The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Sorinth]

I don't want to see another rookie handed a spot without earning it - with the exeption of Demidov. We have enough youth in the lineup and Demidov is coming next year. There is also enough cap room to sign Evans and Armia, which we know we can't immediately replace without some regression.

No issue if Beck and Mailloux play another year in the AHL. Same with Rienbacher.

I think ideally we would want to trade Gallagher, let Dvorak walk while re-signing Evans and Armia and a borderline NHL/AHL vet in the mold of ABB, Gignac, Richard, etc... That way if young guys are ready they can earn a spot but if they aren't then we give the AHL vet the spot.

Main issue is that even at 50% retained Gallagher might be hard to move, but honestly some rebuilding teams could actually use his brand of leadership. And with Hughes there's always hope given that he somehow turned Hoffman into a 2nd round pick.

 

[Habnot]

I think ideally we would want to trade Gallagher, let Dvorak walk while re-signing Evans and Armia and a borderline NHL/AHL vet in the mold of ABB, Gignac, Richard, etc... That way if young guys are ready they can earn a spot but if they aren't then we give the AHL vet the spot.

Main issue is that even at 50% retained Gallagher might be hard to move, but honestly some rebuilding teams could actually use his brand of leadership. And with Hughes there's always hope given that he somehow turned Hoffman into a 2nd round pick.

I'm not sure why we need to move Gallagher's contract. We will be easily under the cap next year and the year after, Price comes off books. Also, there is not much to get excited by the 2025 UFA class.

Forget the price of the contract, Gallagher is a good vet to have on this team.

 

[Sorinth]

I'm not sure why we need to move Gallagher's contract. We will be easily under the cap next year and the year after, Price comes off books. Also, there is not much to get excited by the 2025 UFA class.

Forget the price of the contract, Gallagher is a good vet to have on this team.

Need is a strong word, so sure we don't NEED to move on from him, but it's the spot where we can see the biggest upgrade both in terms of individual and in terms of fit with the team. For example, as I said in my OP, Gallagher brings leadership, but for us it's of marginal value because of how much and how many of our young guys have been stepping up and taking leadership roles.

 

[Miller Time]

25: Suzuki
23: CC, Dach, Dobes, Xhekaj, Newhook,
22: Guhle, Strubble, Heineman,
21: Roy, Mailloux, Kapanen, Engstrom
20: Hutson, Slaf, RB, Beck, Fowler
19: Demidov, Hage,

The young talent we have, and the level they've been playing at for 20+ games is impressive.

Future is bright

 

[Fuonki]

Gallagher is easily worth his contract, and even if he wasn't trading him away would be an extremely dumb thing to do. Guy has some of the best analytics out of this team like always and even if you believe in none of that he's easily the most experienced and hardest working forward we have. And like the other posters already said, cap space is not a problem for us at all, so why lose player who plays an important role and who is loved by both the locker room and the fans?

 

[ReHabs]

Then results are not the most important thing, they are just one of many things that are important.

We’re referring to competitive sports. Results matter most, everything else falls in line behind results.

There will be instances where a judgement has to be made about long vs short term outcomes and assets have to be managed. A good GM would seek a balance, a bad GM like Bergevin would constantly defer to an uncertain future and refuse to “mortgage” against it even with a superstar on his roster who desperately needs some additional firepower.

In case you needed confirmation: this is my opinion, you can disagree with it and it is perfectly fine.

Unsurprisingly your presumptions are wrong, I didn't include the picks traded for Newhook, nor did I include the pick that was traded for Dach.

“Unsurprisingly”

Another display of discourtesy and rudeness. What’s the point of engaging in conversation if you’re seeking to bicker? Ignore my comments if they bother you so much.

I think we’re short of the assets (value) necessary to acquire multiple big name players. That’s the only thing I’m saying and you are desperately trying to disagree with it. Be my guest. If you actually think that the Habs can acquire a top6 C and a top-pairing D with only futures (and not too many futures so to disrupt our pipeline) and replaceable roster players I would love to see it.

I think we need more assets because those players are not easily acquired. Many more thought the exact same when they insisted the rebuild wasn’t over and the tank was on this year.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Games like this makes me wonder if this where the Habs actually are and the last couple weeks of hockey was just them playing above their heads. The team is so up and down it's hard to pin them down, are they unstoppable or just completely lifeless? Seems like it changes from period to period.

 

[ReHabs]

Games like this makes me wonder if this where the Habs actually are and the last couple weeks of hockey was just them playing above their heads. The team is so up and down it's hard to pin them down, are they unstoppable or just completely lifeless? Seems like it changes from period to period.

It's likely a bit of playing over their heads but they earned most of those points, I reckon. Just like they earned those losses in the first part of the season where we were bottom5 in the league. I can't speak for the ups but the downs and the inability to tighten up seem to me a function of their inexperience playing serious hockey.

The trend is positive but it would be silly to say we're there already... look at NYR, after all the bad news and meltdowns and issues, we're practically tied with them in points (48pts to 47pts, in the same 45 GP). CBJ and OTT have higher pt% than us but you wouldn't think so if you only read the Habs board and the ebullient tone of commentary.

My take is: What we enjoyed since Dec 1st (or mid-Nov) only undoes the horrible start to the season and brings us to... "in the mix". This was where we expected to be anyway. From here on out it gets more steep and more competitive and moves have to be made. Unless the goal of the rebuild was to run headfirst into Pretendership and mediocrity, this process isn't over.

 

[Lshap]

Games like this makes me wonder if this where the Habs actually are and the last couple weeks of hockey was just them playing above their heads. The team is so up and down it's hard to pin them down, are they unstoppable or just completely lifeless? Seems like it changes from period to period.

One game doesn't define the team. We knew we were going to lose a few. Well... last night was one of 'em.

What does define a team is how they respond after a total meltdown. Wanna' know where the Habs are? We'll get a glimpse tonight against the NYR.

 

[Lshap]

My take is: What we enjoyed since Dec 1st (or mid-Nov) only undoes the horrible start to the season and brings us to... "in the mix". This was where we expected to be anyway. From here on out it gets more steep and more competitive and moves have to be made. Unless the goal of the rebuild was to run headfirst into Pretendership and mediocrity, this process isn't over.

That's how I see it, too. We're 'In the mix', as expected. But here's the weird part: We've never actually seen this mythical 'In the mix' team. We've either seen the worst team in the league or the best team in the league. Nothing in between. The two extremes have averaged out to 'In the mix', but we haven't seen them play at that average level.

What we've seen the past month, before last night, is real progress towards becoming a bonafide winning team. But let's not forget that progress includes losses and a few really bad games.

 

[salbutera]

Games like this makes me wonder if this where the Habs actually are and the last couple weeks of hockey was just them playing above their heads. The team is so up and down it's hard to pin them down, are they unstoppable or just completely lifeless? Seems like it changes from period to period.

First period last night was the best hockey Habs have played ALL season - 2nd & 3rd period was the learning opportunity that can only be gained by playing “meaningful games” and why March / April games are vital for the development of the young players

 

[dinodebino]

Still rebuilding. And that doesn’t just mean the roster building; it also involves building the experience and character.

Yesterday, they looked like the 80’s Oilers in the first. And the Habs of the last two seasons after that. Building experience.

Toronto is a veteran team, poised to (finally?) do something in the playoffs. I consider the Figs to be the best regular season team they have faced.

If they maintain a .500 record until the end of the season, it will be mission accomplished for me. I wanted 84 points I believe. We are there right now.

 

[Theodore450]

Team absolutely needs a real 2nd line and dman to support Hutson in tough game like last night

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Then results are not the most important thing, they are just one of many things that are important.

Unsurprisingly your presumptions are wrong, I didn't include the picks traded for Newhook, nor did I include the pick that was traded for Dach.

It’s just more of his schtick. We have more prospects than we know what to do with. And once again we have multiple firsts in this year’s draft. How in the world are we tight on assets?

And the idea that Dach couldn’t garner a mid first is nuts. And why the hell would we want to deal him to begin with?

 

[Archijerej]

Games like this makes me wonder if this where the Habs actually are and the last couple weeks of hockey was just them playing above their heads.

Seriously?

You were, in fact, wondering if we are the best team in the NHL?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Still rebuilding. And that doesn’t just mean the roster building; it also involves building the experience and character.

Yesterday, they looked like the 80’s Oilers in the first. And the Habs of the last two seasons after that. Building experience.

Toronto is a veteran team, poised to (finally?) do something in the playoffs. I consider the Figs to be the best regular season team they have faced.

If they maintain a .500 record until the end of the season, it will be mission accomplished for me. I wanted 84 points I believe. We are there right now.

We have progressed this season. That's what I wanted to see. Playoffs? That would be a bonus. The rebuild is unfolding as most of us have hoped. Dach's return to form has been huge. The Carrier trade was huge. Now you've got guys sitting in the right chair and we're playing well.

More talent on the way. Demidov next year. Beck, Hage, Roy, RB, Mailloux, Fowler, Engstrom all waiting... There's a good influx of talent coming and we may not have spots for all of them. Some of these guys are getting dealt. And then we've got the two firsts this year.

We're in really good shape going forward.

 

[DAChampion]

The Habs can be argued to be tight on surplus grade A assets.

When the Kings started their dynasty, they traded Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Jack Johnson, Colton Teubert, and (two?) firsts for Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, and Dustin Penner.

Could the Habs pull that off?

The present day surplus of Mesar, Roy, Engstrom, Mailloux, etc are arguably grade B assets.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The Habs can be argued to be tight on surplus grade A assets.

When the Kings started their dynasty, they traded Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Jack Johnson, Colton Teubert, and (two?) firsts for Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, and Dustin Penner.

Could the Habs pull that off?

The present day surplus of Mesar, Roy, Engstrom, Mailloux, etc are arguably grade B assets.

Will we need to?

The top six looks pretty awesome already with Demidov coming. Do we need an upgrade there? Not sure that we do. RB will be joining Hutson. Ghule and Carrier look terrific together... and we've got a ton of great young prospects coming including Hage and Fowler. Team is pretty stacked.

As for us not having grade A assets: Fowler, RB, Hage and Demidov would all qualify. But why would we want to trade them away? Matheson will likely be dealt as well next season.

 

[Pietrangelo]

I feel like this is the kind of game that the Habs can benefit from. As long as they have the right mindset moving forward and just take that 7-3 L on the chin they can turn it into a great learning experience. It’ll be interesting to see how they handle the adversity tonight against the rangers. Will they linger on the loss? Or just keep trucking. Hopefully the latter.

 

[DAChampion]

Will we need to?

The top six looks pretty awesome already with Demidov coming. Do we need an upgrade there? Not sure that we do. RB will be joining Hutson. Ghule and Carrier look terrific together... and we've got a ton of great young prospects coming including Hage and Fowler. Team is pretty stacked.

As for us not having grade A assets: Fowler, RB, Hage and Demidov would all qualify. But why would we want to trade them away?

Demidov and Reinbacher are not being traded away so they're not surplus assets.

But Hage, Fowler, and all the 1sts, are more plausible.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Demidov and Reinbacher are not being traded away so they're not surplus assets.

But Hage, Fowler, and all the 1sts, are more plausible.

Trading Hage would be a massive mistake, as would the rest of those assets.

We shouldn’t be falling in love with a hot 1 month stretch, yeah it was impressive and yeah its good for the teams development but that’s all it is. This team is still not good enough to get it done, we’re 2-3 years away. Mortgaging these assets to try and make a push with this roster doesn’t end well, it actually likely ends with the rebuild being a complete failure.

 

[morhilane]

Next step: replace Gallagher by someone who can play at least 60 games in a season since he can only play like 20.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Demidov and Reinbacher are not being traded away so they're not surplus assets.

But Hage, Fowler, and all the 1sts, are more plausible.

Suzuki, Caufield, Demidov are all star to superstar caliber players. Laine and Dach are very good second liners when healthy (Laine actually is a legit first line talent.) Slafkovsky has great potential. That's a pretty good top six.

If we go with that, we could look at putting Hage on a third offensive line. If that happens it gets crowded really fast. Beck, Kapanen, Evans... who centers the 4th? Does Roy make the club? What do we do with Newhook?

We not only have top talent, we have a lot of depth. And we've got two more firsts coming too.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Trading Hage would be a massive mistake, as would the rest of those assets.

We shouldn’t be falling in love with a hot 1 month stretch, yeah it was impressive and yeah its good for the teams development but that’s all it is. This team is still not good enough to get it done, we’re 2-3 years away. Mortgaging these assets to try and make a push with this roster doesn’t end well, it actually likely ends with the rebuild being a complete failure.

Exactly my point. Why trade any of them? We don't need to.

Imagine this scenario: Suzuki, Dach and Hage centering three lines. Caufield, Demidov and Laine on each line. You could balance it out so that we have three scoring lines of equal talent. Add in a Roy to go with Slaf. Maybe you trade off Newhook and get another strong winger. That's crazy scoring depth.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Exactly my point. Why trade any of them? We don't need to.

Imagine this scenario: Suzuki, Dach and Hage centering three lines. Caufield, Demidov and Laine on each line. You could balance it out so that we have three scoring lines of equal talent. Add in a Roy to go with Slaf. Maybe you trade off Newhook and get another strong winger. That's crazy scoring depth.

Exactly, and that’s how you build a perennial contender.