The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Kimota]

We need to start thinking of Dach as a 3C and build him into that role. He is capable defensively despite the league worst +/-

And it really isn’t the end of the world if he becomes an elite 3C who can play 2C in a pinch.

Get him used to the defensive reps and he can still be a valuable player on a contender, and he’ll never need to make more than 4.5 mil


From 5th worst to 2nd worst is pretty terrible considering they added players to help the team and other teams are going through more deliberate tanks

That actually hurt me physically thinking Dach's future is as a 3C.

 

[McGees]

Isn't Savard our RD vet?
We are trading him to get another one?
I confuse

 

[Mrb1p]

Isn't Savard our RD vet?
We are trading him to get another one?
I confuse

He's a bottom pair D. We need a true top 4, a quality one.

 

[StreetHawk]

Isn't Savard our RD vet?
We are trading him to get another one?
I confuse

At the TDL he's likely going to be gone. Are you just going to swap his spot for Mailloux and be done? That would not be wise. They need to ship out 1 or maybe 2 of Barron/X/Struble to bring in the veterans they need.

 

[LaP]

Isn't Savard our RD vet?
We are trading him to get another one?
I confuse

A better one. Have you been watching the games? I like Savard good guy and he had a good career but he's been as bad as the kids this year. We need a better vet someone who can solidify the defense on the right side. Someone like Harmlik when he sihned here.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I’m beginning to think some people just like losing and vaguely hoping for a better tomorrow. Nothing else explains the fans’ ambivalence to the regression.

That is, unless they’re certain none of Dach, Xhekaj, Newhook, Monty, etc will remotely feature in our glorious future.

Shame we had to miss out on Bedard in order to preserve the “winning culture”…

I think some fans indeed seem to now prefer the illusion of future potential wins than winning itself. Boisvert said to Marinaro he does not care when a team starts winning, he focus on the rebuild itself. Some fans seem to think like him.

For me the rebuild is a means to an end : winning. Now it has become an end in itself.

 

[McGees]

A better one. Have you been watching the games? I like Savard good guy and he had a good career but he's been as bad as the kids this year. We need a better vet someone who can solidify the defense on the right side. Someone like Harmlik when he sihned here.

weird cause when I said we should have traded him last year at deadline, everyone wanted to keep him.
We are getting good at holding assets until they are anchors.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think some fans indeed seem to now prefer the illusion of future potential wins than winning itself. Boisvert said to Marinaro he does not care when a team starts winning, he focus on the rebuild itself. Some fans seem to think like him.

For me the rebuild is a means to an end : winning. Now it has become an end in itself.

Anaheim has been out of the PO since 2019 season. 6 years going on 7 now. This is the reality of a rebuild. It’s long and painful.

 

[Habby4Life]

I think some fans indeed seem to now prefer the illusion of future potential wins than winning itself. Boisvert said to Marinaro he does not care when a team starts winning, he focus on the rebuild itself. Some fans seem to think like him.

For me the rebuild is a means to an end : winning. Now it has become an end in itself.

Yep, some fans think if we keep drafting top 5 for many yrs to come we will improve and be a contender.

Some are ok, with losing and not playing meaningful games past October. Always next year.

 

[Tabarouette]

I understand where you guys are coming from but really, you NEED elite talent for a successful rebuild to lead to something good, we're still *hoping* some of them will be that (demidov? hutson?), that's one basic but also very important part of the rebuild

Hope is not good enough tho that's the problem, we keep drafting until we break this f***ing curse of never ever drafting franchise players and THEN. you move forward

Moving forward based on hopes and dreams is partially what happened to Ottawa and Detroit

 

[HabsCode]

I understand where you guys are coming from but really, you NEED elite talent for a successful rebuild to lead to something good, we're still *hoping* some of them will be that (demidov? hutson?), that's one basic but also very important part of the rebuild

Hope is not good enough tho that's the problem, we keep drafting until we break this f***ing curse of never ever drafting franchise players and THEN. you move forward

Moving forward based on hopes and dreams is partially what happened to Ottawa and Detroit

We need a two-way stud towering defenseman, I know its a forward heavy draft this season, but I think we are missing this key piece to compete. Hopefully Demidov is our game breaker upfront and Fowler becomes a steady presence in front of the net.

I agree our core is still not enough, still missing some game breaker, most likely to come through the draft.

 

[LaP]

I understand where you guys are coming from but really, you NEED elite talent for a successful rebuild to lead to something good, we're still *hoping* some of them will be that (demidov? hutson?), that's one basic but also very important part of the rebuild

Hope is not good enough tho that's the problem, we keep drafting until we break this f***ing curse of never ever drafting franchise players and THEN. you move forward

Moving forward based on hopes and dreams is partially what happened to Ottawa and Detroit

The problem is people assume so have not drafted an elite player before they turn 23. We have not drafted a generational player but some of the guys we drafted might become elite. I mean Kucherov took 4 years before breaking the ppg barrier at 23. Same for MacKinnon (5 years 22 yo).

 

[WeThreeKings]

weird cause when I said we should have traded him last year at deadline, everyone wanted to keep him.
We are getting good at holding assets until they are anchors.

Their price was a 1st rounder and it wasn't met. We are talking about a team that needs more contributing veterans today and we should have traded one that is appreciated by the locker room for a 2nd?

Yep, some fans think if we keep drafting top 5 for many yrs to come we will improve and be a contender.

Some are ok, with losing and not playing meaningful games past October. Always next year.

How often was this team playing meaningful games past October?

What about this team?

Or this team?

Rebuilds don't just end and you don't just jump out of bottom 5 of the league in one off-season, especially when only 2 players that have been acquired through that rebuild are currently on the team, at age 20.

What about other teams that have been rebuilding or started rebuilding at the same time as us?

Hmmm Celebrini with Smith and the Sharks aren't playing meaningful games.
Anaheim (a team this board will cry about how good their drafting is) isn't looking to be playing any meaningful games with Gauthier, Carlsson, MacTavish, Mintyukov, Zegras, etc.
Chicago with generational Bedard isn't doing much better than us and they also started their rebuild the same year as us.
Philadelphia with generational Michkov and all of his can't miss scoring isn't playing more meaningful games than us and just proved last year was an aberration not an indication of a strengthened core; and one of the most applauded systems coaches in Tortorella is getting about the same output as green peewee Marty.

 

[Tabarouette]

The problem is people assume so have not drafted an elite player before they turn 23. We have not drafted a generational player but some of the guys we drafted might become elite. I mean Kucherov took 4 years before breaking the ppg barrier at 23. Same for MacKinnon (5 years 22 yo).

sure, but the flipside is we're *always* waiting for our guys to turn out to be great at 23 and they never do so it's hard to believe in anything at this point

for once in my life i'd love to draft someone, have him on the ice the next year and not think "damn this guy is really bad but I hope he'll be good 4 years from now!", you know

Guess who was our last Calder trophy winner

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

The poor training camp and Laine injury i think took a lot of wind out of the likes of Suzuki, Caufield and Slaf

I think they saw a possible step forward and it crashed down quickly.

The losing is becoming mentally tough i think and you have terrible veteran leadership. Something you can fully blame management for

Add it a coaching staff who is inexperienced themselves who seem hell bent on re-inventing coaching. They seem very new agey so to speak but it is failing to hit

The next step is to move deck chairs in my opinion. Dont stray from rebuild but replace the Dvoraks, Andersons and Mathesons of the team, with more meat and potato, will stand up and push back types. They might not add wins, but add the team element

 

[WeThreeKings]

The poor training camp and Laine injury i think took a lot of wind out of the likes of Suzuki, Caufield and Slaf

I think they saw a possible step forward and it crashed down quickly.

The losing is becoming mentally tough i think and you have terrible veteran leadership. Something you can fully blame management for

Add it a coaching staff who is inexperienced themselves who seem hell bent on re-inventing coaching. They seem very new agey so to speak but it is failing to hit

The next step is to move deck chairs in my opinion. Dont stray from rebuild but replace the Dvoraks, Andersons and Mathesons of the team, with more meat and potato, will stand up and push back types. They might not add wins, but add the team element

I don't know how you fully blame them.. you can't do much when you're capped out from your predecessor.

The math is Laine and a 2nd or two mediocre UFA veterans for around 4m a piece for term in a 2-5 year range.

The failure is that I'm sure they believed that Dvorak and the crew would provide more than they are. But we are finally at the end of his contract, Armia's contract is up, and Savard will likely be dealt or re-signed for much cheaper and shorter term.

At that point they can have the financial flexiblity and roster flexibility to go out and look to add some veterans that might bring the qualities they feel they lack.

I don't think enough perspective is given to just how much Bergevin's moves and cap management put the new regime in a leglock.

 

[junyab]

sure, but the flipside is we're *always* waiting for our guys to turn out to be great at 23 and they never do so it's hard to believe in anything at this point

for once in my life i'd love to draft someone, have him on the ice the next year and not think "damn this guy is really bad but I hope he'll be good 4 years from now!", you know

Guess who was our last Calder trophy winner

You do know that Ken Dryden was 24 when he won the Calder, yes? 7 years after his draft year. If drafting a superstar having him skip development in the A, and becoming a Calder winner at 19, is your ideal way of being happy with this team you should find something else to cheer for.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

I don't know how you fully blame them.. you can't do much when you're capped out from your predecessor.

The math is Laine and a 2nd or two mediocre UFA veterans for around 4m a piece for term in a 2-5 year range.

The failure is that I'm sure they believed that Dvorak and the crew would provide more than they are. But we are finally at the end of his contract, Armia's contract is up, and Savard will likely be dealt or re-signed for much cheaper and shorter term.

At that point they can have the financial flexiblity and roster flexibility to go out and look to add some veterans that might bring the qualities they feel they lack.

I don't think enough perspective is given to just how much Bergevin's moves and cap management put the new regime in a leglock.

Well then they read the situation wrong of what was needed. Maybe leadership was needed more than Laine

again, read Dvorak wrong. Had two yrs to see that

it is management job so absolve them all you want and blame Bergy. Its literally their job

 

[Tabarouette]

You do know that Ken Dryden was 24 when he won the Calder, yes? 7 years after his draft year. If drafting a superstar having him skip development in the A, and becoming a Calder winner at 19, is your ideal way of being happy with this team you should find something else to cheer for.

My favorite argument, trust the process for another 34 years while everyone else takes turn having a fun time finding elite talent or watch something else

complacency at its best, please call me a fake fan next

 

[LaP]

Well then they read the situation wrong of what was needed. Maybe leadership was needed more than Laine

Hard to know Laine is not playing. Not playing leadership would not be more useful than not playing Laine. Depth would be lacking either way.

My favorite argument, trust the process for another 34 years while everyone else takes turn having a fun time finding elite talent or watch something else

complacency at its best, please call me a fake fan next

How can it be your favorite argument since it does not exist? What everyone is saying is be patient at least 5 years. 5 < 34. It's mathematic. You got to cross the bridge when you get to it.

 

[junyab]

My favorite argument, trust the process for another 34 years while everyone else takes turn having a fun time finding elite talent or watch something else

complacency at its best, please call me a fake fan next

You're expectations are unrealistic. The number of 19yr olds coming into the league and dominating are few and far between.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Hard to know Laine is not playing. Not playing leadership would not be more useful than not playing Laine. Depth would be lacking either way.

we dont know whether helps winning or culture. We do know something is lacking in the right mindset

Dvorak is likely classic addition by subtraction

Couldnt imagine playing with a guy who cares so little.

 

[Tabarouette]

Hard to know Laine is not playing. Not playing leadership would not be more useful than not playing Laine. Depth would be lacking either way.


How can it be your favorite argument since it does not exist? What everyone is saying is be patient at least 5 years. 5 < 34. It's mathematic. You got to cross the bridge when you get to it.

i'll double check those maths, let me get back to you

 

[WeThreeKings]

Well then they read the situation wrong of what was needed. Maybe leadership was needed more than Laine

again, read Dvorak wrong. Had two yrs to see that

it is management job so absolve them all you want and blame Bergy. Its literally their job

But they can't do anything about it unless you wanted them to trade 2nds and 1sts to dump their contracts?

It's a mystery whether leadership is more needed than Laine since Laine got hurt and hasn't played yet.

I will absolve them because we know the currency it takes to dump underperforming hockey players with money and term in the current salary cap environment post covid. There was no way to get rid of Armia or Dvorak without using high picks to dump them.. the cost is more prohibitive to get rid of Gallagher.

This Summer is when they can really be scrutinized.. That's when most of the anchors are gone except for Anderson and Gallagher who are at least showing up and playing to their talent level this year, I think we can say both are providing the leadership they can.

The financial flexibility opens up, they'll have a lot of data on the players in Laval and in Montreal. They'll be armed with a lot of picks and prospects to look for the right fits.

Everything else is premature.

 

[Tabarouette]

You're expectations are unrealistic. The number of 19yr olds coming into the league and dominating are few and far between.

Dominating? sure, agree, it's rare. Looking like they could be something special? no it happens pretty often actually, Hutson is looking like that so I am pretty happy with him

Not to single him out too hard for an example, but I sure don't feel good about the way Slafkovsky plays this year, this is not normal, he shouldn't look this invisible most games, that grinds my gear, kid needs to wake up and show us something if he really has *it*. A shift here and there where he takes over the game, anything more than a bunch of secondary assists please I beg of you