You could go low add in Andersson at the D for 900 000 and then get a 3,100,000 D-man in a trade. But that will still not be sufficent to land a D-man of the Lou and Ballard trade calibre. By that logic someone in the list above must go, someone who matter cap wise.
The team next season
- Thread starter Virtanen2Horvat
- Start date
You could go low add in Andersson at the D for 900 000 and then get a 3,100,000 D-man in a trade. But that will still not be sufficent to land a D-man of the Lou and Ballard trade calibre. By that logic someone in the list above must go, someone who matter cap wise.
Honestly, I haven't watched a whole lot of the Wolves since NHL started up so I haven't seen some of his best games, but generally he's in a similar mold as our other D prospects Tanev and Corrado. Smooth skater, good positionally, very smart, can contribute offensively somewhat and doesn't shy away from physical play (but doesn't necessarily initiate). Obviously there's some differences between all three guys but that's just a general description. I might post more later if I have a moment.
I don't know if he's quite NHL material though, ideally probably just a call-up next season.
Connauton is bad. He's not that good offensively outside of his shot and he's bad defensively. I don't care what tale Gillis is spinning, Connauton will not be making the NHL full-time.
Yossarian54
Registered User
This is the line-up if we keep (nearly) everyone:
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m)
Mason Raymond ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.250m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.250m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.850m) / Manny Malhotra ($1.000m) / Dale Weise ($1.000m)
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($1.500m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.250m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,814,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): -$5,514,167
I think Jensen probably makes it given his SEL performances.
MG has shown a tendency I think to keep 3 spare players on the roster, whether it be 2 F and 1 D or visa verca.
So we need to cut about ~6M, given you probably want a little wiggle room. Also bearing in mind you need to actually replace a player you cut - it's not just a matter of taking away their whole salary.
Malhotra is probably iffy - he'd really need to take a cut and there might not be room for him any more. So we still need to move about 5M (while bringing in 1 or 2 players to replace on ELCs or league min).
I think that means one of Ballard or Booth is gone AND one of Higgins or Raymond is gone. If we're able to sign people at greater discounts than i've given here, we might be able to get away with just Ballard or Booth, but I doubt that.
I think people have forgotten how good Higgins was last year and the previous playoffs, I think he gets a pass early on this season. However a lot of the decision might come down to how those 4 players play this year, especially playoffs.
How well Jensen finishes the season if he continues in the AHL after the SEL season finished might also influence it. It strikes me that Jensen could be almost a straight replacement for Booth (similar weight, similar height, similar 'shoot-first' style - not to say Jensen lacks a passing game though). Likewise the play and physical maturation of Corrado might influence the decision on Ballard (although I really think he spends next year in the AHL).
Certainly it is way to early to call at the moment though. If I have confidence in any GM to sign current players to bargain contracts and squeeze everyone in, it's Gillis and Gilman.
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m)
Mason Raymond ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.250m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.250m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.850m) / Manny Malhotra ($1.000m) / Dale Weise ($1.000m)
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($1.500m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.250m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,814,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): -$5,514,167
I think Jensen probably makes it given his SEL performances.
MG has shown a tendency I think to keep 3 spare players on the roster, whether it be 2 F and 1 D or visa verca.
So we need to cut about ~6M, given you probably want a little wiggle room. Also bearing in mind you need to actually replace a player you cut - it's not just a matter of taking away their whole salary.
Malhotra is probably iffy - he'd really need to take a cut and there might not be room for him any more. So we still need to move about 5M (while bringing in 1 or 2 players to replace on ELCs or league min).
I think that means one of Ballard or Booth is gone AND one of Higgins or Raymond is gone. If we're able to sign people at greater discounts than i've given here, we might be able to get away with just Ballard or Booth, but I doubt that.
I think people have forgotten how good Higgins was last year and the previous playoffs, I think he gets a pass early on this season. However a lot of the decision might come down to how those 4 players play this year, especially playoffs.
How well Jensen finishes the season if he continues in the AHL after the SEL season finished might also influence it. It strikes me that Jensen could be almost a straight replacement for Booth (similar weight, similar height, similar 'shoot-first' style - not to say Jensen lacks a passing game though). Likewise the play and physical maturation of Corrado might influence the decision on Ballard (although I really think he spends next year in the AHL).
Certainly it is way to early to call at the moment though. If I have confidence in any GM to sign current players to bargain contracts and squeeze everyone in, it's Gillis and Gilman.
Next year's free agents:
I expect Schroeder will grow into a full time, every day player. Once Kesler returns, he is going to have to make the best of his time on the 3rd line and possibly on the wing.
Booth - trade him for what ever you can get. His injury was unfortunate, but his history of injuries makes him too high risk. If Raymond plays like the 2009/10 Raymond, Booth is superfluous. Jensen is going to come to camp, and after an outstanding year in the SEL, he should press for a starting role. With Hansen, Higgins, Raymond, Burrows and Schroeder fighting for 2 2nd line spots, I just don't see room for a guy who can't stay healthy.
Ballard - tough one. He's has actually been playing very well since the tail end of last year, but he consumes a lot of cap space for a 3rd pairing guy. It would make the decision much easier if Connauton plays his way into contention. I'll wait and see on Ballard.
New blood - I think Nicklas Jensen will make a strong push for a starting spot. Brendan Gaunce probably needs a full year or more in the AHL. Eddie Lack is likely to make the team as a backup. Kevin Connauton is on the bubble this year; he needs to improve his defensive play to get a shot. Frankie Corrado will also need some time in the A.
X-Factor - what ever player or players we get in return for Luongo.
- Malhotra: probably let him go. He's an acknowledged leader and really well liked in the room, but so were Ohlund and Salo. Have to apply some Wally Buono logic here, no room to be sentimental.
- Raymond: If his early season play is an indication of how he plays the remainder of the year, absolutely resign him.
- Higgins: Yes, resign him if at all affordable.
- Lapierre: Yes - and it shouldn't cost that much.
- Ebbett: He's cheap depth, and it really depends on how he plays this year.
- Volpatti: Yes - he's great value on the 4th line.
- Weise: Yes - no brainer.
- Tanev (RFA): Absolutely - I have no idea what he is going to want, but he doesn't have a lot of leverage.
- Alberts: Yes, unless he is looking for more than a token raise. None of our defensive prospects play the same type of game as Alberts. I thought at one point that Yann Sauve would be the guy whose simple, low risk game would translate into a depth defenseman, but his development has been slowed by injuries.
- Barker: No, not unless he supplants Alberts.
I expect Schroeder will grow into a full time, every day player. Once Kesler returns, he is going to have to make the best of his time on the 3rd line and possibly on the wing.
Booth - trade him for what ever you can get. His injury was unfortunate, but his history of injuries makes him too high risk. If Raymond plays like the 2009/10 Raymond, Booth is superfluous. Jensen is going to come to camp, and after an outstanding year in the SEL, he should press for a starting role. With Hansen, Higgins, Raymond, Burrows and Schroeder fighting for 2 2nd line spots, I just don't see room for a guy who can't stay healthy.
Ballard - tough one. He's has actually been playing very well since the tail end of last year, but he consumes a lot of cap space for a 3rd pairing guy. It would make the decision much easier if Connauton plays his way into contention. I'll wait and see on Ballard.
New blood - I think Nicklas Jensen will make a strong push for a starting spot. Brendan Gaunce probably needs a full year or more in the AHL. Eddie Lack is likely to make the team as a backup. Kevin Connauton is on the bubble this year; he needs to improve his defensive play to get a shot. Frankie Corrado will also need some time in the A.
X-Factor - what ever player or players we get in return for Luongo.
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2008
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This analysis makes me think it is even more imperative that Gillis trade Luongo for young players on entry level contracts and/or for high draft picks.
Ideally the canucks could go through a mini retool this season and offseason, exchanging high priced players in their primes like Luongo, Ballard and Booth for entry level contracts. That is the best case scenario: getting 3 future stars out of the necessity to reduce cap hit. Not very likely though I'm afraid.
Agent007
Registered User
- Mar 22, 2006
- 7,718
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I think there's a pretty good chance that we'll see some bargains available this summer due to the fact that some teams will have to buy out players just to get under the cap and there just isn't going to be a lot of money available to be spent on depth players.
Since the lockout the cap has gone up every year and there's a ton of cap space available in the market but with the cap going down significantly this year it's going to be real interesting to see how the free agent market shapes up. Obviously the big name players will get their money but what else will be left for the rest of the market?
Since the lockout the cap has gone up every year and there's a ton of cap space available in the market but with the cap going down significantly this year it's going to be real interesting to see how the free agent market shapes up. Obviously the big name players will get their money but what else will be left for the rest of the market?
CpatainCanuck
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- Sep 18, 2008
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The problem is the canucks are one of the teams that is going to have the most trouble getting under the cap...there is literally no money available for them to pick up bargains on the Free Agent market.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
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Looks like there's no way to keep Ballard and still fit under the new cap. Hopefully they can get something of value for him.
Raymond is going to walk. Malhotra and Alberts will follow IMO.
The forward corps there is pretty realistic. The D corps probably won't give Connauten that spot. It's going to be about bargain basement shopping in FA to fill out the remaining depth roles for the 3m~ left.
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2008
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Maybe Gillis is looking to trade Luongo for a good young D-man on an entry level contract?
Agent007
Registered User
- Mar 22, 2006
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Here's what I've got our team looking like next year so far:
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Jordan Schroeder ($0.851m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Dale Weise ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Alexander Edler ($5.000m)
Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $54,420,500; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (16-man roster): $9,879,500
What we need to add is as follows:
LW3
LW4
C4
RW4
6D
7D
8D
Assuming Gillis wants to keep roughly $1.9M cap space to start the season and we sign our 7D and 8D for 800k each that leaves us with $6.4m for the 3rd line winger, entire 4th line and 6th defence men.
That should be plenty of cap space for us to be able to pick up some bargains. If we can add a top 9 forward in the Luongo deal or if a guy like Jensen can make the team next year then it gives us that much more cap space to spend on filling out the rest of the roster. If we also end up buying out Booth then it gives us that much more cap space to add an impact player or two.
The Booth buyout IMO would really depend on the return we would get for Luongo. Let's say for example we got a young top six forward on an ELC then we could realistically look at buying out Booth if we can add an impact player via free agency.
The fact that we're looking at adding bottom six forwards should be a good thing for us. IMO those are going to be the guys that'll get squeezed real hard and they'll be where we can find some bargains.
It's still early... but Higgins and Raymond for roughly what Booth makes is pretty attractive. There is still a dearth of top 6 talent in the league and 4.2m isn't a crazy amount of money, could we trade Booth?
I don't want to judge Booth yet.
Raymond has looked much better this season, Booth could be the same (once he returns).
But I still think that Raymond is gone after this season. Canucks cant afford the raise that he'll want, and he can easily get what he wants in free agency.
And if it comes down to Booth VS Raymond, Canucks would prefer Booth since he's much more physical/willing to crash the net, which Gillis wants.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
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Could, but I think the voice in Gillis's head that says the team must get bigger will repeat when making that call. Booth is a move in that direction, like him or not. Higgins plays bigger than Raymond too. I just think that with the direction the team is moving in that when Raymond asks for what he is due, Gillis won't reciprocate. Just a gut feeling is all.
If he could keep all three that would be fantastic, and I agree with the dearth of talent around the league. But Raymond's agent will see that too and both will talk themselves into testing FA, IMO.
I'm definitely not giving up on Booth. It's simple math for me; Higgins + Raymond @ 5m > Booth @ 4.2m, at least right now. Even more so with the cap shrinking. Adding Kassian to the top 6 makes Booths size less of an issue for me and Jensen should add to that in the near future.
It's too early for this really. If Raymond keeps this up he's going to command Booth money. If he doesn't, I might not want him anymore
Higgins is a must re-sign for me because he's shown more chemistry with Kesler than anyone else on our roster imo.
Last edited:
If the Canucks do win the cup this season.........MG will try to keep the core together......we don't want to be like Chicago and have to lose some player because of cap problems
Bleach Clean
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- Aug 9, 2006
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I'm definitely not giving up on Booth. It's simple match for me; Higgins + Raymond @ 5m > Booth @ 4.2m, at least right now. Even more so with the cap shrinking. Adding Kassian to the top 6 makes Booths size less of an issue for me and Jensen should add to that in the near future.
It's too early for this really. If Raymond keeps this up he's going to command Booth money. If he doesn't, I might not want him anymore
Higgins is a must re-sign for me because he's shown more chemistry with Kesler than anyone else on our roster imo.
Raymond will get greater than 3m if he hits close to 20 goals (pace of course), which is likely IMO. Perhaps more in this FA market. He gets that, and Higgins can push to 2.5-3m depending on his season, and that becomes a tough situation to maintain. Raymond will definitely look for the payday with the way he was treated this past offseason IMO...
It all comes down to if he keeps this up. If he does and you can get both he and Higgins for 5m total, then of course you do that and move Booth... I just don't think you will get that much of a bargain.
CpatainCanuck
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- Sep 18, 2008
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Its early but is Schroeder really going to be the ideal 3rd line center for next season? Not that Gillis shouldn't try to upgrade on Lapierre, but keeping him for at least one more year wouldn't be the worst idea. 1 or 2 years at 1.25-1.5 million for Lapierre at least solidifies the 3rd or 4th line center role if Schroeder isn't ready and if a better option doesn't materialize in free agency or via trade. I'd also be willing to keep Malhotra for the right price. Looking at what's currently available in the 2013 UFA class (Nichol, Smithson, Halpern, etc). dude can still win a faceoff and kill penalties with the best of them.
I'm pretty happy with Schroeder as the 3rd line center already.
Good offensively, solid defensively, fast, decent on faceoffs, he's feisty even though he's small.
Going back to Booth, if he continues to not mesh well with Kesler, I'd move him to Schroeder's wing.
Like Raymond, he's fast and a shoot first type player. And unlike Raymond, he's very willing to crash the net.
Higgins - Kesler - Burrows* (a shutdown line that can be good offensively)
Booth - Schroeder - Hansen (a very fast offensive 3rd line)
*If Kassian stays with the twins
Sure those guys could probably get those deals, much like Edler could have done better than 5m per. 3m+ on the open market is 2.75m in Gillis dollars, 2.5m+ is about 2.25m. I think both of them really like it here.
I would not do what you would do lol
and neither would MG and I thank him for that.
Alot of decisions, but here's who I would keep:
Schroeder: RFA
Weise: RFA, maybe
Higgins: UFA, maybe
Lapierre: UFA, maybe
Volpatti: UFA, maybe
Tanev
Schroeder: RFA
Weise: RFA, maybe
Higgins: UFA, maybe
Lapierre: UFA, maybe
Volpatti: UFA, maybe
Tanev
Yossarian54
Registered User
The only way to keep Ballard is to drop Booth (plus probably Raymond or Higgins in both cases). I think our forward depth with Jensen, Schroeder and Kassian might allow this, but Ballard is definitely the 'easiest' method of disappearing 4.2M. It'll be a really difficult decision for MG if Ballard continues to play well - which acquisition does he 'give up on'?
Yeah I agree. Gillis is amazing in this respect. The inconsistencies in their play may work against them here.
This analysis makes me think it is even more imperative that Gillis trade Luongo for young players on entry level contracts and/or for high draft picks.
Ideally the canucks could go through a mini retool this season and offseason, exchanging high priced players in their primes like Luongo, Ballard and Booth for entry level contracts. That is the best case scenario: getting 3 future stars out of the necessity to reduce cap hit. Not very likely though I'm afraid.
Yeah, Luongo is absolutely gone. It saddens me, because how awesome would that goal-tending tandem be, but it's absolutely imperative his cap hit his disappears.
Your other point is the silver lining. While I am not one who thinks we can return genuine blue-chip prospects or young players with Lu and Ballard, we can get some decent quality. So I agree it's not very likely we get 'young stars', but we do get something. Picking up someone with similar promise to a Kadri (as an example) would be excellent, having maybe two 1sts and two 2nds in what is supposed to be a very deep draft in the top ~45 or so... If we draft well, that's our future when the Sedins retire.
At this point, I feel it's more likely that the team will have to take picks/prospects for Luongo. Not sure the Nucks can swallow a sizeable cap hit in return, unless MG is able to move one or both of Ballard/Booth.
I think getting some draft picks or prospects will help the team. $6 million drop in the cap means that teams will need to bring their young players up and let them play. Just hope Gillis drafts some guys with higher end offensive talent.
