The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[ReHabs]

You were quick to jump to the conclusion that Slaf was off track, wasn't developing, and that it was a serious problem with the pick and management and that you were justified to criticize him rather then be patient with him. You are doing the same with Dach & Newhook, yes they are having unproductive seasons, but like with Slaf's rookie year, an unproductive year doesn't automatically equate to being off track, or not developing, nor should you dismiss calls for being patient with young guys because it's perfectly normal for young guys to struggle. The ones who succeed go through those struggles and in time figure things out and emerge, the ones who bust go through those struggles and don't eventually figure it out. But either way we should be patient and give them the time they need to figure things out.

The catch-all term “Young players” (as in: "be patient and don't complain, they're young players") is meaningless if you think a rookie from Slovakia (intl ice + language barrer) and a Canadian D+5 NHL veteran and Stanley Cup Winner are identical. If you have such low expectations of NHL players, that’s perfectly fine and your perspective to hold in whatever discussions that arise.

My point is simply saying “patience.” and demanding silence is not going to work in this case. Fans have a variety of expectations and prior impressions. Alex Newhook in his 4th full NHL season should not be on pace for a 4th liner's output with 14min a night. There are plenty of valid discussions to be had about his performance and production.

As for Dach, I hope it's his post-injury that's in the way of his performance but he doesn't look good or engaged at all. Demanding "patience." doesn't change the fact he doesn't look good and it directly affects our team's performance.

If either of Newhook or Dach had a history of production, a body of work, we would have an entirely different discussion but chasing after unproven potential that looks as far as it ever has... is like chasing a shadow and demanding the rest of us to also chase the shadow. Nah, not going to happen.

 

[yianik]

There is no chance a team can draft all of key pieces such as 2C, first pairing D, #1G followed by a 3C and 1 scoring W with 1 2nd pair Dman and also wait for them to develop.
Right now on the roster, they have Suzuki, Caulfield, Slaf, and Guhle to hang your hat on. Hutson improving to be their main offensive D. But, this is 1 C, 2 W, 2 D.

You need to go and acquire a couple of those pieces via free agency (but at their stage now, hard to convince guys to take that leap of faith), or you make a trade for those pieces.

Waiting for Fowler to be your #1 goalie, he's doing his SO year at BC right now. He will need time in the AHL to carry the load and some time as a backup in the NHL.

Agreed. What you have to do is draft well and hope you have redundancies so you can make trades, or pick off a UFA or two. Maybe you move Reinbacher to a just starting to rebuild team to get an older RHD that can step in now and be a big presence for the next 4-5 years in the top pair , as an example.

 

[LaP]

What’s this “they will be good in 26-27” BS in this thread? That’s completely fabricated; all we know is habs suck and we can hope the guys they drafted are even able to play in the nhl somewhere down the line, never mind being good. Everything is yet to manifest, including with 90% of the hab current roster players. It’s all hope and no results; there is no magic 2026 switch.

Will be watching Laval with interest..

I'm not sure why this is relevant though. I mean this is true of most things in life. This is true of the stock market. This is true of a first date. True of hiring a new employee. Most things in life are based on potential of something to be rather that something that already is. Should we stop doing anything because nothing is certain? I mean this is a "state of the rebuild" thread if there was certainty then the rebuild would be over and tjhis tgreade closed. People here are talking about potentiel and they should not have to specify this every goddam posts honestly. The reality is Slaf is a very good prospect people can spin this as much as they want what he did last year doesn't happen that often. Demidov is a good prospect. Mailloux, Beck and Roy are having very good season in the AHL for 20-21 years old players. Nothing is certain some of them will bust but that should not prevent people to talk about their potential and realistically we have a good prospects pool and some guys around here are overly negative about things.

 

[Sorinth]

There are plenty of valid discussions to be had about his performance and production.

If you did a deep dive analysis of why Newhook or Dach's production is way down this year compared to last year or even the years before then I must have missed it, but yes it certainly would be a something worthy of discussion and debate. But if your idea of a valid discussion is as shallow as saying they suck and are playing bad, then it shouldn't be surprising that you get equally shallow responses.

 

[ReHabs]

If you did a deep dive analysis of why Newhook or Dach's production is way down this year compared to last year or even the years before then I must have missed it, but yes it certainly would be a something worthy of discussion and debate. But if your idea of a valid discussion is as shallow as saying they suck and are playing bad, then it shouldn't be surprising that you get equally shallow responses.

There are plenty of ways to engage with this topic, not everything needs a deep dive. Readers here don't like deep dives anyway.

My initial comment in this vein was simply to say there are many cases of fans (and teams) chasing after a player's promise/potential. Such a statement doesn't need a deep dive because it's simply true. Habs fans especially should know.

 

[Sorinth]

There are plenty of ways to engage with this topic, not everything needs a deep dive. Readers here don't like deep dives anyway.

My initial comment in this vein was simply to say there are many cases of fans (and teams) chasing after a player's promise/potential. Such a statement doesn't need a deep dive because it's simply true. Habs fans especially should know.

Yes but how you engage will impact the responses you get. If your engagement is shallow, and indistinguishable from complaining for the sake of complaining then you'll get the response you got.

And a statement that Hab fans are impatient and love to complain over nothing is also something that is simply true and we all know.

 

[ReHabs]

And a statement that Hab fans are impatient and love to complain over nothing is also something that is simply true and we all know.

Newhook is on pace for 21 pts.
Dach is on pace for 36 pts.
The Habs are dead last in the division.

In case you haven’t kept up.

 

[JianYang]

Damn, how great would it be to pick up Hagens/Malone/Misa this year.. the final piece to our top 6.
Stop crying guys - we arent moving up. We are not going to be anything more than a bottom feeder this year..

We have yet to fill our top 6 with "true" game changers.. right now the only top 6 we have are:
CC - suzuki - Slaf - Laine - Demidov.
Bubble: Dach (only as wing)

Outside the above players, nobody in our roster even comes close to an NHL top 6.

We also have complete, absolute garbage for a bottom 6:
Dvo- Andy- newhook- Gally- pez. They need to go, like yesterday..

Bottom 6 value:
Roy- Evans- Beck- Hage- Heinmann- Xhekaj- Xhekaj- Tuch.

Bottom 6 garbage: Mesar- kidney- trudeau. These guys are AHLers at best.. Mesar might have trade value for a 3rd rounder..

I'm not really looking at the standings. I'm more focused on whether the team can show some development over the course of the year in terms of play without the puck. Too many times, it looks like a complete clown show. I understand our horses are not great, but there's a difference between making mistakes due to a lack of horses and making mistakes due to overall confusion and sometimes lack of effort.

I can deal with mistakes because of a lack of horses, but eventually, you at least have to see some stretches this year where they are improving on the latter, and that will be on the coaches and players alike.

The organization already emphasizes skill so I'm not too concerned that they will eventually get there, or at least take the proper steps to get there from a talent standpoint but the jury is out on a team defense standpoint.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I've been thinking about this lately and it is totally fair to say that a regression year can be seen as the expectation or norm for a rebuilding team, especially a team with such a young D.

What I will say though - while not cause for major concern yet, it does prove that the rebuild moves have not been flawless so far, and the moves we made to accelerate the rebuild have not panned out yet - we've received very little value from Dach, Newhook, Barron, and Laine (not his fault).

We will need some of these guys to really step it up in order for the rebuild to be on the right track. If we can acknowledge this, I think most of us can find a pretty mutual common ground with where we are at in the rebuild.

I have already resigned myself to another tank year but I'll keep cheering for wins where we can get them because they are such a rare occurrence these days.

 

[teamfirst]

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
- Jeff Lebowski

Agree

 

[teamfirst]

Newhook is on pace for 21 pts.
Dach is on pace for 36 pts.
The Habs are dead last in the division.

In case you haven’t kept up.

Can't bring such facts in here, you are being overly negative sir..

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Similarly, it’s fine to argue that you don’t want a rebuild. But when you say that rebuilds don’t work, it’s just factually wrong.

Rebuilding isn’t a guarantee- but nothing is. The vast majority of cup winners are rebuilds. That doesn’t mean that if you rebuild you’ll win a cup though.

'Rebuilds work' or 'Rebuilds don't work' started losing all its meaning - at least on here - when people here started naming just about any damn team that ever picked high without looking at what they actually did. And when that was pointed out you'd get some variation of 'who cares! They drafted high!' which is ridiculous and makes the entire argument completely meaningless because just about every team's picked high post-lockout.

 

[LaP]

Can't bring such facts in here, you are being overly negative sir..

You can. But there's a difference between saying Andam Fantalli is on pace for 38 points and Adam Fantalli is a bust 100% confirmed. The problem is people keep busting players under the age of 23. You don't like those players and you don't like KH fine. I've got no problem with that. But i've got a problem with busting players under the age of 23.