The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[morhilane]

If we don't make any strides again this year the playoffs will be a huge leap next season.
.500 is realistic but it's not a given.

As far as our special teams go an aggregate of 100% would be a decent improvement but far from excellent.
17.46 and 76.53 last year compared to say Tampa who were 28.63 and 83.33
The reason I chose Tampa is because they ended up fourth in our division.
I'm really not sure where we can make the most improvements if not on special teams.

Despite being 4th in the division last year, Tampa had the top PP in the league and their PK finished 5th as well. They sucked at 5v5, they were 5th in 5v5 GA and had a differential of -19 at 5v5 (their total differential for the season is +23).

But yes, Habs need to improve on the special teams, the defending 6v5 (1st in GA and only the Sharks had a worst differential) and the PK especially (3rd in GA). That's where they hemoraged goals last year. They also need to score more everwhere, not just the PP.

 

[Rapala]

Despite being 4th in the division last year, Tampa had the top PP in the league and their PK finished 5th as well. They sucked at 5v5, they were 5th in 5v5 GA and had a differential of -19 at 5v5 (their total differential for the season is +23).

But yes, Habs need to improve on the special teams, the defending 6v5 (1st in GA and only the Sharks had a worst differential) and the PK especially (3rd in GA). That's where they hemoraged goals last year. They also need to score more everwhere, not just the PP.

It kind of accentuates my point about the importance of special teams in this league.
Tampa still ended up with 98 points. I'm curious about just how much effort was put in 5v5 by Tampa.
Looking at our results we know if one or two players are off we are done we push have to push hard all the time.

 

[morhilane]

It kind of accentuates my point about the importance of special teams in this league.
Tampa still ended up with 98 points. I'm curious about just how much effort was put in 5v5 by Tampa.
Looking at our results we know if one or two players are off we are done we push have to push hard all the time.

They ended up with 98 points because they had the 11th best PP since the 1969-1970 season. I would almost call it an anomalie, only McDavid/Draisailt as done better since like 1985.

Habs just don't have the guns to rely on the PP to win their season.

 

[Nedved]

I would give an A. I don't think we're finished the rebuild, but the collection of picks, stop gaps, waiting to clear space, the risk reward of Monahan and Laine, landing Demidov and Hutson, the signing of MSL.

I think we're 3 years away from being cup contenders.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It kind of accentuates my point about the importance of special teams in this league.
Tampa still ended up with 98 points. I'm curious about just how much effort was put in 5v5 by Tampa.
Looking at our results we know if one or two players are off we are done we push have to push hard all the time.

Even strenght is even more important as more than 3/4 of games (and goals) is spent at even strenght.

I bet if the Habs performed well on special teams and totally sucked at EV, we'd hear just as many complaints and we'd hear all about the importance of even strenght play. Like nothing else matters.

To me personally, I'd rather my team be good at EV first and foremost.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Despite being 4th in the division last year, Tampa had the top PP in the league and their PK finished 5th as well. They sucked at 5v5, they were 5th in 5v5 GA and had a differential of -19 at 5v5 (their total differential for the season is +23).

But yes, Habs need to improve on the special teams, the defending 6v5 (1st in GA and only the Sharks had a worst differential) and the PK especially (3rd in GA). That's where they hemoraged goals last year. They also need to score more everwhere, not just the PP.

Those are empty net goals which is kinda expected since we were the team to lose the most games by one goal. San Jose had far less tight games, so their worst differential has more to do with inefficiency than the Habs.

I agree about the PK and I would also add that our powerplay wasn't so bad production-wise, but it's the shorties allowed that killed it's true differential.

 

[admiralcadillac]

No elite 1C and no elite 1D = no contention.

You might be able to get away with missing one or the other, if you have exceptional depth and talent at all other positions, but you can’t get away with missing both.

People need to wake up to this fact. If the rebuild ends without the acquisition of at least one of those pieces, it was an utter failure. Unfortunately, that’s looking like a real possibility, unless a miracle or two happens.

Suzuki may be a 1C yet, and we have not seen where Dach can go.

As far as a 1D, we’ll see but we do have a good pipeline.

 

[The Last Red]

Suzuki may be a 1C yet, and we have not seen where Dach can go.

As far as a 1D, we’ll see but we do have a good pipeline.

Suzuki is a 1C now, but he’s not “elite.”

 

[Garbageyuk]

Suzuki may be a 1C yet, and we have not seen where Dach can go.

As far as a 1D, we’ll see but we do have a good pipeline.

Suzuki is a 1C, just not the kind you win Cups with. Like I said, it could happen with what we have, but it’s going to take a couple miracles, for lack of a better term.

Let’s say:

•Suzuki continues to progress and becomes a 90-100 point C, for a few years, not just as a peak for one season.

•One of the young D becomes a legitimate all situations #1 two-way D - we’re talking at least top 15 in the league.

•Dach develops further and becomes a 70-80 point 2C.

At least one of the first two needs to happen, along with #3. I think we have the depth part covered. Even one of those happening is a long shot, let alone 2/3. 3/3 happening is basically a pipe dream.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Suzuki is a 1C, just not the kind you win Cups with. Like I said, it could happen with what we have, but it’s going to take a couple miracles, for lack of a better term.

Let’s say:

•Suzuki continues to progress and becomes a 90-100 point C, for a few years, not just as a peak for one season.

•One of the young D becomes a legitimate all situations #1 two-way D - we’re talking at least top 15 in the league.

•Dach develops further and becomes a 70-80 point 2C.

At least one of the first two needs to happen, along with #3. I think we have the depth part covered. Even one of those happening is a long shot, let alone 2/3. 3/3 happening is basically a pipe dream.

We have no idea if Suzuki is not a 1C you win cups with lol. He’s on the trajectory of players like Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron or O’Reilly.

He may never get to their level, but he’s still very young…

Also, just for your education, how many 70-80 point 2Cs do you think there are in the NHL right now? My guess is somewhere around zero. Your comment suggests they’re common.

 

[Garbageyuk]

We have no idea if Suzuki is not a 1C you win cups with lol.

We know he isn’t currently, which why I said he’ll need to improve significantly if he’s going to be that.

He’s on the trajectory of players like Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron or O’Reilly.

You may as well file that under the miracle category in my post above as #4. You just proved my point.

Also, just for your education, how many 70-80 point 2Cs do you think there are in the NHL right now? My guess is somewhere around zero. Your comment suggests they’re common.

I didn’t suggest that at all; I said we’ll need that if we’re going to be without either one of an elite 1C or an elite 1D. Also, just for your education, the number isn’t zero, so you guessed wrong.

 

[admiralcadillac]

We know he isn’t currently, which why I said he’ll need to improve significantly if he’s going to be that.

You may as well file that under the miracle category in my post above as #4. You just proved my point.

I didn’t suggest that at all; I said we’ll need that if we’re going to be without either one of an elite 1C or an elite 1D. Also, just for your education, the number isn’t zero, so you guessed wrong.

None of what you’re saying as fact is anything other than an opinion lol.

How many teams have two centremen at 70-80 points? Amongst cup winners too?

Yeah it isn’t « 0 » but there weren’t even 24 centres with 70 points last year.

Surely you understood that before « educating » me.

 

[Garbageyuk]

None of what you’re saying as fact is anything other than an opinion lol.

How many teams have two centremen at 70-80 points? Amongst cup winners too?

Yeah it isn’t « 0 » but there weren’t even 24 centres with 70 points last year.

Surely you understood that before « educating » me.

You’re missing the point, repeatedly.

I didn’t say we need a 70-80 point 2C. I said we will if we are going to be missing one of the other two more important pieces.

How many Cup winners are there that did not have a C better than Suzuki? The answer to that actually is zero. That isn’t opinion, that’s fact.

How many Cup winners are there that did not have a top flight D? I can think of just two in the cap era - the Penguins the year Letang was out, and the ‘06 Hurricanes. Coincidentally (or maybe not so much), both those teams just happened to have 70-80 point (or better) 2Cs.

Are you starting to get the picture yet, or do you need more educating?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You’re missing the point, repeatedly.

I didn’t say we need a 70-80 point 2C. I said we will if we are going to be missing one of the other two more important pieces.

How many Cup winners are there that did not have a C better than Suzuki? The answer to that actually is zero. That isn’t opinion, that’s fact.

How many Cup winners are there that did not have a top flight D? I can think of just two in the cap era - the Penguins the year Letang was out, and the ‘06 Hurricanes. Coincidentally (or maybe not so much), both those teams just happened to have 70-80 point (or better) 2Cs.

Are you starting to get the picture yet, or do you need more educating?

There is no picture. Habs will be deeper at every position than probably all Cup winners. They may not have a McDavid etc but they will be much more solid top to bottom.

 

[admiralcadillac]

You’re missing the point, repeatedly.

I didn’t say we need a 70-80 point 2C. I said we will if we are going to be missing one of the other two more important pieces.

How many Cup winners are there that did not have a C better than Suzuki? The answer to that actually is zero. That isn’t opinion, that’s fact.

How many Cup winners are there that did not have a top flight D? I can think of just two in the cap era - the Penguins the year Letang was out, and the ‘06 Hurricanes. Coincidentally (or maybe not so much), both those teams just happened to have 70-80 point (or better) 2Cs.

Are you starting to get the picture yet, or do you need more educating?

You aren’t painting a picture, you’re berating me with your false assumptions. Players can get better, Suzuki is not far from being one of the best centres in the NHL. I’m willing to be patient.

 

[Garbageyuk]

You aren’t painting a picture, you’re berating me with your false assumptions.

What would those be?

Players can get better, Suzuki is not far from being one of the best centres in the NHL.

Yes, and like I’ve said repeatedly, he will have to be if he’s going to be the guy. And again, even he does get to that point, we will still need at least one of the other two things to happen.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

What would those be?

Yes, and like I’ve said repeatedly, he will have to be if he’s going to be the guy. And again, even he does get to that point, we will still need at least one of the other two things to happen.

How hard is it toi understand that if you have 3 centres around Suzuki level now (which will improve) Dach, Suzuki, Hage/Demidov, Kapanen that you don't necessarily need a McDavid.

 

[Big Lurk]

Quick question.
Why is Caufield still on the powerplay?
Im only half kidding when I say it. But at this point, do we have another RH option on the half wall?
He doesnt shoot it. He doesnt one-time it.

Or is it that we have shit passers?

 

[BoneHutson]

How hard is it toi understand that if you have 3 centres around Suzuki level now (which will improve) Dach, Suzuki, Hage/Demidov, Kapanen that you don't necessarily need a McDavid.

Some people are just Pejorative Slured, you dont have to fuss over the stupid takes they come up with. Any sane person would know Suzuki, Dach, Hage (if he hits) is as good as it gets in terms of C depth (minus a team like EDM)

 

[Mudz]

How hard is it toi understand that if you have 3 centres around Suzuki level now (which will improve) Dach, Suzuki, Hage/Demidov, Kapanen that you don't necessarily need a McDavid.

The things you see some times. Suzuki went to the Stanley Cup finals as a 1C at 21 years old. Barkov took 2 attempts, I feel like we should give the benefit of a second chance.

Suzuki availability is ''elite''. Availibity is the best quality. How many 1C are also ironman? The guy dodged Covid like a ninja. (also his IQ, his shot)

And there's strong probabilities that Dach will be as good if not better from what we've seen so far.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Quick question.
Why is Caufield still on the powerplay?
Im only half kidding when I say it. But at this point, do we have another RH option on the half wall?
He doesnt shoot it. He doesnt one-time it.

Or is it that we have shit passers?

I really hope his shot improves this season. It was sad to watch last year. He needs his shot back to go to the next level. I think we can count on 35 but it’s so disappointing that we’re lowering the bar on this. He has the talent to be a premier scorer.

I look forward to seeing Hutson’s impact. I think he’s going to be a real shot in the arm for our offense. Add that to Kirby Dach and I think we’ll progress.

 

[Rapala]

Quick question.
Why is Caufield still on the powerplay?
Im only half kidding when I say it. But at this point, do we have another RH option on the half wall?
He doesnt shoot it. He doesnt one-time it.

Or is it that we have shit passers?

I don't know man early on last season we were trying to hit Caufield in his sweet spot.
The passes weren't coming off Cole's fans were blaming Suzuki but I was blaming the recipient.
Caufield just didn't look like himself the way he was opening up to take those shots the timing was off for sure.
They/He just stopped trying altogether so something was up.
If he isn't productive from that spot he isn't very good on the half wall so yeah I was seeing Laine there before he got chopped down.

 

[Garbageyuk]

There is no picture. Habs will be deeper at every position than probably all Cup winners. They may not have a McDavid etc but they will be much more solid top to bottom.

Lol, maybe if you assume every single prospect the Habs have pans out like we want them to. In reality, that is not going to happen. Do you know how ridiculous you sound here?

How hard is it toi understand that if you have 3 centres around Suzuki level now (which will improve) Dach, Suzuki, Hage/Demidov, Kapanen that you don't necessarily need a McDavid.

Suzuki is not currently good enough, Dach is a question mark, Hage is a complete unknown, as is Kapanen pretty much, and Demidov isn’t even a center. You’re essentially counting on the best case scenario for literally every single guy - not going to happen.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Some people are just Pejorative Slured, you dont have to fuss over the stupid takes they come up with. Any sane person would know Suzuki, Dach, Hage (if he hits) is as good as it gets in terms of C depth (minus a team like EDM)

“the stupid takes they come up with” lmao.

Every recent Cup winner has had a top line C better than Suzuki.

All but two recent Cup winners have had a top flight #1D. The two exceptions had 70-80 point (or better) 2Cs

The Habs currently have none of those pieces.

Those aren’t “takes”, buddy. Those are facts.

 

[admiralcadillac]

“the stupid takes they come up with” lmao.

Every recent Cup winner has had a top line C better than Suzuki.

All but two recent Cup winners have had a top flight #1D. The two exceptions had 70-80 point (or better) 2Cs

The Habs currently have none of those pieces.

Those aren’t “takes”, buddy. Those are facts.

Are you referring to St Louis, which did not in fact have two 70 point centremen?

O’Reilly had 77 points and Schenn had 54

Perhaps the golden knights, who had no 70 point players