The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Lafleurs Guy]

Would need a mega plus, something I'm not willing to pay.

That depends on who we get.

I'd much rather go after a UFA and flip Matheson for a first.

We have a million picks. To the point where we’re overflowing with prospects. It’s time to use it as currency. A bit of vet presence on the back end makes sense for our incoming prospects. It also allows Guhle to move back to the left side and put Hutson at number one PP.

UFAs are overpaid mercenaries looking for the most money. Plus they’re hard to land - if the player profile you want is even there to begin with - Just trade for the guy you want.

 

[Redux91]

They do have the ammunition, but is there any team that would be willing to trade a 1st pair RD? Beside Calgary with Rasmus Andersson, there isn't any plausible trade target.

You really have to draft and develop to get one. Colorado really hit the jackpot with Makar.

Feels more like they have to take a gamble on a 'not as yet established as a #1RD but secretly about to become one' type deal
Which is evidently... easier said than done lol

 

[HabzSauce]

Gorton wanted to make sure, but of course he was on the table for every team, but when you are picking top 7 and the prospect you are thinking about selecting is giving you the run around, and has the power to stay in Russia and leverage that into what they want, that does enter the equation.

What we do know is that Friedman confirmed that Michkov and his agent played the process to get to Philly as best they could.

We know that Michkov was seen as potentially the best talent in the draft outside of Bedard, yet he went all the way to Philly at 7.

We can reasonably give the edge to Carlsson and Fantilli as centers with size over Michkov. But then San Jose took Smith over Michkov. Montreal took Reinbacher. Arizona took Simashev.

We know Philly wanted 5 to get Reinbacher, so clearly felt they could get Michkov at 7 or that they valued Reinbacher higher.

We know Nashville tried to get up to 5 to take Reinbacher.

We know the noise entering the draft were teams trying to get 5 to take Reinbacher and not move up to get Michkov.

Michkov met with Philly twice, including a secretive meeting with the top parts of the organization there and he didn't do that with any other team.

The math maths here and Michkov got what he wanted. If you are to bash the Habs for making that decision, you have to also apply that same logic to the San Jose Sharks. Let's be real, in no universe, one for one, without anything else going on, that a team would take Smith over Michkov, right?

Sure I believe there were factors, and I'd absolutely bash SJS just as much as I would MTL (If RB ends up sucking and michkov goes on to scores multiple 100+ seasons).

The 3 year wait is definitely something to consider and that's likely why SJS picked Will Smith, and we (along with several other teams) were fighting for Reinbacher. I think there may have been other factors too like his "attitude issues". Idk if that's more rumor BS or if teams were actually concerned with his firey and competitive drive. If true that is ridiculous.

And I also think scouting michkov may have been very difficult for a lot of teams. Idk how many games they got to scout with the whole Russia thing going on. Not a whole lot I wouldn't think. So that could have also been a reason why teams were looking the other way.

I'm just challenging the whole idea that Michkov said no to the Habs and that's why we ended up going with next BPA which was Reinbacher. That I don't believe. Michkov was clear BPA however he comes with his own risks, and Habs decided no thanks and went with RB instead. As did ANA, CBJ, SJS. I will give a pass for Arizona because I don't think Michkov would ever agree to go there for obvious reasons

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

If Guhle can stay healthy this franchise will be in good hands.

Guhle and Hutson

 

[Tyson]

Guhle and Hutson

%

 

[WeThreeKings]

Sure I believe there were factors, and I'd absolutely bash SJS just as much as I would MTL (If RB ends up sucking and michkov goes on to scores multiple 100+ seasons).

The 3 year wait is definitely something to consider and that's likely why SJS picked Will Smith, and we (along with several other teams) were fighting for Reinbacher. I think there may have been other factors too like his "attitude issues". Idk if that's more rumor BS or if teams were actually concerned with his firey and competitive drive. If true that is ridiculous.

And I also think scouting michkov may have been very difficult for a lot of teams. Idk how many games they got to scout with the whole Russia thing going on. Not a whole lot I wouldn't think. So that could have also been a reason why teams were looking the other way.

I'm just challenging the whole idea that Michkov said no to the Habs and that's why we ended up going with next BPA which was Reinbacher. That I don't believe. Michkov was clear BPA however with his own risks, and Habs decided no thanks and went with RB instead. As did ANA, CBJ, SJS. I will give a pass for Arizona because I don't think Michkov would ever agree to go there for obvious reasons

But the calculus changes if Michkov wants to be here and tells the Habs he can get over to North America in 1 year, opposed to the 3 year contract he had.

At that point if they make the Reinbacher pick and it's clear Michkov was the better pick, then the heat is warranted.

But if a guy is telling one team one thing and other's something else.. that tells me that player didn't want to be here, so we don't know what happens if we draft him and he threatens to extend in Russia unless he gets traded to Philly or something like that.. look at the bath Philly had to take trading Gauthier when he wanted out.

There's enough around the Michkov situation to understand it wasn't just player vs. player when making a high pick there. It's too high value of a pick to leave anything up to chance, and I think the fact the Habs used the 'culture' word around Reinbacher, they might have known a bit from Bobrov's connections in SKA that there was a desire on Michkov's part to go to a certain franchise or place.. and taking someone who doesn't want to be on your team would be a part of that culture equation. They clearly don't want people who don't want to be here and I wouldn't either, regardless of how talented that player is.

It's just not as simple as BPA in this circumstance and we have enough coming out of the whole process now that confirms it had many layers to it.

 

[Leto]

Feels more like they have to take a gamble on a 'not as yet established as a #1RD but secretly about to become one' type deal
Which is evidently... easier said than done lol

I was going to make a point about paying the big bucks for a 27 YO Rasmus Andersson and I just realized I'm slightly older than him .

 

[Habs]

And that’s totally fair. Maybe he’ll be a terrible pick or not worth where we selected him. Not all of our prospects will work out, that’s almost a certainty.

But let’s give the guy a chance before shitting all over him. Is that okay?

I can't shit on his play since he's broken again

Those guys aren't nearly at the same level as what we are talking about. There are not a surplus of right shot defenseman with that profile. That's why they consistently go very high in the draft.

You don't know what level Reinbacher is because he hasn't played, so until then he is not at the same level as anyone on this team. Fair?

 

[Mrb1p]

We have a million picks. To the point where we’re overflowing with prospects. It’s time to use it as currency. A bit of vet presence on the back end makes sense for our incoming prospects. It also allows Guhle to move back to the left side and put Hutson at number one PP.

Picks can later be used to shore up the roster, and the prospects picked too can be used for the same.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I can't shit on his play since he's broken again

And yet you’ll shit in him anyway.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Picks can later be used to shore up the roster, and the prospects picked too can be used for the same.

We have a good young roster. I think forwards wise it’s okay as is.

The blueline is so green though, especially on the right side. And Matheson is in the last year of his deal… might as well just make a trade now.

 

[Habs]

And yet you’ll shit in him anyway.

Not if he's a difference maker. But if he's a 15pt shutdown D, I'm going full Pejorative Slur on him

 

[WeThreeKings]

I can't shit on his play since he's broken again



You don't know what level Reinbacher is because he hasn't played, so until then he is not at the same level as anyone on this team. Fair?

OK then you don't know what level Michkov is because he hasn't played so if I said

why use a top 5 pick on Michkov, you can find a small soft offensive winger on waivers or on UFA every year.. Gallagher, Barre Boullet, etc.

Is that a fair comment to make? No, because we are clearly dealing with higher upsides than that.. any player can bust, take a look at the drafting history of teams who rebuilt and won the Stanley Cup.

Penguins:
Ryan Whitney at 5 over Lupul, Steen, Cam Ward.
Marc-Andre Fleury at 1 instead of Eric Staal, Suter, Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Parise etc. etc.
Jordan Staal at 2 over Jonathan Toews and Niklas Backstrom

Washington:
Steve Eminger over Steen & Cam Ward
Eric Fehr over Getzlaf, Perry, Parise etc.
Sasha Pokulok over Tuuka Rask
Karl Alzner over McDonagh, Pacioretty, Couture

Tampa Bay:
Brett Connolly over Skinner, Fowler, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov
Koekkoek over Forsberg, Wilson, Teravainen
Drouin over Jones, Lindholm, Monahan, Horvat, Morrissey, Theodore

So let things play out, that's all anyone is asking for people to do.

 

[Trenbohabs]

#1RD should and is the next target/step

It is the only thing HuGo should be focusing on next summer imo
Trade/sign , wtv it takes.

Reinbacher was drafted to be a #1RD and he will be our #1RD. What we need is a #3 or 4 RD to complete our top 4.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not if he's a difference maker. But if he's a 15pt shutdown D, I'm going full Pejorative Slur on him

And you’ll do it this year while he’s on the IR. You’ll do it next year in his first few games… You’ll do it if/when Michkov wins the Calder.

 

[Trenbohabs]

The comparable to Pietrangelo is in reference to the fact you keep talking about how Reinbacher has to do this offensively and that offensively to be worth the pick.. but people keep using comps like Pietrangelo, Suter, Slavin, Hamrlik to describe the style, that offense can be generated without flash and that those defenseman are extremely valuable even if they are boring to watch.

Outside of KevSkillz, an eternal optimist, and maybe a few outliers, I don't think anyone expects Reinbacher to have the same career as Pietrangelo in terms of production and overall impact; but that stylistically that is what he does. It's not sexy but it matters.

He was never drafted to be a Makar. That doesn't stop someone from being a valuable defenseman.

people who know hockey know Reinbacher will be an elite D man. I've seen several former NHL coaches like Guy Boucher and Bob Hartley say Reinbacher will be a stud. Idk why i repeat my self on a forum full of trolls that only look stats, but the first mistake was to not make him come over in the AHL in 2023. Playing in the Swiss league in a terrible team with different coaches didnt help.

 

[Archijerej]

The best thing for this team is to suck 1 more year. Get a bottom 3 finish.

When everyone, starting from the team captain, through management to owner tells you this is pretty much the nightmare scenario, you should probably reconsider.

Look at your roster and make improvements.

They have brought in at least one prime-aged (or nearing prime age) player virtually every season they've been in charge. They've traded for Dach, flipped a washed up Petry for Matheson, brought Newhook and paid peanuts for Patrik Laine.

In the meantime, they have succesfully integrated into the team prospects like Guhle, Slafkovsky and dare I say Hutson?

I don't know about you, but I don't remember anything similar since I've started following this team in 2003.

I wanted the rebuild. But let’s be real this roster is dogshit and need real direction behind it.

Could you be a little bit more specific? What direction do you have in mind?

The average age of our roster is 25,40, which makes it the second youngest in the NHL, behind Buffalo. You have decided that this roster is shit. I mean, fine, your opinion is as good as mine, but would you be so kind and tell me if it's irreversibly shit? And if so, how do you determine such a thing on a second youngest roster in the league? I'm genuinely interested.

They do have the ammunition, but is there any team that would be willing to trade a 1st pair RD? Beside Calgary with Rasmus Andersson, there isn't any plausible trade target.

Andersson seems like an almost too logical of atrade target. If Hutson establishes himself this season and we can afford to part with Matheson then the following looks like an excellent top 3, starting next season:

Guhle - Andersson
Hutson -

We surely have the ammunition and cap space to pull this off.

 

[Habs]

OK then you don't know what level Michkov is because he hasn't played so if I said

why use a top 5 pick on Michkov, you can find a small soft offensive winger on waivers or on UFA every year.. Gallagher, Barre Boullet, etc.

Is that a fair comment to make? No, because we are clearly dealing with higher upsides than that.. any player can bust, take a look at the drafting history of teams who rebuilt and won the Stanley Cup.

Penguins:
Ryan Whitney at 5 over Lupul, Steen, Cam Ward.
Marc-Andre Fleury at 1 instead of Eric Staal, Suter, Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Parise etc. etc.
Jordan Staal at 2 over Jonathan Toews and Niklas Backstrom

Washington:
Steve Eminger over Steen & Cam Ward
Eric Fehr over Getzlaf, Perry, Parise etc.
Sasha Pokulok over Tuuka Rask
Karl Alzner over McDonagh, Pacioretty, Couture

Tampa Bay:
Brett Connolly over Skinner, Fowler, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov
Koekkoek over Forsberg, Wilson, Teravainen
Drouin over Jones, Lindholm, Monahan, Horvat, Morrissey, Theodore

So let things play out, that's all anyone is asking for people to do.

Drafting is about betting and ceiling potential. Depending on your team's status, you probably chase goal scoring first over a questional dman's ceiling. It wasn't a choice of a sniper vs Makar, or that we have loads of offense either. BTW I wasn't stuck on Michkov I was a Leonard fan. We need a side betting pool for this debate and yes it will take a couple years to see how it plays out. But I don't recall feeling this way about many first round picks and such question marks. We joked about Slaf, but you could see the tools were there and the scouts agreed.

This pick though, it may be right for some teams.. I would rather have beefed up the forward lines with some goals and built the blueline by trading away some picks/players UFA etc.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Would need a mega plus, something I'm not willing to pay.

I'd much rather go after a UFA and flip Matheson for a first.

Not much out there through UFA. Ekblad is the only impact RD UFA this summer but I can't imagine Florida won't figure out how to extend him. The next best RD options are Fabbro and Savard with not much else behind them. There's Provorov, Lindgren, Gavrikov, Chychrun, and Theodore on LD and some of those guys have played RD before but not sure that's the best fit for us (and Theodore's the best of the bunch but likely gets an extension from Vegas).

Not that I'm opposed to the concept of trading Matheson and adding a UFA/veteran D in general but I don't think we'll find a top pair RD that way. Savard is probably a top 3 RD on the UFA market for this summer.

 

[Habs]

people who know hockey know Reinbacher will be an elite D man. I've seen several former NHL coaches like Guy Boucher and Bob Hartley say Reinbacher will be a stud. Idk why i repeat my self on a forum full of trolls that only look stats, but the first mistake was to not make him come over in the AHL in 2023. Playing in the Swiss league in a terrible team with different coaches didnt help.

You are trolling just as hard by claiming he will be 'Elite'. Ohh and Hartley and Boucher??? Really? That's what you are going for? Boucher who's idea of exciting hockey is implementing the 1-3-1 and taking scoring out of the game?

And you’ll do it this year while he’s on the IR. You’ll do it next year in his first few games… You’ll do it if/when Michkov wins the Calder.

Nah, I think by that point there's not much more to say.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Drafting is about betting and ceiling potential. Depending on your team's status, you probably chase goal scoring first over a questional dman's ceiling. It wasn't a choice of a sniper vs Makar, or that we have loads of offense either. BTW I wasn't stuck on Michkov I was a Leonard fan. We need a side betting pool for this debate and yes it will take a couple years to see how it plays out. But I don't recall feeling this way about many first round picks and such question marks. We joked about Slaf, but you could see the tools were there and the scouts agreed.

This pick though, it may be right for some teams.. I would rather have beefed up the forward lines with some goals and built the blueline by trading away some picks/players UFA etc.

Drafting is about acquiring players that will play for your team and add value in ways that contribute to winning the Stanley Cup.

Getting a right shot defenseman who can transition the puck, kill plays and activate offensively, while being able to skate with the high end skaters in the league but also engage with the physical players in the league, are extremely rare.

They made the decision that it was an ingredient they felt was prudent to acquire over getting Michkov. The following draft they got Demidov and Hage to address the offense. They picked up Laine with a 2nd round pick for a defenseman they needed to move.

They have two more first round picks this year.

We may not get another chance to draft a Reinbacher, we got another chance to draft a Michkov and we took it. This year we will likely be able to add even more to our forward group as the viable RD prospects for this draft all look extremely underwhelming.

When you watch the Habs draft video, what did they say about Reinbacher? That every team that's won a Stanley Cup had this type of player playing a big role.

They valued the whole situation differently than you and they, plus the player, deserve to let things play out before bashing the kid every which way.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nah, I think by that point there's not much more to say.

I rest my case.

 

[Trenbohabs]

Drafting is about betting and ceiling potential. Depending on your team's status, you probably chase goal scoring first over a questional dman's ceiling. It wasn't a choice of a sniper vs Makar, or that we have loads of offense either. BTW I wasn't stuck on Michkov I was a Leonard fan. We need a side betting pool for this debate and yes it will take a couple years to see how it plays out. But I don't recall feeling this way about many first round picks and such question marks. We joked about Slaf, but you could see the tools were there and the scouts agreed.

This pick though, it may be right for some teams.. I would rather have beefed up the forward lines with some goals and built the blueline by trading away some picks/players UFA etc.

ceiling potential is based on people on the internet? I'm pretty sure the organisation had him at a clear #1RD just like the 10 teams after MTL that would've drafted him. Imagine if we took Michkov and didnt want to play here like Gauthier did, we wouldve been f***ed! Leonard would've been a good pick, but this team needed a #1RD badly and we drafted that guy. Give him 2 years, this years injury is very unfortunate though.

If we took Leonard, we wouldve been stuck with Parekh or Yakemchuk which is terrible to win a cup (if i predict they will never be 2 way studs like Pietrangelo/Doughty) Reinbacher is that guy. Also look at Pietrangelo stats in the OHL, he never dominated offensively but I think Pietrangelo to win a cup WAY WAY WAY before Fox and Quinn Hughes or Karlsson GHG

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Drafting is about acquiring players that will play for your team and add value in ways that contribute to winning the Stanley Cup.

Getting a right shot defenseman who can transition the puck, kill plays and activate offensively, while being able to skate with the high end skaters in the league but also engage with the physical players in the league, are extremely rare.

They made the decision that it was an ingredient they felt was prudent to acquire over getting Michkov. The following draft they got Demidov and Hage to address the offense. They picked up Laine with a 2nd round pick for a defenseman they needed to move.

They have two more first round picks this year.

We may not get another chance to draft a Reinbacher, we got another chance to draft a Michkov and we took it. This year we will likely be able to add even more to our forward group as the viable RD prospects for this draft all look extremely underwhelming.

When you watch the Habs draft video, what did they say about Reinbacher? That every team that's won a Stanley Cup had this type of player playing a big role.

They valued the whole situation differently than you and they, plus the player, deserve to let things play out before bashing the kid every which way.

On this point we’ve already drafted another Michkov type player in Demidov.

 

[Trenbohabs]

You are trolling just as hard by claiming he will be 'Elite'. Ohh and Hartley and Boucher??? Really? That's what you are going for? Boucher who's idea of exciting hockey is implementing the 1-3-1 and taking scoring out of the game?



Nah, I think by that point there's not much more to say.

im trolling? Boucher coached like what 500 games in the NHL, Hartley is coaching since 40 years? And you, what have you done my man? Jesus some people are delusional