The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[LaP]

Connor McMicheal and Aliaksei Protas are two good examples of why we should be patient. Both were struggling at 20-21-22 and both are doing well this year at 23. Before a young player turns 23 we should not come to any comclusion about him.

 

[RationalExpectations]

It's pretty obvious why this organization has never gone full rebuild...their fans can't handle it.

They say it's what they want, but they don't really want it lol.

What is a rebuild for you ? 10 years of losing and playing like crap ? If it does not work ten more years of playing like that ?

In addition, this is not a typical rebuild : officially MTL starts the 4th season of the HuGo era but part of the core they built on is already mostly in their D+6 - D+8 (Dach Newhook CC Suzuki).

 

[417]

honestly, agreed, we are collectively a little too eager to compete and i'd rather not end up in the Sens or Red Wings situation by rushing it

BUT, as a partial defense, I do think they shot themselves in the foot by spending the entire camp saying everyone was sleeping on them and they'd be in the mix. They riled up the dog at 11pm and now wonder why the dog won't go to bed

Meh what else are they supposed to say? Never thought that was anything more than lip service.

This is the same team that finished bottom 5, 3 years in a row. There might be individual growth with certain players but collectively, there's still too much deadwood.

We’ll have a better idea of where this is going in February/March/April.

Right now there's just too much reactionnary takes.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

It's pretty obvious why this organization has never gone full rebuild...their fans can't handle it.

They say it's what they want, but they don't really want it lol.

Although I agree with you , we've never went full rebuild , we tried to half ass it and be smart. Matheson would not be on the team if we went full rebuild tank mode ,we wanted one foot in the mix one foot in the rebuild.

The fanbase just can't handle management saying they want to be in the mix but then have us get blown out every night

 

[LaP]

The same strategy is used in the AHL. You have to surround your young players with solid AHL veteran leadership.

Our kids are surrounded by vets. They are just not the right vets. And sadly most of them are untradeable. We have 6 vets on offense (Gallagher, Anderson, Armia, Dvorak, Evans, Pazetta) so considering 13 forwards that almost half the lienup. We have two vets on defense which is almost a third of the defense.

KH kind of had his hands tied for this season. I'm 120% sure he tried to trade Dvorak and Armia already. Next season only the Anderson-Evans-Gallagher line and Matheson will remain. The Evans line is playing well so not a trouble but we will need to add a top 6 vets probably i don't think Newhook is a top 6 player. As for the defense we'll have to replace Savard by someone younger who can play in the top 4. Also i know lot of people like Matheson but with Hutson in the lineup i don't think Matheson is a good fit at all.

 

[417]

What is a rebuild for you ? 10 years of losing and playing like crap ? If it does not work ten more years of playing like that ?

No certainly not. But it's also not 2.5 years either.

In addition, this is not a typical rebuild : officially MTL starts the 4th season of the HuGo era but part of the core they built on is already mostly in their D+6 - D+8 (Dach Newhook CC Suzuki).

Kent Hughes became GM of the Montreal Canadiens on January 18th, 2022...in January 2025, it will be 3 years since he took over.

4th season isn't quite accurate.

There's a bit of a two-pronged approach here by HuGo, where they're stripping the team from their predecessor's anchors, while building up the future that they've put together.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Although I agree with you , we've never went full rebuild , we tried to half ass it and be smart. Matheson would not be on the team if we went full rebuild tank mode ,we wanted one foot in the mix one foot in the rebuild.

The fanbase just can't handle management saying they want to be in the mix but then have us get blown out every night

Matheson has been used as canon fodder against top lines. It makes sense to have someone like that when you’re rebuilding.

We have so many picks and prospects on the way it’s nuts.

 

[Tabarouette]

Meh what else are they supposed to say? Never thought that was anything more than lip service.

This is the same team that finished bottom 5, 3 years in a row. There might be individual growth with certain players but collectively, there's still too much deadwood.

We’ll have a better idea of where this is going in February/March/April.

Right now there's just too much reactionnary takes.

heh i'm trying to stay level-headed, I know we will have a better idea by then but I don't like what i'm seeing on a deeper level tbh, i'm like a broken record at this point but

- None of them can handle the puck except for Hutson and it's so concerning, they cannot deal with forecheck at all and we rush passes à l'aveuglette every shift
- The team either doesn't show up on time, or gives up on plays. That's a massive red flag
- They're extremely undisciplined on change ups, they extend shifts and get stuck in their own zone (especially the first line)

a lot of the issues are supposed to be fundamentals, they're not new hockey players despite being young...

 

[417]

Although I agree with you , we've never went full rebuild , we tried to half ass it and be smart. Matheson would not be on the team if we went full rebuild tank mode ,we wanted one foot in the mix one foot in the rebuild.

The fanbase just can't handle management saying they want to be in the mix but then have us get blown out every night

Well they should be smart about it...it's hard to go full rebuild when you've got contract anchors that are difficult to move and a strain on your ability to improve the team in the immediate.

Matheson is just a matter of time and frankly, he's likely our best sellable asset right now.

The fanbase just isn't patient and they're not happy, unless they're unhappy.

That's just the truth.

 

[expy]

Although I agree with you , we've never went full rebuild , we tried to half ass it and be smart. Matheson would not be on the team if we went full rebuild tank mode ,we wanted one foot in the mix one foot in the rebuild.

The fanbase just can't handle management saying they want to be in the mix but then have us get blown out every night

We couldn't really go "full rebuild" though, we were, and still are, handicapped by Bergevin's moves and contracts.

 

[417]

heh i'm trying to stay level-headed, I know we will have a better idea by then but I don't like what i'm seeing on a deeper level tbh, i'm like a broken record at this point but

- None of them can handle the puck except for Hutson and it's so concerning, they cannot deal with forecheck at all and we rush passes à l'aveuglette every shift
- The team either doesn't show up on time, or gives up on plays. That's a massive red flag
- They're extremely undisciplined on change ups, they extend shifts and get stuck in their own zone (especially the first line)

a lot of the issues are supposed to be fundamentals, they're not new hockey players despite being young...

It's always darkest, right before there's light?

I got nothing else man lol...look I 100% get it, I haven't been able to get through too many full games this season because it's difficult to watch. But I know, rather, i'm confident that what i'm watching now, isn't going to be this way forever.

 

[LaP]

No certainly not. But it's also not 2.5 years either.

I love how some people go from 2.5 years to 10 years. That's some serious mental gymnastics.

Kent Hughes became GM of the Montreal Canadiens on January 18th, 2022...in January 2025, it will be 3 years since he took over.

4th season isn't quite accurate.

I think when evaluating a rebuild you must use the draft metric. It's been 3 drafts. So even using this metric it had not been 4 years. It has certainly not be 4 seasons.

 

[417]

I love how some people go from 2.5 years to 10 years. That's some serious mental gymnastics.

I know it seems like its longer, because we're intertwining the last 5 years of MB's reign...

But Hughes really hasn't been on the job all that long, he really started to put his footprint on this team in the Summer of 2022.

It's not an overnight operation, but when you look at what he's done to set up the next 3-5+ years, it's very encouraging IMO.

 

[LaP]

I know it seems like its longer, because we're intertwining the last 5 years of MB's reign...

But Hughes really hasn't been on the job all that long, he really started to put his footprint on this team in the Summer of 2022.

It's not an overnight operation, but when you look at what he's done to set up the next 3-5+ years, it's very encouraging IMO.

Yeah but you can't do that. MB was trying to win and he signed many bad contracts to vets and some of those contracts are tying our hands atm. Those players are not even good in the case of Armia and Dvorak. Had MB sold at the 2020 deadline then yeah you could say 5 years but had MB sold at the 2020 deadline we would be in a much better position as Danault, Petry and Gallagher were all worth a 1st and a decent prospect. So that would add 6 good prospects to our pool and those prospects would all be 23+ by now so entering their prime.

 

[Benstheman]

I'M pretty confident we're moving in the right drection. What will be the end result?? Good little team?? Top 10 team like Carolina?? Cup contender?? No one knows.

I'm pretty sure we will have more great pieces than we ever had in the last 30 years. But we will also need to add the perfect supporting cast if we want to be cup contenders one day.

 

[417]

Yeah but you can't do that. MB was trying to win and he signed many bad contracts to vets and some of those contracts are tying our hands atm. Those players are not even good in the case of Armia and Dvorak. Had MB sold at the 2020 deadline then yeah you could say 5 years but had MB sold at the 2020 deadline we would be in a much better position as Danault, Petry and Gallagher were all worth a 1st and a decent prospect. So that would add 6 good prospects to our pool and those prospects would all be 23+ by now so entering their prime.

But that's my point...I think fans are unconsciously doing it.

HuGO haven't been on board for that long, it's a bit odd for me to see people freaking out when 95% of this fanbase wanted them to rebuild.

That's what they're doing but they also inherited some contract anchors.

 

[Seb]

I'M pretty confident we're moving in the right drection. What will be the end result?? Good little team?? Top 10 team like Carolina?? Cup contender?? No one knows.

I'm pretty sure we will have more great pieces than we ever had in the last 30 years. But we will also need to add the perfect supporting cast if we want to be cup contenders one day.

The perfect supporting cast is currently in Laval. We'll be in a great spot when the current bottom 6 gets replaces by the kids.

All we have to hope is that our dmen develop as supposed and that one of Dobes, Fowler or Volokhin becoems a #1 goalie.

With Demidov and Hage in our system (and potentially the next draft's picks) I'm not worried with our top 6 anymore.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The perfect supporting cast is currently in Laval. We'll be in a great spot when the current bottom 6 gets replaces by the kids.

All we have to hope is that our dmen develop as supposed and that one of Dobes, Fowler or Volokhin becoems a #1 goalie.

With Demidov and Hage in our system (and potentially the next draft's picks) I'm not worried with our top 6 anymore.

That and they need to start identifying some players to get.. Dach and Newhook were a good start, even if Dach has been injured and is starting to warm back up and Newhook has been ice cold.

But they have to do some more of that, like what was done in Florida.. find the Sam Bennetts, find the Forslings, we gotta start finding some external solutions that add, speed, grit and talent to fortify the group.

We can't just wait for everyone to develop in the AHL to come in and do the bottom 6, they'll make too many mistakes. They'll be people when developed who can come in and allow us to trade some people for more futures and sustain the model.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

we've never went full rebuild , we tried to half ass it and be smart. Matheson would not be on the team if we went full rebuild tank mode ,we wanted one foot in the mix one foot in the rebuild.

I couldn't disagree more.

Matheson is a young veteran that has made giant steps under St-Louis, logging a ton of minutes, improving greatly and takes his leadership responsibilities seriously.

You don't have to go scorched earth to rebuild and most of the time, probably shouldn't.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Rebuild the rebuild.

We're still heavily handicapped by Bergevin's moves, so I'll give it another 2-3 years before this team competes in any capacity.

Still weak on defence, missing proper offensive talent (nobody can keep up with Hutson, which is sad), and need to finf a #1 goalie and a good backup as well (we don't need any of our existing goaltenders).

There is not a need to rebuild the current core, the first one isn't even done yet. Rebuild won't be fully complete until all the bad contracts are off the team (hopefully HuGo don’t resign more).

Until now we are to the cap, with hard if not impossible contract to move. As time goes, the bad apples will leave the team and management will have more room to build around the young core.

 

[teamfirst]

Well they should be smart about it...it's hard to go full rebuild when you've got contract anchors that are difficult to move and a strain on your ability to improve the team in the immediate.

Matheson is just a matter of time and frankly, he's likely our best sellable asset right now.

The fanbase just isn't patient and they're not happy, unless they're unhappy.

That's just the truth.

Yeah, maybe you're right, we all should stop watching-caring-posting

 

[417]

Yeah, maybe you're right, we all should stop watching-caring-posting

You're free to do whatever you please, just as I am.

I just prefer to remain consistent; this is what I wanted, I knew the road ahead wouldn't be filled with sunshine and lollipops, maybe you convinced yourself otherwise.

I just don't have sympathy for that personally.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Yeah, maybe you're right, we all should stop watching-caring-posting

The gaslighting from some posters on “patience” is pretty funny to me. We’ve finished in the bottom 5 three years in a row and there’s an excellent chance it could be 4 after this season but we’re “impatient” for asking to see some progress. Lol I think most Habs fans have been incredibly patient during this process.

 

[Andy]

Folks the rebuild was always going to take time. HuGo essentially had a forward pipeline of Suzuki and Caufield.

Also worthy of note is that not a single player drafted between 2022-2024 is carrying their team right now. So it's not like it's a matter of picking the right person.

The Hawks, Sharks, Ducks all still suck despite having lottery picks in the same timeframe as the habs.

Wright, Bedard, Celebrini, Carlson, Michkov, Smith...none of these guys are bringing their teams out of the lottery pack. Nemec, Cooley were part of teams tanking long before 2022.

We are underestimating just how holes this team has had to fill.

 

[Tabarouette]

Also don't forget that being a fan of this team is constant suffering so Suzuki/Caufield will get sick of losing and ask for a trade next season to go immediately win a cup elsewhere

not to mention the season ending injury Demidov will have at training camp