin & Butch Goring, gimme a team with nothing but Butch Goring up front & Leo Boivins on the back end any day all day. These guys go right through the wall for you without asking, without expecting any thanks... so ya, I'd be thanking Butch with a place in the HHOF. He was that impressive to me as a player, human being. Total character guy. The glue that binds. There are other Islanders as well that you mentioned, omissions, should be in.... oh, and dont even think about trying to evict Jethro. You kiddin me?

Leo Boivin.... well well well.... just, come.... on..... Man. Give credit where its due. A lot more to Leo than just being the greatest Hip Checker the games ever seen. Tremendous player. Every bit as good as & better than some Defenceman who are in that you wouldnt dream of evicting. I used to love watching Leo. Total class act. A guy the Canadiens or Leafs wouldve loved to have had & who would have fit in beyond seamlessly... but far too valuable to the Bruins to be letting go. He & Bucyk for many years the heart & head, soul of that club during some pretty lean years but who showed up with a smile on their faces & played their guts out every single shift, game. You got more than your moneys worth watching Boivin perform, you got an education.

Burns for sure, your quite right an "emotional induction" and you know?.... I'm actually ok with that. Not going to get into the why's, hows' & wherefores... try & "sell you" on it. Understand where your coming from however philosophically, I have room in my HHOF for a guy like Pat Burns so no problem..... Ballard on the other hand, like Campbell, convicted of crimes, if you decided to re-write the HHOF Charter & Policies of both Induction & Expulsion whereby if someone has been convicted of a major crime before consideration then they shouldnt be, or if they commit some major crime after induction & should therefore be expelled, then sure, I'd vote yes to that. The Football Hall of Fame of course, they dont care, all that matters is what took place on the field, in the boardroom, not the courtroom. I disagree with that.

Now, Clarence Campbell, Harold Ballard, these guys didnt kill, rape or maim anyone (that we know of). Dedicated their lives to the game. Their in & thats that, the Hall certainly not apologizing for their misdeeds, just asking that you consider their good works & contributions to the game & society as a whole, and that on balance while flawed they should be remembered, honored for their good works.... they are interesting individuals, they did do many good deeds, served the game just as they made sure the game served them and that in honoring them in the HHOF with their own pulpits, knowing of them providing lessons in life to future generations.... As for the more recent player/builder inductions.... Im cool with the lot of them.... still lots of omissions, guys who hopefully will get in.
 
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Canadiens1958

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He finished 7th in Hart trophy voting in 1950 and that was it. A 2nd and 3rd place vote. You are using the Byng and Calder to pump a career? Come on. Why not list how many all-star games the guy played in while we're at it?

Durnan doesn't get into the Hall because he routinely was the first or second best goalie in the NHL in his career? Watson wouldn't be in if he weren't part of a dynasty either. Take it any way you want if you think Watson should be in, but it was being on the Leafs dynasty that did it, not the Allan Cup. That's really reaching.

Big Phil there are two distinct Harry Watson's in the HHOF. Harry E. Watson and Harry P. Watson.

One was part of the post WWII Leafs dynasty while the other was part of the 1924 Canadian Olympic team and member of the 1922 and 1923 Allan Cup Champion Topronto Granites.

Players By Name -- Legends of Hockey -- The Legends

Harry Watson (ice hockey, born 1898) - Wikipedia

A generation apart. Two distinct members.
 
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Canadiens1958

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I get it, but Butch Goring is in the same boat. Fine two-way player who took very little penalty minutes his entire career. You want them on your team................but are they the cream of the crop? Are they great? If so, then where do you stop it?

Goring was never a keeper. Nice plug in temporary fix. Laprade
 

Canadiens1958

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Was talking about the 1962 Leafs by the way. Who would have thought a dynasty team beats a team that barely got into the playoffs! Come on, this is the best you have for Dick Duff? A HHOFer needs to jump out at you, you don't need to dig this deep to make a case for someone like this.

Spare me what Bathgate did in one semi final series against a team littered with Hall of Famers. He tied none other than Bobby Hull for the lead in points that year. Can you name a time Duff hit that kind of peak?

Vapid points.

Duff joined the canadiens after a season ending injury Gilles Tremblay. Over the next five seasons the Canadiens had two LW, each capable of mplaying with Beliveau orvRichard as needed, contributing to 4 SCs in 5 seasons.

Bathgate was in the minors, by late 1966-67, after a one game spark with the Leafs, 1964 game seven, having worn out his welcome in Detroit. Meanwhile in Toronto, two solid players, below Dick Duff quality, Jim Pappin and Ron Ellis had easily replace Bathgate and Ron Stewrt on RW.
 
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Big Phil

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Big Phil there are two distinct Harry Watson's in the HHOF. Harry E. Watson and Harry P. Watson.

One was part of the post WWII Leafs dynasty while the other was part of the 1924 Canadian Olympic team and member of the 1922 and 1923 Allan Cup Champion Topronto Granites.

Players By Name -- Legends of Hockey -- The Legends

Harry Watson (ice hockey, born 1898) - Wikipedia

A generation apart. Two distinct members.

I believe you just said Harry Watson. Nothing said it wasn't Watson from the 1940s, that was who I assumed you were talking about.
 

Canadiens1958

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I believe you just said Harry Watson. Nothing said it wasn't Watson from the 1940s, that was who I assumed you were talking about.

Second Watson did not have Allan Cup success nor was he a pure amateur Olympian. So who else could it have been but the early twenties Watson being compared to Laprade and his Allan Cup success.
 

Big Phil

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Second Watson did not have Allan Cup success nor was he a pure amateur Olympian. So who else could it have been but the early twenties Watson being compared to Laprade and his Allan Cup success.

Yes, I see that part now, I didn't see it before, or skimmed through the post too fast.
 

Big Phil

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Vapid points.

Duff joined the canadiens after a season ending injury Gilles Tremblay. Over the next five seasons the Canadiens had two LW, each capable of mplaying with Beliveau orvRichard as needed, contributing to 4 SCs in 5 seasons.

Bathgate was in the minors, by late 1966-67, after a one game spark with the Leafs, 1964 game seven, having worn out his welcome in Detroit. Meanwhile in Toronto, two solid players, below Dick Duff quality, Jim Pappin and Ron Ellis had easily replace Bathgate and Ron Stewrt on RW.

Can we focus on what the guy did in his prime? Bathgate by the late 1960s was past his prime. How about the fact that he went toe to toe with Gordie Howe points-wise for a decade:

Points from 1955-'64
Howe - 704
Bathgate - 702
Beliveau - 672

Sorry, but I'm not putting Dick Duff ahead of a guy who routinely finished ahead of Howe in points.
 

Canadiens1958

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Can we focus on what the guy did in his prime? Bathgate by the late 1960s was past his prime. How about the fact that he went toe to toe with Gordie Howe points-wise for a decade:

Points from 1955-'64
Howe - 704
Bathgate - 702
Beliveau - 672

Sorry, but I'm not putting Dick Duff ahead of a guy who routinely finished ahead of Howe in points.

Expected since both Howe and Bathgate were extra shifted. Then Howe left him far behind.

Nobody is making the point that Duff should be ahead of Bathgate at all times. The point is nthat Duff is more than qualified for a niche in the HHOF complex.
 

Big Phil

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Well, I myself love guys like Leo Boivin & Butch Goring, gimme a team with nothing but Butch Goring up front & Leo Boivins on the back end any day all day. These guys go right through the wall for you without asking, without expecting any thanks... so ya, I'd be thanking Butch with a place in the HHOF. He was that impressive to me as a player, human being. Total character guy. The glue that binds. There are other Islanders as well that you mentioned, omissions, should be in.... oh, and dont even think about trying to evict Jethro. You kiddin me?

I don't disagree with you, I want guys that go through the wall for me as well. Goring has the same issue that someone like Tonelli does, not enough............"eliteness" to get in. Guys you wish were a lock, but aren't.

Leo Boivin.... well well well.... just, come.... on..... Man. Give credit where its due. A lot more to Leo than just being the greatest Hip Checker the games ever seen. Tremendous player. Every bit as good as & better than some Defenceman who are in that you wouldnt dream of evicting. I used to love watching Leo. Total class act. A guy the Canadiens or Leafs wouldve loved to have had & who would have fit in beyond seamlessly... but far too valuable to the Bruins to be letting go. He & Bucyk for many years the heart & head, soul of that club during some pretty lean years but who showed up with a smile on their faces & played their guts out every single shift, game. You got more than your moneys worth watching Boivin perform, you got an education.

And I liked Adam Foote too. I thought he was a good fit to a championship team. Heck, so was Kevin Lowe. But individually are these guys great on their own? My standard is that the HHOF should be reserved for those players. Hockey has the opposite problem that baseball has. They just inducted Jack Morris (or will this summer). This is a guy who won 254 games, won 4 World Series and was a stellar World Series MVP. He's just getting in now. Other pitchers who you swear are in but aren't like Curt Schilling or David Cone are actually still waiting. That's a pretty high standard I think. Then you have the steroid era guys that were good enough to be in but the Hall isn't recognizing them yet. Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are both still waiting because of gambling issues. I am not saying we have to swing the pendulum that far, but I always think it is better leaving some out rather than putting more in because you can always correct it later, you can't pull anyone out of there.

Now, Clarence Campbell, Harold Ballard, these guys didnt kill, rape or maim anyone (that we know of). Dedicated their lives to the game. Their in & thats that, the Hall certainly not apologizing for their misdeeds, just asking that you consider their good works & contributions to the game & society as a whole, and that on balance while flawed they should be remembered, honored for their good works.... they are interesting individuals, they did do many good deeds, served the game just as they made sure the game served them and that in honoring them in the HHOF with their own pulpits, knowing of them providing lessons in life to future generations.... As for the more recent player/builder inductions.... Im cool with the lot of them.... still lots of omissions, guys who hopefully will get in.

Campbell I understand. When you are running the league for 31 years you are going to get honoured. Like it or not Gary Bettman's mug will be plastered in the Hall someday too. Even Donald Fehr's probably. Both are scary thoughts, but it is what it is. Too high of a position for too long (at least in Bettman's case) to ignore. Even though Campbell thumbed his nose at a player's union when they really needed one, he is still like a politician with good and bad points to him in his history. You still have to give him credit for the good.

Ballard I just don't get. Inherited the team he did and ran it to the ground. Made an original 6 franchise a punch line. The Habs had I believe just one more Cup than the Leafs in 1967. Definitely a man who epitomized how not to run a franchise. Did some jail time too. Inducted not long after that in 1977. Probably not enough time to let it sink in how badly he botched up a legendary franchise.
 

Big Phil

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Expected since both Howe and Bathgate were extra shifted. Then Howe left him far behind.

Nobody is making the point that Duff should be ahead of Bathgate at all times. The point is nthat Duff is more than qualified for a niche in the HHOF complex.

I think you were.

Alright look, enough about Duff I am not going to sit and talk to the two people I have ever seen on this board go to bat for his induction over and over again. We have different views.

Tell me who you do not want to see in there. Because, as I have seen in the past, and I have mentioned this to Killion too, it seems as if you think the Hall of Fame cannot do any wrong. I think they've made mistakes, they aren't infallible. But tell me who right now you wouldn't put in that is eligible or soon to be eligible. Because you defend each selection like a mother cub, I want to hear some names you wouldn't put in just in case they do get in.
 
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Canadiens1958

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I think you were.

Alright look, enough about Duff I am not going to sit and talk to the two people I have ever seen on this board go to bat for his induction over and over again. We have different views.

Tell me who you do not want to see in there. Because, as I have seen in the past, and I have mentioned this to Killion too, it seems as if you think the Hall of Fame cannot do any wrong. I think they've made mistakes, they aren't infallible. But tell me who right now you wouldn't put in that is eligible or soon to be eligible. Because you defend each selection like a mother cub, I want to hear some names you wouldn't put in just in case they do get in.

You just do not get it.

Killion and I appreciate the celebration of hockey. Simple as that sounds. Still you pollute the enjoyment by trying to to introduce this misguided concept of right and wrong.

Both of us look forward to new additions with anticipation because we enjoy the appreciation of others, thru the changing perspectives as the HHOF committee evolves. We enjoy the procees, listening and reading about how players integrated teams and styles, how roles were defined, how players adapted to make teams and the game better. Where players fell short and were disappointed individually and collectively(team).

Each of us can provide extensive lists of players and builders. But what is the point? Not interested in reading some of the drivel that would be generated. The candidates deserve the respect that some simply refuse to give them.
 
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Big Phil

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You just do not get it.

Killion and I appreciate the celebration of hockey. Simple as that sounds. Still you pollute the enjoyment by trying to to introduce this misguided concept of right and wrong.

Both of us look forward to new additions with anticipation because we enjoy the appreciation of others, thru the changing perspectives as the HHOF committee evolves. We enjoy the procees, listening and reading about how players integrated teams and styles, how roles were defined, how players adapted to make teams and the game better. Where players fell short and were disappointed individually and collectively(team).

Each of us can provide extensive lists of players and builders. But what is the point? Not interested in reading some of the drivel that would be generated. The candidates deserve the respect that some simply refuse to give them.

That is part of the love of hockey, debating its history. Why else would anyone be on here other than that? Who says you can't have fun debating the HHOF worthiness of each player, or future player? You act like I haven't sat back and enjoyed different players over my lifetime, HHOFer or not. There just seems to be a standard that is dropping on a steady basis.
 
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Canadiens1958

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That is part of the love of hockey, debating its history. Why else would anyone be on here other than that? Who says you cague like you do debate lean't have fun debating the HHOF worthiness of each player, or future player? You act like I haven't sat back and enjoyed different players over my lifetime, HHOFer or not. There just seems to be a standard that is dropping on a steady basis.

Do not see the board as a competitive debate league as you do.

The standard is constantly evolving to accommodate new league dynamics - salary cap, length in shift changes and emphasis, scheduling nuances, etc. At the same time the standard has to be sufficiently elastic to properly explain and integrate the past. Prime example the emerging data about 3 games in 4 nights and the"sitting at home waiting" phenomena and other factors that change the appreciation of the past.

Prime example visit my Doug Harvey / Lou Fontinato trade
thread which provides new appreciations about the various actors involved.
 
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