The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hull was absolutely 100% elite.

Exactly. And he was a far worse defensive player than Caufield is.

Now, he also scored 80 goals…. I don’t expect that from CC.

 

[Mrb1p]

What about 20 better centers but one of them has to play in nets?

Hmmm is the center better than Primeau?

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Ya wed be contenders with two better centers than him too.

He’ll be 35 by the time we’re ready to compete anyway, surely he will have lost a step

 

[Mrb1p]

He’ll be 35 by the time we’re ready to compete anyway, surely he will have lost a step

That's true

 

[HuGo Sham]

And the greatest refs in the world, hf mods, just tell you to don't take the bait lol.

f***!

 

[Miller Time]

He’ll be 35 by the time we’re ready to compete anyway, surely he will have lost a step

With 3+ rings on his finger from our cup wins in his late 20's, I'm sure he'll be fine with slotting into a 3C role after the post dynasty re-tool

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Exactly. And he was a far worse defensive player than Caufield is.

Now, he also scored 80 goals…. I don’t expect that from CC.

It was also a different era and different hockey system. Players like Hull who had some defensive weakness (or lazyness) could not hurt the team as much as today. It's like the Oilers of the 80's, they opened the offensive machine as much as it was possible, example other teams would score 5 goals vs them but Oiler would score 7. They were winning that kind of game anyway. And then Lemaire introduced the trap with the Devils and there was no room for all this festival of offence. It's like the animal life, the cobra is a kind of king over all the animals until he meet the mangusta.

 

[Egresch]

Was Brett Hull elite?

Cmon, Hull is top 5 all time, CC is yet to score 30 in season. They are not the same league.

 

[teamfirst]

With 3+ rings on his finger from our cup wins in his late 20's, I'm sure he'll be fine with slotting into a 3C role after the post dynasty re-tool

Future is bright

Cmon, Hull is top 5 all time, CC is yet to score 30 in season. They are not the same league.

It's all about patience and belief

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It was also a different era and different hockey system. Players like Hull who had some defensive weakness (or lazyness) could not hurt the team as much as today. It's like the Oilers of the 80's, they opened the offensive machine as much as it was possible, example other teams would score 5 goals vs them but Oiler would score 7. They were winning that kind of game anyway. And then Lemaire introduced the trap with the Devils and there was no room for all this festival of offence. It's like the animal life, the cobra is a kind of king over all the animals until he meet the mangusta.

It doesn’t matter. Goals determine the winners and losers of hockey games. Goalscoring is the single most valuable contribution a skater can make. Caufield has shown he can score at a rate that’s up with the best in the league.

Say it’s a new league all you wish, at the end of the day teams will always need goalscorers. Caufield has the potential to be among the best. That’s why he’s AA.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Cmon, Hull is top 5 all time, CC is yet to score 30 in season. They are not the same league.

Don’t avoid the point.

Hull was a one way player if ever there was one. He was also a Hart winner and HOFer. Why? Because he scored goals. It’s all he did but it didn’t matter.

Cc is better defensive player than Hull ever was already. He’s not going to score 80 goals but he’s got the potential to be a top ten goalscorer.

That doesn’t mean he will. But the potential is there.

 

[LaP]

It was also a different era and different hockey system. Players like Hull who had some defensive weakness (or lazyness) could not hurt the team as much as today. It's like the Oilers of the 80's, they opened the offensive machine as much as it was possible, example other teams would score 5 goals vs them but Oiler would score 7. They were winning that kind of game anyway. And then Lemaire introduced the trap with the Devils and there was no room for all this festival of offence. It's like the animal life, the cobra is a kind of king over all the animals until he meet the mangusta.

Not sure if you argument Hull would not be an elite player today but if so i personally i think it's silly to argument Hull would not be an impactful player today.

 

[salbutera]

It was also a different era and different hockey system. Players like Hull who had some defensive weakness (or lazyness) could not hurt the team as much as today. It's like the Oilers of the 80's, they opened the offensive machine as much as it was possible, example other teams would score 5 goals vs them but Oiler would score 7. They were winning that kind of game anyway. And then Lemaire introduced the trap with the Devils and there was no room for all this festival of offence. It's like the animal life, the cobra is a kind of king over all the animals until he meet the mangusta.

Habs 1983-1984 season…

 

[BLONG7]

I agree, I would rate Hutson and Demidov AA. To me, Slaf and CC are A while Slaf has higher potential to reach AA status.

I am not $hiting on him, he is a top 6 player for me, but I do not see him as elite.

CC is nowhere near 200ft player and it is naive to think he ever will.
Takeaways 6
Giveaways 17
Defensive zone giveaways 5
Blocks 9
Hits 15

Did you miss........Becoming?? Becoming a 200ft player. He is among the elite goal scorers this season, will he continue?? Maybe.......maybe not.
Many many before him have not been elite, or complete either, and made it to the HOF.

You are nit picking one of our stars.............and he is all of what? 23 years old??

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Not sure if you argument Hull would not be an elite player today but if so i personally i think it's silly to argument Hull would not be an impactful player today.

I would take Hull over Caufield. Hull a machine to score goals, a bit like Ovy. And his father too.
But sure Hull would be one of the top players today. And I'm very happy we have Caufield, he's a snyper, he sees plays on the ice before they happen, his hockey IQ is very high. He's one major piece of the core. But we need another center, equal or better than Suzuki. And a top RH D, maybe Rein will fill that spot, once his injury is gone and few years to adapt, get stronger and become a real grown up man.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Habs 1983-1984 season…

But Habs didn't have the level of talent at that time. There were aging superstars with average players. Team played with heart most of the games. When Bobby Smith came, the team changed for much better.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

With 3+ rings on his finger from our cup wins in his late 20's, I'm sure he'll be fine with slotting into a 3C role after the post dynasty re-tool

You know what, I like the optimism

 

[salbutera]

But Habs didn't have the level of talent at that time. There were aging superstars with average players. Team played with heart most of the games. When Bobby Smith came, the team changed for much better.

Naslund, Bobby Smith, Carbo, Walter, McPhee, Nilan, Lemieux, Chelios (post Olympics), Momesso, Mark Hunter, Ludwig all 25 & under

Kent Carlson (vs Bruins 1st round) & of course Steve Penney played key roles in 1984 playoffs to conf finals vs NYI

By the time playoffs started the team understood what was expected to play Lemaire’s neutral zone trap

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It was also a different era and different hockey system. Players like Hull who had some defensive weakness (or lazyness) could not hurt the team as much as today. It's like the Oilers of the 80's, they opened the offensive machine as much as it was possible, example other teams would score 5 goals vs them but Oiler would score 7. They were winning that kind of game anyway. And then Lemaire introduced the trap with the Devils and there was no room for all this festival of offence. It's like the animal life, the cobra is a kind of king over all the animals until he meet the mangusta.

Lemaire didn't create the dead puck era

In around 92-93, composite sticks were introduced, significantly raising shot speed, which led to much bigger goalie equipment in the following years in order to protect goalies. The league also modified how refs called games, which Lemaire took full advantage of. Never seen a team hook, hold and cause obstruction and get so few penalties in the end, as the Lemaire Devils did. Lemaire's trap was a consequence of what happened, an added factor, but not the cause, ffs.

 

[HuGort]

Habs going to be good team, they add Demidov and Price contract comes off books. Let's them add another star. Plus lesser assets already in Laval.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Naslund, Bobby Smith, Carbo, Walter, McPhee, Nilan, Lemieux, Chelios (post Olympics), Momesso, Mark Hunter, Ludwig all 25 & under

Kent Carlson (vs Bruins 1st round) & of course Steve Penney played key roles in 1984 playoffs to conf finals vs NYI

By the time playoffs started the team understood what was expected to play Lemaire’s neutral zone trap

The post said 83-84, before Lemieux. Chelios played 12 games in 84. Walter was a good warrior but disapointing at the time. Mcphee was a good third line player, Momesso and Mark Hunter were ok but nothing more. That team can't be compared with the Oilers at the very top of the league and Islanders were a more complete team.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Lemaire didn't create the dead puck era

In around 92-93, composite sticks were introduced, significantly raising shot speed, which led to much bigger goalie equipment in the following years in order to protect goalies. The league also modified how refs called games, which Lemaire took full advantage of. Never seen a team hook, hold and cause obstruction and get so few penalties in the end, as the Lemaire Devils did. Lemaire's trap was a consequence of what happened, an added factor, but not the cause, ffs.

I mentioned the trap and you write the dead puck era. Ok these are the same for you, I could agree but you do what, misquoting me? Thanks for the equipment history recap, I did graphic design of a complete hockey equipment catalog at the time and I was amazed by the new technology they used. The rules were the same for all the teams and the Lemaire system was like a machine. It was also at the time the peak of the defensive system and all hockey fans remember the hit Lindros got. Nobody can forget that ugly image. To have a team like the Devils I guess Lemaire was a major factor to decide about the roster and the draft picks,

 

[salbutera]

The post said 83-84, before Lemieux. Chelios played 12 games in 84. Walter was a good warrior but disapointing at the time. Mcphee was a good third line player, Momesso and Mark Hunter were ok but nothing more. That team can't be compared with the Oilers at the very top of the league and Islanders were a more complete team.

As I stated Chelios joined Habs after 1984 Olympics for the remainder of the season & Cinderella playoff run, as did Lemieux. Momesso was a high pick and start power forward coming out of the Q.

The team miraculously snuck into the playoffs, Lemaire took over from Bob Berry but players had trouble grasping Lemaire’s neutral zone trap system he wanted to play (sound familiar), but they figured it out prior to opening series vs Bruins and of course terrific G by Penney’s butterfly style

Even the 86 & 93 teams were nothing special compared to Oilers & Pens, but point still holds Lemaire introduced the trap w Habs team after being named head coach, a system that stayed w them coach after coach

 

[salbutera]

I mentioned the trap and you write the dead puck era. Ok these are the same for you, I could agree but you do what, misquoting me? Thanks for the equipment history recap, I did graphic design of a complete hockey equipment catalog at the time and I was amazed by the new technology they used. The rules were the same for all the teams and the Lemaire system was like a machine. It was also at the time the peak of the defensive system and all hockey fans remember the hit Lindros got. Nobody can forget that ugly image. To have a team like the Devils I guess Lemaire was a major factor to decide about the roster and the draft picks,

Uncle Lou left all draft decisions to David Conte, which is why NJD were so enamored w NCAA players despite playing in an era that was size obsessed: Gionta, Gomez, Rafalski…

Uncle Lou played minor league baseball in Trois Riviers in the 60s which was the first time he was exposed to hockey, by virtue of the Habs regular Cup success. He modeled the NJD after Pollock’s management style - it’s also the reason why so many former Habs were hired as coaches or traded for as players

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

As I stated Chelios joined Habs after 1984 Olympics for the remainder of the season & Cinderella playoff run, as did Lemieux. Momesso was a high pick and start power forward coming out of the Q.

The team miraculously snuck into the playoffs, Lemaire took over from Bob Berry but players had trouble grasping Lemaire’s neutral zone trap system he wanted to play (sound familiar), but they figured it out prior to opening series vs Bruins and of course terrific G by Penney’s butterfly style

Even the 86 & 93 teams were nothing special compared to Oilers & Pens, but point still holds Lemaire introduced the trap w Habs team after being named head coach, a system that stayed w them coach after coach

I could agree Lemaire introduced the trap with the Habs but the 2 SC (86 and 93) wins he was behind the scene, he wasn't the head coach. Hockey fans outside Mtl will remember Lemaire's trap as a coach and that was with the Devils. His trap system was more recognisable with the Devils, with the Habs it looked like an hybrid system.

And you're right, a team might have the best trap system of the world, without a top goalie it doesn't go far. Penney had a very short series of wins in PO. When Roy arrived, it changed the whole equation.