The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Captain Mountain]

Let’s start listing vets RHD to replace Savard when he goes because we’ll need one, badly. Having two low experience RHD (Rein and Mailloux) on the back end is a recipe for disaster unless an RHD can come in and swallow tough minutes for them.

Barron ain’t it.

I actually expect Savard to re-sign in Montreal whether he's traded or not. It sounds like being in a French speaking environment is important to his family, and the only other team that could come close to offering that is Ottawa.

The RD UFA market is really bad though,

I think there are a lot of misconception about a proper rebuild.

For instance, Colorado did a rebuild got Duchene, MacKinnon, Landeskog. They thought they were going to compete with their core but they stalled and dipped in form then they started trading away their one core player like Duchene, acquired Kadri and did a quick reset and they eventually got lucky with Makar and then they won the cup.

Florida also got their main guy Barkov in 2013 but it took another 11 years until they won the cup. They had to get rid of Huberdeau to get Tkachuk.

Vegas basically trade away all their prospects + picks to get established players to have depth everywhere and won a cup.

I think the key to compete is keeping a healthy cap management (KH is doing very fine on that front) + have scoring depth and be ready to find good deals on the market once we have a more stable core possibly as soon as next summer. I think we still lack a true #1 defenseman and Dach has yet to prove himself as a #2 center but the pieces are starting to add up. We should be ready to reach the next step and acquire older proven players instead of prospect or project. I think next summer we could be very aggresive on the market (UFA or trades) to get more pieces.

I'm still so confused why people think Buffalo has been focusing on drafting for a decade, they've made massive swings in free agency and tried to accelerate through trades as well.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I'm still so confused why people think Buffalo has been focusing on drafting for a decade, they've made massive swings in free agency and tried to accelerate through trades as well.

100%, Buffalo traded away Ristolainen, Zadorov, Reinhart, Eichel who were all key component from their rebuild and got little in return. + whiffed their 8th overall pick by getting Alexander Nylander. If anything they completely steered away from keeping their core + adding more to it. That was very bad team building from them.

 

[LaP]

I'm still so confused why people think Buffalo has been focusing on drafting for a decade, they've made massive swings in free agency and tried to accelerate through trades as well.

Yup but they have made some pretty bad trade notably the Reinhart one.

 

[Canadienna]

People have a hard time grasping non linear change. Montreal lead the league in one goal games last year. That's very encouraging.

A small increase in average level of play could result in a disproportionately large increase in wins.

Still, that doesn't mean playoffs, or even out of the bottom 5 if the gap between the bubble and basement teams closes.

Edited to add: the flip side of this coin is that a small decrease in average level of play could result in a disproportionately large decrease in wins.

 

[Gustave]

I actually expect Savard to re-sign in Montreal whether he's traded or not. It sounds like being in a French speaking environment is important to his family, and the only other team that could come close to offering that is Ottawa.

The RD UFA market is really bad though,

That could be right, but he is going to stop playing eventually and gradually « decay », so we better hope for another RHD to trade for, or sign.

And yes, year after year, the RHD market is a joke. I’m definitely warming up to the Reinbacher pick, has it saved us from a gigantic hole in our pool.

 

[jordy]

I gave him an F.

Hes led us to being the worst team in the league and two fifth last place finishes.

This year is shaping up to be another year of misery for habs fans.


Its like hes not even trying.

 

[Captain Mountain]

That could be right, but he is going to stop playing eventually and gradually « decay », so we better hope for another RHD to trade for, or sign.

And yes, year after year, the RHD market is a joke. I’m definitely warming up to the Reinbacher pick, has it saved us from a gigantic hole in our pool.

His game fell off before he even joined the Habs. And Montreal's just buying time to continue to develop Reinbacher (turning 20 in October), Mailloux (21) and Barron (turns 23 in November) and others to develop into roles.

Savard makes a lot of sense situation-wise and market-wise as a D who will gradually get less and less on ice responsibility, but stay in Montreal.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Winning all your trades doesn't matter as much as people think imo. Serge Savard lost lot of trades. Ross Atkins is winning all his trades (according to fans and media). For me the most important part of a GM work is team building. Being able to identify what your team is missing and being able to go get it. The 2nd most important part is putting in place people who can help you like a good drafting team and a good coaching group etc ... the 3rd most important is to know when to get out when it comes to old players and bad contract given to them.

Florida got Tkachuk, Reinhart and Bennett from 3 separate trades and built what looks to be a possible dynasty. Buffalo seems to lose every trade and will probably once again be dogshit for years to come despite drafting high forever. Serge Savard was barely in the league 30 years ago, wanna try something more relevant?

Montreal getting Dach, Suzuki and Newhook, plus the pick to get Hage+ with the Monahan manuvre is literally cutting years off a rebuild. I dunno what more to say about how wrong you are.

 

[Heffyhoof]

What's a rebuild otherwise lol?

Whatever he twists it into to continue to whine and complain.

 

[LaP]

Florida got Tkachuk, Reinhart and Bennett from 3 separate trades and built what looks to be a possible dynasty. Buffalo seems to lose every trade and will probably once again be dogshit for years to come despite drafting high forever. Serge Savard was barely in the league 30 years ago, wanna try something more relevant?

Montreal getting Dach, Suzuki and Newhook, plus the pick to get Hage+ with the Monahan manuvre is literally cutting years off a rebuild. I dunno what more to say about how wrong you are.

Yeah but Calgary was not winning with Tkachuk and Buffalo was not winning with Reinhart. That's what i mean by team building. Florida's GM seem to be ab le to identify which players will work with his team (Barkov, Ekblad) and which players wont. He also got out of the Huberdeau's 30 yo contract at the right time. Many GM would have stick to Hubeardeau and paid him and not be interested in bad kirktr want to leave his team Tkachuk. He also seem to have a relatively good drafting team and coaching team in place. They are drafting relatively well. Owen Tippett in 2017. Spencer Knight in 2019. Anton Lundell and Levi in 2020 (Levi was traded for Reinhart). Matthew Samoskevich in 2021.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Weren't we flirting with 10 OA at somepoint towards the end of the season? NJD finished 10th and they only had a 5 point lead above us. 3 more wins last year catapults us from 5th worst to outside the top 10. And that's without Dach and a less developed team compared to what we have today. Every other team after NJD was in the WC hunt.

Idk who we finish above or below lol teams are voodoo. Last year we were all expecting Columbus, Anaheim, and Ottawa to be better and they shit the bed. Flyers looked like a lotto team and they almost made the playoffs. Buffalo still being buffalo. Hard to predict exact standings, all I'm saying is I expect us to be in the hunt.

Last year we Led the league in 1 goal games. We were in way too many games against good teams that we had no business being in. Good sign though. Plus a more developed Slaf, Roy, Xhekaj, etc AND newcomers in Mailloux, Hutson, Reinbacher, etc. They will all make a big difference.

People have a hard time grasping non linear change. Montreal lead the league in one goal games last year. That's very encouraging.

A small increase in average level of play could result in a disproportionately large increase in wins.

Still, that doesn't mean playoffs, or even out of the bottom 5 if the gap between the bubble and basement teams closes.

Edited to add: the flip side of this coin is that a small decrease in average level of play could result in a disproportionately large decrease in wins.

Not to single you guys out or anything but this feels like all of the years we'd hear Ottawa fans focus on these minuscule details to cope on how next year would be different after a strong finish.

I'm not sure how much those 1 one goal games will ultimately matter. Every season is a new one and that's not a stat that I'd count on to say we'll win more games next year.

I'd def feel a lot better if we could get an established top-6 guy to play on Dach's wing. Our 2nd line does not look particularly good right now. At least it's got massive questions.

 

[StreetHawk]

His game fell off before he even joined the Habs. And Montreal's just buying time to continue to develop Reinbacher (turning 20 in October), Mailloux (21) and Barron (turns 23 in November) and others to develop into roles.

Savard makes a lot of sense situation-wise and market-wise as a D who will gradually get less and less on ice responsibility, but stay in Montreal.

The cost to pay RHD isn't cheap. Myers got $3 mill over 3 years. Plus, is Montreal a destination that the ufa class of 2025 would want to go to?

So, nothing wrong with exploring what an extension looks like. Main negative I see is that Savard has missed 20 games a season since becoming a Hab in 3 years. That's not a good sign.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Yeah but Calgary was not winning with Tkachuk and Buffalo was not winning with Reinhart. That's what i mean by team building. Florida's GM seem to be ab le to identify which players will work with his team (Barkov, Ekblad) and which players wont. He also got out of the Huberdeau's 30 yo contract at the right time. Many GM would have stick to Hubeardeau and paid him and not be interested in bad kirktr want to leave his team Tkachuk. He also seem to have a relatively good drafting team and coaching team in place. They are drafting relatively well. Owen Tippett in 2017. Spencer Knight in 2019. Anton Lundell and Levi in 2020 (Levi was traded for Reinhart). Matthew Samoskevich in 2021.

These trades didn't just fall into Floridas lap, they went out and got incredible players that were highly valuable all over the league. This is what it means to be active in the league and know how to network with GMs. Like it or not the NHL is still very much a old boys club and having friends opens a lot of doors to opportunity. They got them and didn't gut their team to do it and had the courage to make moves because their GM is confident in his trades. If you think he knew Huberdeau was going to fall off a cliff you're deluding yourself.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

These trades didn't just fall into Floridas lap, they went out and got incredible players that were highly valuable all over the league. This is what it means to be active in the league and know how to network with GMs. Like it or not the NHL is still very much a old boys club and having friends opens a lot of doors to opportunity. They got them and didn't gut their team to do it and had the courage to make moves because their GM is confident in his trades. If you think he knew Huberdeau was going to fall off a cliff you're deluding yourself.

There were already people who had their doubts about Hubby and how much Barkov was helping him shine. For your last point, considering the other pieces added on top of Huberdeau, I don't think it's far fetched to think Zito thought he was selling high here.

 

[Canadienna]

Not to single you guys out or anything but this feels like all of the years we'd hear Ottawa fans focus on these minuscule details to cope on how next year would be different after a strong finish.

I'm not sure how much those 1 one goal games will ultimately matter. Every season is a new one and that's not a stat that I'd count on to say we'll win more games next year.

I'd def feel a lot better if we could get an established top-6 guy to play on Dach's wing. Our 2nd line does not look particularly good right now. At least it's got massive questions.

I don't know how you could feel that was the theme of my post. Ottawa fans are claiming their team has come out of the rebuild and is headed for contender status, I don't believe that at all.

My post was specifically about how the number of one goal games increases variance and how that relates to their expected finish this year. Acknowledging that even if they improve their play and get a few extra wins, they may still end up bottom 5.

Saying "it's not a stat I'd count on to say we'll win more games next year" I think shows you didn't understand what I was getting at. With all respect.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I don't know how you could feel that was the theme of my post. Ottawa fans are claiming their team has come out of the rebuild and is headed for contender status, I don't believe that at all.

My post was specifically about how the number of one goal games increases variance and how that relates to their expected finish this year. Acknowledging that even if they improve their play and get a few extra wins, they may still end up bottom 5.

Saying "it's not a stat I'd count on to say we'll win more games next year" I think shows you didn't understand what I was getting at. With all respect.

Yep, re-reading you, my bad on that one. You're right.

 

[BLONG7]

What a ludicrous statement, a bad trade or a good trade can have a massive impact on a franchise for years. Being able to find a trade alone is an ability only the best GMs have. Gainey went years without being able to get a decent forward and the regurgitated excuse always was "there's no trades out there" while every other team passed us by. Hiring an ex agent speaks volumes about how valuable networking with other GM's is in today's NHL.

Tell me how many self drafted players did Florida have on their roster?

Have a snickers man................LOL
Trades, are just ONE component of what these guys do.......................in my opinion, it is the lowest template on the pole of what they do.

Hughes is doing an amazing job, and most of it has to do with the DRAFT.

 

[HabzSauce]

Not to single you guys out or anything but this feels like all of the years we'd hear Ottawa fans focus on these minuscule details to cope on how next year would be different after a strong finish.

I'm not sure how much those 1 one goal games will ultimately matter. Every season is a new one and that's not a stat that I'd count on to say we'll win more games next year.

I'd def feel a lot better if we could get an established top-6 guy to play on Dach's wing. Our 2nd line does not look particularly good right now. At least it's got massive questions.

Point I was making was that they fought and battled hard all year long even tho they were in the basement. Thats very good long term for building a winning culture. Most other teams just give up.

It's not like we're expecting to go from bottom 5 to president trophy in one year. Even a small increase in points can have us fighting for WC. 5-10 extra points will do that. Should be attainable with the improved growth from our players + influx of new talent in Huston, Mailloux & co.

Most importantly tho we are not Ottawa or Buffalo. Those teams are dumpster fire organizations. I don't see any comparison with those teams and the Habs honestly.

 

[Redux91]

Let’s start listing vets RHD to replace Savard when he goes because we’ll need one, badly. Having two low experience RHD (Rein and Mailloux) on the back end is a recipe for disaster unless an RHD can come in and swallow tough minutes for them.

Barron ain’t it.

Lmao
It's insane how I went from 'trade Savard!!!" To... wait.. he could be the PERFECT #3RD when it's time to need one.. lol

So I've definitely been torn on it
They obviously love him as a teammate

 

[Mrb1p]

People should take a look at the lineup of the Metropolitan this season.

Pens top 6 : 36 yo Crosby, 37 yo Malkin, 32 yo Rust, 31 yo Rackell, Bunting, 32 yo Kevin Hayes. I mean i like Crosby and Malkin but that's a **** awful top 6.

Caps : 38 yo Ovy, PLD, 30 yo Wilson, Mangemoélpain, 37 yo Oshie, Dylan Strome. Not great either.

We can certainly fight for the 20th spot. Dunno if we get there but we can certainly fight for it.

We have Anderson or Gallagher in our top 6, Im not sure we can act like our top 6 is good.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lmao
It's insane how I went from 'trade Savard!!!" To... wait.. he could be the PERFECT #3RD when it's time to need one.. lol

So I've definitely been torn on it
They obviously love him as a teammate

Savard has low enough value that its fine to keep him.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Have a snickers man................LOL
Trades, are just ONE component of what these guys do.......................in my opinion, it is the lowest template on the pole of what they do.

Hughes is doing an amazing job, and most of it has to do with the DRAFT.

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

I never said trades weren't one component of what a GM does but it is one of the most important and you don't win by making bad trades despite you thinking so. The team making the best trades won the cup, I guess reality hurts some. xD

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Whats bad about wanting to transition to a more competitive style of development ? All the core pieces are there, why are we waiting around ?

It's not about being competitive. I'm also hoping they try to get a WC spot. My over/under is 84.5 pts next season which is probably between 20-25th place. That's a win in my eyes but getting a wildcard by going out and bolstering the roster with FA signings is so dumb considering they have so many contracts that they'll have to get off the books this trade deadline. How do you plan to get value for them when other signings are taking away ice time? Also have to factor in the opportunity for young players like what Hughes spoke about. And then you factor in how bad this FA season was in regards to contracts. Over 1 billion dollars.

Now is not the time to deviate from the plan. You can go back months and find my posts about how 2025 FA is the time to strike as the contracts will be off the books, you'll have an ungodly amount of cap flexibility and a core that's ready to compete. This year, they'll probably have 3 rookies on D to end the season. This is a transition season. Last season was a tank season. Like the year before. And the year before. Again making a WC would be fantastic but not at the expense of disrupting the cap situation at such a poor time too seeing that Demidov isn't here, Hutson, mailloux, and Reinbacher AT BEST will be rookies and Dach coming off an injured season

Reading your post made me think you were Norman Flynn or something

Whats bad about wanting to transition to a more competitive style of development ? All the core pieces are there, why are we waiting around ?


I know, lol.

It's not about being competitive. I'm also hoping they try to get a WC spot. My over/under is 84.5 pts next season which is probably between 20-25th place. That's a win in my eyes but getting a wildcard by going out and bolstering the roster with FA signings is so dumb considering they have so many contracts that they'll have to get off the books this trade deadline. How do you plan to get value for them when other signings are taking away ice time? Also have to factor in the opportunity for young players like what Hughes spoke about. And then you factor in how bad this FA season was in regards to contracts. Over 1 billion dollars.

Now is not the time to deviate from the plan. You can go back months and find my posts about how 2025 FA is the time to strike as the contracts will be off the books, you'll have an ungodly amount of cap flexibility and a core that's ready to compete. This year, they'll probably have 3 rookies on D to end the season. This is a transition season. Last season was a tank season. Like the year before. And the year before. Again making a WC would be fantastic but not at the expense of disrupting the cap situation at such a poor time too seeing that Demidov isn't here, Hutson, mailloux, and Reinbacher AT BEST will be rookies and Dach coming off an injured season

Reading your post made me think you were Norman Flynn or something

 

[Miller Time]

I'm not happy with delaying the window. I thought we would be ready last year, and by all accounts, the core was/is ready, injury just got in the way of things. Perfectly fine by me when Dach got injured that we pretty much threw away the year.

This year makes absolutely zero sense that were not trying to crack open the window at the very least. I feel like Hughes bolted it down instead.

I understand the contracts, I understand Demidov isn't here yet.

The point is that the perfect time to compete is 2025 until 2028, before Demidov, Dach, Newhook, Roy, Hutson, Reinbacher, and all the prospects start getting significant NHL money. Were delaying the process of "learning" to win for what reason ? Because we have bad contracts that are going to end anyway. 10m in cap space, 26 next year, 46 in two years, 60 and some in three. We had more than ample money to make a move.

RDs that would've made the team better right away without handicapping the future: Marino,
Bottom 6 forwards that would've made the team better right away without handicapping the future: Lomberg, Jones, Aube-Kubel, Lafferty, William Carrier, Foegele, Jeannot, Trenin, Tsyplakov, Carrick, Dellandrea, Texier, Girgensons, Heinen, Duhaime
Mid 6 forwards that would've made the team better right away without handicapping the future: Bertuzzi, Jack Roslovic, Teravainen, Duclair, Mangiapane

Our bottom 6 options are as good or better than the list.

Barron is considerably ahead of Marino at the same age and his ceiling remains higher than the level Marino has reached. Being impatient now served little purpose.

Roslovic doesn't make our middle 6 any better today. I'd much rather see Roy get that opportunity. TT, sure. Bertuzzi, Duclair & Mangiapane all bad fits & not worth to cost of acquisition. Hard pass.

The video game approach to adding players doesn't move the needle when the goal is building a championship caliber roster... Fortunately the current management group gets it and doesn't grasp at ill fitting straws just for the sake of it.

 

[Mrb1p]

It's not about being competitive. I'm also hoping they try to get a WC spot. My over/under is 84.5 pts next season which is probably between 20-25th place. That's a win in my eyes but getting a wildcard by going out and bolstering the roster with FA signings is so dumb considering they have so many contracts that they'll have to get off the books this trade deadline. How do you plan to get value for them when other signings are taking away ice time? Also have to factor in the opportunity for young players like what Hughes spoke about. And then you factor in how bad this FA season was in regards to contracts. Over 1 billion dollars.

Now is not the time to deviate from the plan. You can go back months and find my posts about how 2025 FA is the time to strike as the contracts will be off the books, you'll have an ungodly amount of cap flexibility and a core that's ready to compete. This year, they'll probably have 3 rookies on D to end the season. This is a transition season. Last season was a tank season. Like the year before. And the year before. Again making a WC would be fantastic but not at the expense of disrupting the cap situation at such a poor time too seeing that Demidov isn't here, Hutson, mailloux, and Reinbacher AT BEST will be rookies and Dach coming off an injured season

Reading your post made me think you were Norman Flynn or something

There is no relation to the contracts this team currently has, the bad contracts given this year and the players i wanted brought in this year. It's like you glossed over my post and decided I wanted to sacrifice all the future for a kamikaze run next year.

I don't even care if we hit the POs next year, I just want progress and mentally moving forward, getting closer to the goal. We've seen time and time again how good veteran leadership and mentorship can bolster up young player, that's what we should be aiming for, not to replace Suzuki with Nazem Kadri, but to bring in a 3rd or 4th line player that can releive some defensive assignment, that can help him with defensive assignment, to bring in a RD that can allow Guhle to slot in on the left instead of baby sitting Mothers Milk.

Our bottom 6 options are as good or better than the list.

Barron is considerably ahead of Marino at the same age and his ceiling remains higher than the level Marino has reached. Being impatient now served little purpose.

Roslovic doesn't make our middle 6 any better today. I'd much rather see Roy get that opportunity. TT, sure. Bertuzzi, Duclair & Mangiapane all bad fits & not worth to cost of acquisition. Hard pass.

The video game approach to adding players doesn't move the needle when the goal is building a championship caliber roster... Fortunately the current management group gets it and doesn't grasp at ill fitting straws just for the sake of it.

This post is ridiculous and I am not going to entertain it, Im sorry.