The struggles of Crosby, Kunitz, Hornqvist, and Perron
- Thread starter cassius
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plaidchuck
Registered User
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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This is very true. Which is why it's important for the coaching staff to understand him as a player and not necessarily cater to him but to put him in the best position to succeed. Especially in regards to his linemates and "situational" usage (getting him out there for extra shifts in advantageous situations when he has that extra hop going). Seems like a small thing but he's gone two whole coaching staffs now that either don't get him or don't care to get him.
systemsgo
fire mj
- Apr 24, 2014
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the post isn't just referring to your comment, but the thread as well. the fact is neither one of them has been playing as good as they should be. neither geno nor sid should be excluded from blame. i don't care to grade them on a scale of who's playing worse than the other, just as when they both play well, i don't praise one over the other. they can both do better, and they should be.
JTG
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- Sep 30, 2007
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Geno starts getting that hop, it seems, when he has someone on his line who is sort of bring their game up a notch. Geno is a great player, but he's sort of like a chameleon. When Neal was on fire, Geno was on fire. When Neal was taking stupid penalties, Geno was taking stupid penalties. I think Sprong getting the puck, galloping up ice with it, and trying to create offense would spark Geno a bit in that regard.
With him it's like the chicken or the egg. Does God mode come when Geno starts scoring, or does the scoring come when Geno turns on God mode? Because his gallop seems to come when he gets upset, or someone on his line is having a good game.
Malkin was the best penguine the entire last season to his injury... ppl seems to forget really fast.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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Absolutely. Malkin feeds off of his linemates (and is held back by them) maybe more than any other player I've ever watched come through here. And it doesn't matter how much money they make, their status league-wide or their career totals... if it works, it really works. If it doesn't it really doesn't. It's why FORCING this Hornqvist idea is getting progressively stupider and stupider... at least without a near-ideal LWer to compensate.
I agree that Sprong... even on the wrong side... would likely be a lights-out combination. But you might as well wish for Scuderi being waived... it's about as likely to happen.
Shaftception
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- Apr 6, 2011
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1. The team-wide scoring issues are a logically proven system issue, as it's the only variable in the equation that effects every player on the team. Practically every player with a history of offensive production let alone two generational talents didn't all suffer a case of mass amnesia together forgetting how to score, all at the same time conspicuously on the same team under the same coaching staff. The common denominator are the coaches and more importantly the system, it's the only logical conclusion. There may and probably are other significant negative factors contributing to the offensive drought, but the core problem begins and ends behind the bench.
As was highlighted previously there is an almost exact comparison in recent memory with Ovechkin's outlier years of mediocre production compared to the rest of his career corresponding with the overly-defensive systems implemented in the last year under boudreau and then hunter. The majority assumption at the time was that the "league figured him out" or that he was starting to decline with the stats seeming to agree. But once the team rid themselves of the poor coaching purposefully hindering offensive ability, ovechkin is back to producing at elite levels as if he never stopped despite being years older. Players, even elite ones can only do so much under a system designed, intentionally or not to hinder the advantages of their abilities.
2. That said, In malkin's (and crosby's) case he still deserves some criticism though for such a putrid stretch regardless of the system he's forced to adhere to hindering him so much. As was mentioned above despite coaching undeniably hindering his ability in the past, Ovechkin who they're supposed to rival in talent, could still occasionally create his own scoring changes through will to drive through a defender and manufacture a shot, a scoring chance, anything, system be damned. There's no excuse for that many scoreless games in malkin's case, or going almost two straight games with no attempted shots for crosby, which is imo even more unexcusable. If they're purposefully adhering to johnston's system to that extent results be damned to prove a point then they'd better make sure it's made perfectly clear and soon, before it really is too late.
3. Trading crosby or malkin will never improve the team and there's no realistic argument one could make that will prove that statement wrong. Their high cap hits coupled with their NTC's will ensure the team will never recuperate equivalent value outside of such specific and circumstantial scenarios which would be impossible to predict beforehand that such a trade will never be a net positive for them compared to simply not doing it. There's no logical argument for it outside of purposefully making them worse, or desiring so, hence why such a topic is so popular by outside fanbases every summer.
As was highlighted previously there is an almost exact comparison in recent memory with Ovechkin's outlier years of mediocre production compared to the rest of his career corresponding with the overly-defensive systems implemented in the last year under boudreau and then hunter. The majority assumption at the time was that the "league figured him out" or that he was starting to decline with the stats seeming to agree. But once the team rid themselves of the poor coaching purposefully hindering offensive ability, ovechkin is back to producing at elite levels as if he never stopped despite being years older. Players, even elite ones can only do so much under a system designed, intentionally or not to hinder the advantages of their abilities.
2. That said, In malkin's (and crosby's) case he still deserves some criticism though for such a putrid stretch regardless of the system he's forced to adhere to hindering him so much. As was mentioned above despite coaching undeniably hindering his ability in the past, Ovechkin who they're supposed to rival in talent, could still occasionally create his own scoring changes through will to drive through a defender and manufacture a shot, a scoring chance, anything, system be damned. There's no excuse for that many scoreless games in malkin's case, or going almost two straight games with no attempted shots for crosby, which is imo even more unexcusable. If they're purposefully adhering to johnston's system to that extent results be damned to prove a point then they'd better make sure it's made perfectly clear and soon, before it really is too late.
3. Trading crosby or malkin will never improve the team and there's no realistic argument one could make that will prove that statement wrong. Their high cap hits coupled with their NTC's will ensure the team will never recuperate equivalent value outside of such specific and circumstantial scenarios which would be impossible to predict beforehand that such a trade will never be a net positive for them compared to simply not doing it. There's no logical argument for it outside of purposefully making them worse, or desiring so, hence why such a topic is so popular by outside fanbases every summer.
Asuna
Lvl 94 Sub-Leader
Well, if Crosby and Malkin are adhering to the system so much that it's suppressing their offensive acumen, I guess people can't say they are uncoachable 
The Greatest 101
Registered User
He wasn't fully Johnstoned then.Just get rid of this system asap.As a fan,I hope the damage isn't permanent.
Jacob
as seen on TV
- Feb 27, 2002
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It sucks that our defensive / neutral zone system is such garbage. I could handle a coach that demanded a rigid offensive structure if the defensive side of things was rigid also Like Pat Burns or Lemaire. We have the worst of both worlds. Strict guidelines on how to play with the puck offensively and when we don't have the puck and we're trying to trap it's an absolute circus. Teams just throw pucks up the middle or skate through the neutral zone like we aren't even there half the time. Honestly, it can't be that hard to implement a simple semi-aggressive 1-2-2, it's been around for like 50 years and it's been the go-to system for every NHL team for at least 20.
Remember when Johnston said he was going to employ multiple systems depending on the outlook of the game or the opponent? Including a 1-3-1? What happened to that? Our staff can't even get 1 system right.
Remember when Johnston said he was going to employ multiple systems depending on the outlook of the game or the opponent? Including a 1-3-1? What happened to that? Our staff can't even get 1 system right.
Til the End of Time
Registered User
i wonder how unusual it is for a star of malkins caliber to go pointless this long.
i think sid has gone like 5 or 6 games without a point... how about someone like ovechkin? jagr, kane, toews, kopitar, etc.
anyone have insight?
is this just a regular career low point that almost all stars have or really something notable?
i think sid has gone like 5 or 6 games without a point... how about someone like ovechkin? jagr, kane, toews, kopitar, etc.
anyone have insight?
is this just a regular career low point that almost all stars have or really something notable?
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2003
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Malkin's lack of production is a bit perplexing. With Crosby he looks visibly worse so his dip in production is almost understandable, but Malkin doesn't look like he's much different than a few years ago but he just isn't producing for whatever reason.
Zero Pucks
Size matters
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mpp9
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2010
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Kopitar was garbage last season. Toews scored 3 goals en route to a Cup. Kane was almost run out of town in Chicago in 2011 inbetween Cups. Ovy had his best season in years last year.
Sid and Geno aren't immortals anymore (to quote fallout boy). They're likely going to have dry spells more as they age. Luckily, it looks like they have two stud forwards in Sprong and Kessel longterm to help carry the offense when that happens.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
So if we make it to game 10-15 (after 22 or 23 at the end of last year) where we are playing sub 2 GF/G, management has to look into firing MJ right?
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
Sprong is years away from being given more than 4th line duty though. He hasn't earned it yet or something. Nobody thinks he's staying up after 9 games right now, right?
tom_servo
Registered User
If (when) Sprong's sent back, I hope he leaves us with "Wow, its been nine games already? Felt like only three."
You mean for the few minutes he plays? Because it's only been 2 games, but it feels like a loooong season already.
Wow finally someone who agrees with me.
Except i think you're forgetting Fleury (who overall has been our best player last year).
One thing though i criticize a lot in Geno is his lack of improvement in face offs.
He has to realize how important it is, especially with how hard he finds it to score nowadays.
Agree.
It was actually particularly noticing last year up until his injury: when you were watching the games, you could see he was flying out there, exactly like in 2012 or 2009 but for some reasons, it wasn't showed that much in scoreboard.
