The struggles of Crosby, Kunitz, Hornqvist, and Perron

[Shady Machine]

Lol.Aren't Sens one of Malkin's better matchups either?Remember how people talked about Plots-M-H line after the preseason game against TBL.

The majority of people said they didn't like it but based on how they played against Tampa they were willing to see how it played out.

 

[JTG]

And the fact that Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist was a line that was absolutely cruising last season before the wheels fell off is something that should have been, ya know...recognized?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think maybe that's why I haven't been a huge fan of him - not saying I dislike him. Slow(ish) foot speed, and he's not real hard to play against because he lacks general size and strength. I think he's about a million miles better than Sutter though, and the fact he can create on the 3rd line is crucial. I would like to see Fehr perform in that spot though, just to be able to contrast the two players.

Yeah. It's definitely a change from what we've had for the past decade as 3C, that's for sure. Bonino's far more offensively oriented and capable than Sutter, and could probably put up the same general numbers as Staal did without the defensive aspect.

It's nice to have a 3rd line that isn't complete vanilla garbage for a change.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Bonino is sort of opposite of what I'd like to see on the 3rd line. I'm not knocking him as a player as much as I'm not sure having him as our 3rd line center is what gets us to where we need to be when games get nasty down the stretch.

I think he's a real slick hockey player though, upper level hockey sense, and some good skill. He's sort of trapped between a 2nd and 3rd liner. 3rd liner on a good team, 2nd liner on a bad team.

That seems reasonable. I was actually more about a "traditional" and "heavy" third line, myself. With a speedy/energy/skilled fourth line. So I understand where you are coming from. As much as I hated Sutter... he was a serviceable third line center on most teams. So I had some reservations about Bonino (how good could he be if another GM was shedding him for Sutter?) until Fehr could make it back into the lineup. He's largely laying those fears to rest.

Yup. I didn't see the game last night but it didn't take a genius to put Perron and Hornqvist together. Why it takes our coaching staff so long to do the logical thing (sound familiar with coaches on this team?) I'll never know.

Yeah. I don't get it. I was reasonably sure that Perron, with his skillset, could be a great compliment on the LW to Hornqvist on the RW. I mean... it's pretty obvious considering they were lights-out with Crosby last season. And though Malkin and Crosby are stylistically much different... it shouldn't have been SO much of a stretch that they are forcing Perron to RW and the third line.

It's like... stop being cute. You aren't an innovator. Do what makes sense FFS.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I just want to see an effective bottom-6. I don't care what the style is, I just want to not have to hold my breath and worry about being pinned in our own zone for 45 seconds every time the 3rd or 4th lines are on the ice.

For the first time in years, we have a capable bottom-6, and it's awesome. Now if we could get Sid going, and find a way to land a 2nd pairing defenseman without giving up too much.

 

[td_ice]

If we hurry, we can trade him to the Devils for Zajac and Merill.

As seen on the trade board.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Devils fans absurdly overrate Zajac.

The dude's like a 3rd line center.

 

[Mischa]

And the fact that Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist was a line that was absolutely cruising last season before the wheels fell off is something that should have been, ya know...recognized?

Until hornqvist was moved onto malkins line to try to kickstart him

 

[SEALBound]

And I'd like to see Sid work with Perron and Hornqvist.

I don't see Sid and Kessel having the Malkin-Neal type chemistry. Those 2 look like two awesome hockey players just letting skill take over v. having real chemistry. It was a lot like that when Sid played with Hossa.

I think Geno and Kessel would work well together.

I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I haven't been a huge fan of Bonino.

I agree. I think MJ should be experimenting more in the Top 6 - at least more than just Plots vs Perron.

I think maybe that's why I haven't been a huge fan of him - not saying I dislike him. Slow(ish) foot speed, and he's not real hard to play against because he lacks general size and strength. I think he's about a million miles better than Sutter though, and the fact he can create on the 3rd line is crucial. I would like to see Fehr perform in that spot though, just to be able to contrast the two players.

Bonino hasn't been setting the 3C role on fire, but he is every bit as effective as Sutter was. With that, getting Bono and Clendening and upgrading to the 2nd, well worth it. That third line yesterday was very good for us. I have doubts as to whether Sutter would have been any better.

Plus you are right with Fehr coming back, I think 2 3rd lines are made each played depending on the situation. A Porter-Bonino-Sprong line and a Cullen-Fehr-Bennett/Farnham line could be very nice to have.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Last night Malkin was outstanding. Feed this beast. Give him ice time in all situations and the big man will pay dividends.

Now we have to jump-start Crosby.

 

[SEALBound]

Last night Malkin was outstanding. Feed this beast. Give him ice time in all situations and the big man will pay dividends.

Now we have to jump-start Crosby.

Agreed.

But how do we jumpstart him...he was gifted Kessel...and has regressed.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Agreed.

But how do we jumpstart him...he was gifted Kessel...and has regressed.

Here's my take; Tell him to stop deferring to Kessel 90% of the time, and get that line a lunch pail guy like Plotnikov to do the dirty work and get them the puck.

A big reason for that line not working is because A. Sid's trying WAAAAAY too hard to maximize Kessel's scoring ability and it's killing his own, B. Sid and Kessel have to do the dirty work because Kunitz is either can't because he's lazy, old, won't, some combination of those, or all of the above.

 

[madinsomniac]

Agreed.

But how do we jumpstart him...he was gifted Kessel...and has regressed.

Malkin was giften Plots, but took off when Perron was moved to his line...if only there was someone else to move on Crosby's line...

 

[SEALBound]

Here's my take; Tell him to stop deferring to Kessel 90% of the time, and get that line a lunch pail guy like Plotnikov to do the dirty work and get them the puck.

A big reason for that line not working is because A. Sid's trying WAAAAAY too hard to maximize Kessel's scoring ability and it's killing his own, B. Sid and Kessel have to do the dirty work because Kunitz is either can't because he's lazy, old, won't, some combination of those, or all of the above.

One thing is though, Crosby's game and success was always built on being the lunch pail kind of guy. He simply had the skill set to put up big points while doing it. He's no longer that battle in the corner kind of guy. If Crosby isn't playing the kind of game that has helped define and shape his success...what kind of game WILL lead to success?

Malkin was giften Plots, but took off when Perron was moved to his line...if only there was someone else to move on Crosby's line...

I would have said Bennett...now I'm leaning towards Sprong and am even coming around on a Dupuis possibility.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Sid was never the guy to chase dump-ins or that kind of thing. He carried the puck into dangerous areas, or worked his way out of tight spaces with the puck and made things happen. I don't think that's gone, but with Kunitz loafing around and Kessel's shot, Sid's taken it upon himself to be the guy doing all the dirty work as well as deferring every chance he gets.

To be honest, I think Perron-Hornqvist should be moved to Sid's wing and Plotnikov-Kessel should be tried with Geno. Perron and Hornqvist worked extremely well with Sid for 10 or so games before the entire team exploded. Geno's line with them has been great, but I think Kessel acting like a better Neal for Geno would be out of this world.

 

[themethod7]

One thing is though, Crosby's game and success was always built on being the lunch pail kind of guy. He simply had the skill set to put up big points while doing it. He's no longer that battle in the corner kind of guy. If Crosby isn't playing the kind of game that has helped define and shape his success...what kind of game WILL lead to success?

Truth. Even putting up 100+ pt seasons and scoring at a ~1.4 ppg pace from 2008-2013, the most apt description I'd heard for him was "the most talented grinder in the league". I miss that Crosby...

 

[Til the End of Time]

this is what happens when you suffer a serious concussion as sid did. there has never been a player in the history of the league that missed as much time as sid did due to concussions and came back to be same player as he was before the concussion.

sid might only now be feeling the full effects of the concussion. many of the chronic effects of tbi/cte arent felt until years after the initial trauma.

people were naive to think sid could suffer such a serious injury and not take a significant hit in his play.

 

[Shockmaster]

this is what happens when you suffer a serious concussion as sid did. there has never been a player in the history of the league that missed as much time as sid did due to concussions and came back to be same player as he was before the concussion.

sid might only now be feeling the full effects of the concussion. many of the chronic effects of tbi/cte arent felt until years after the initial trauma.

people were naive to think sid could suffer such a serious injury and not take a significant hit in his play.

Except it really wasn't a concussion, it was a neck fracture. Nice try.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

He's not playing with a lot of confidence right now.

 

[Jacob]

this is what happens when you suffer a serious concussion as sid did. there has never been a player in the history of the league that missed as much time as sid did due to concussions and came back to be same player as he was before the concussion.

Bergeron, Vermette, Pacioretty immediately come to mind.

 

[ColePens]

And the fact that his game is there... His decision making is not. Concussion blame is soooo boring.

 

[WayneSid9987]

He's not playing with a lot of confidence right now.

This is what i'm seeing.
Also could be nursing a minor leg injury imo.

I don't see how you can get a top 5 winger on your RW and play half hearted out there. Something doesn't add up to me.

Inability to breakout effeciently, not much line chemistry is one(or two) thing but the effort/compete/focus has to be better.

 

[canadianguy77]

Except it really wasn't a concussion, it was a neck fracture. Nice try.

That poster has been told numerous times over the last few years that Sid had 2 fractured vertebrae and he/she refuses to consider it. I think that poster has also said that they work in the medical field, (I think he/she said a doctor nonetheless) which makes it even weirder.

I think Sid's problems are a few different things that all came together at around the same time.

1. Brooksie's slapper that made him have to go to get his face put back together. He doesn't hang around the side of the net nearly as much as he did before breaking his jaw.

2. The decline of both Dupuis and Kunitz, with Kunitz obviously being more relevant right now. Sid had to slow his game down to accommodate his line-mates. Also Kunitz playing like he thinks he's a superstar isn't helping matters, especially now that Crosby has Kessel. Someone on that line needs to do the hard work, and it shouldn't be Sid or Phil all the time.

3. The coaching staff and management for not forcing Kunitz to take a lesser role when they knew he wasn't going to acknowledge his declining abilities and volunteer for reduced duties.

 

[cassius]

0 points in 5 games - falling off a cliff

Being paired with Kunitz ain't helping either. That guy is toast.

 

[cassius]

Crosby, Kunitz, Hornqvist, Perron: 1 point combined in 5 games

Statistically - this is almost impossible. Yet it happened.

Obviously something is wrong here - is it a coaching problem? Or are the players just not performing at the level that they should be?

Interested to hear your thoughts - this is just bizarre.