The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’d give HuGo an A….we had #1 OA in perhaps one of the most difficult (Covid) draft years in recent history with no clear “generational” talent. We’ll see if Mesar,Beck Fowler, Reinbacher, Hutson, Hage & Demidov ++ hit or not.

I get people wanting to wait and see before giving him an A. They are right that we won't know for a while.

But I give him an 'A' based on what we know now. We know he's assembled a group of prospects who've had a lot of success at the minor league level. We know he's made trades for additional picks and prospects. We know that it's a deep prospect pool that's overflowing at some positions. He hasn't overpaid on the contracts and he's locked up talent for a long time. Based on that, I think an A is warranted.

But we won't know if it's a truly successful rebuild for some time.

 

[montreal]

Does Montreal have the high end pieces require to convert the rebuild to a success?

no.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

no.

Yes they do if most of their top prospects develop. They don't have any potential superstars but neither does Florida and they won.

 

[Vachon23]

Yes they do if most of their top prospects develop. They don't have any potential superstars but neither does Florida and they won.

Barkov is what ? Tkachuk ?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Barkov is what ? Tkachuk ?

They are NOT superstars. Great 1st line forwards but Suzuki and Slaf should be similar contributors soon.

 

[Vachon23]

They are NOT superstars. Great 1st line forwards but Suzuki and Slaf should be similar contributors soon.

Barkov is a top 5 Center in the league, that’s a superstar in my book and I don’t expect Suzuki to be close to that level

Tkachuk is 2x 100 pts players, Hart nominee last year and unique in his role. I don’t expect Slaf to be that good either

 

[Chili]

On the current roster, there are only 4 players who the current management have added who spent most or all of last year in the NHL : Slafkovsky, Newhook, Matheson & Barron. Dach is the other guy they added. The rest were either on the NHL roster or already prospects when they were hired. They have added interesting prospects. From here, seems like there is a lot of work left to do before they are playoff contenders again.

A couple of teams who in my opinion have drafted well, Detroit and Anaheim, still have a ways to go too. Don't know how much anyone can rely just on the draft anymore to turn things around (seems like the Wings have already realized that).

It's a results business, so as far as a grade, the best I would give is incomplete. I would give it higher if there was a significant improvement with the AHL team where the young players could be learning to win together.

 

[montreal]

Yes they do if most of their top prospects develop.

If ifs and buts were candies and nuts....

 

[Walksss]

Barkov is a top 5 Center in the league, that’s a superstar in my book and I don’t expect Suzuki to be close to that level

Tkachuk is 2x 100 pts players, Hart nominee last year and unique in his role. I don’t expect Slaf to be that good either

Meh it's hard to know exactly how they will develop towards their peak level. It's not like anyone thought Tkachuk was gonna be as good as he ended up being and certainly Barkov has gotten better every year he's been in the league, i expect the same from both Suzuki and Slaf.

It's much easier to produce at such a high level when you're a team with both talent at all positions and experience with most of the team in their prime years. Our guys are all obviously much younger and their progression will result in greater point totals for our entire team.

Look at Elias Pettersson, he went from 68 points to 102 points when he turned 24. Maybe Suzuki has a similar progression, maybe he doesn't, all we can only wait and see.

I will say that he seems like a guy who has the maniacal work ethic that makes that kind of progression possible, and now we have a huge development infrastructure that few teams have ever had available to them. Maybe we'll get the results we all dream of. Who knows, but I'm here to party.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Barkov is a top 5 Center in the league, that’s a superstar in my book and I don’t expect Suzuki to be close to that level

Tkachuk is 2x 100 pts players, Hart nominee last year and unique in his role. I don’t expect Slaf to be that good either

I guess we’ll see? Tkachuk had 48/49 pts in his 20/21 yo seasons playing with much better players on a significantly better team.

If Suzi can come close to Barkov I’ll be very happy, he’s definitely underrated.

 

[Sorinth]

On the current roster, there are only 4 players who the current management have added who spent most or all of last year in the NHL : Slafkovsky, Newhook, Matheson & Barron. Dach is the other guy they added. The rest were either on the NHL roster or already prospects when they were hired. They have added interesting prospects. From here, seems like there is a lot of work left to do before they are playoff contenders again.

A couple of teams who in my opinion have drafted well, Detroit and Anaheim, still have a ways to go too. Don't know how much anyone can rely just on the draft anymore to turn things around (seems like the Wings have already realized that).

It's a results business, so as far as a grade, the best I would give is incomplete. I would give it higher if there was a significant improvement with the AHL team where the young players could be learning to win together.

Which is to be expected when the plan is to rebuild through the draft, the "standard" path for a draft pick is probably something like making the AHL/NHL in year 3 after being drafted, and that's what we are seeing with the guys from Hughes first draft class (2022). Mesar, Beck, Hutson, and Engstrom will be AHL/NHL rookies this year.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

If ifs and buts were candies and nuts....

This management team are very good at evaluating players. Odds are very good they will. But there is no way anyone can say we don't have all the pieces necessary either. They have so many goalie and defense prospects if even half of them develop they will be in good shape.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Barkov is a top 5 Center in the league, that’s a superstar in my book and I don’t expect Suzuki to be close to that level

Tkachuk is 2x 100 pts players, Hart nominee last year and unique in his role. I don’t expect Slaf to be that good either

I guess we’ll see? Tkachuk had 48/49 pts in his 20/21 yo seasons playing with much better players on a significantly better team.

If Suzi can come close to Barkov I’ll be very happy, he’s very underrated.

On the current roster, there are only 4 players who the current management have added who spent most or all of last year in the NHL : Slafkovsky, Newhook, Matheson & Barron. Dach is the other guy they added. The rest were either on the NHL roster or already prospects when they were hired. They have added interesting prospects. From here, seems like there is a lot of work left to do before they are playoff contenders again.

A couple of teams who in my opinion have drafted well, Detroit and Anaheim, still have a ways to go too. Don't know how much anyone can rely just on the draft anymore to turn things around (seems like the Wings have already realized that).

It's a results business, so as far as a grade, the best I would give is incomplete. I would give it higher if there was a significant improvement with the AHL team where the young players could be learning to win together.

People cannot dismiss the incredible job HuGo has done through the trade market & and accumulating draft picks…..that’s a big part of a successful rebuild as well.

 

[conFABulator]

no.

Thanks for the honesty. Is there any extended colour commentary to the one word answer? I mentioned in my OP that I am a Leafs fan, so I am familiar with the "hater" part of the fanbase. Is that what this is? Do you prefer to dislike everything they are doing until they win, so you don't get hurt?

...or do you think Slafkovsky and Demidov are not enough to carry a group of strong young supporting staff?

 

[Vachon23]

I guess we’ll see? Tkachuk had 48/49 pts in his 20/21 yo seasons playing with much better players on a significantly better team.

If Suzi can come close to Barkov I’ll be very happy, he’s definitely underrated.

We will see for Slaf but the chances are not that high all though I think he’s gonna be great

Suzuki is a good player but I don’t see him becoming a top 5 center in the league and multiple Selke winner

 

[montreal]

This management team are very good at evaluating players. Odds are very good they will. But there is no way anyone can say we don't have all the pieces necessary either. They have so many goalie and defense prospects if even half of them develop they will be in good shape.

What proof do you have that this management team is very good at evaluating players?

As for prospects, you can have the best prospect pool today but the only thing that matters with prospects is progress or a lack of. So what prospects are looked at in today, won't be the same with each passing year. Some bust, some surprise, so get injured that impacts their careers, just tons of variables that make it extremely difficult to try and project what all these prospects will turn into.

Thanks for the honesty. Is there any extended colour commentary to the one word answer? I mentioned in my OP that I am a Leafs fan, so I am familiar with the "hater" part of the fanbase. Is that what this is? Do you prefer to dislike everything they are doing until they win, so you don't get hurt?

...or do you think Slafkovsky and Demidov are not enough to carry a group of strong young supporting staff?

I could care less about the leafs. You asked if they had the pieces, clearly they do not since they have been one of the worst teams in the NHL over the last 3 years.

There's no way that Slaf and Demidov is enough to turn this rebuild into a success, assuming ones definition of success would be a cup or at least a consistent contender again. still need a goalie and a much much better blueline, special teams, plus tons of help at forward.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

What proof do you have that this management team is very good at evaluating players?

As for prospects, you can have the best prospect pool today but the only thing that matters with prospects is progress or a lack of. So what prospects are looked at in today, won't be the same with each passing year. Some bust, some surprise, so get injured that impacts their careers, just tons of variables that make it extremely difficult to try and project what all these prospects will turn into.



I could care less about the leafs. You asked if they had the pieces, clearly they do not since they have been one of the worst teams in the NHL over the last 3 years.

There's no way that Slaf and Demidov is enough to turn this rebuild into a success, assuming ones definition of success would be a cup or at least a consistent contender again. still need a goalie and a much much better blueline, special teams, plus tons of help at forward.

The only thing they can use is another forward or 2. And for this year a forward who can play centre if Dach goes down. They have 4 good goalies, 10 d and forwards to fill 4 solid lines who should be ready within 3 years.

 

[conFABulator]

I could care less about the leafs. You asked if they had the pieces, clearly they do not since they have been one of the worst teams in the NHL over the last 3 years.

There's no way that Slaf and Demidov is enough to turn this rebuild into a success, assuming ones definition of success would be a cup or at least a consistent contender again. still need a goalie and a much much better blueline, special teams, plus tons of help at forward.

I didn't suggest that YOU cared about the Leafs. I simply shared my lived experience that some people are down on everything the organization does and therefore they are unable to provide a balanced assessment and analysis. I asked if you were one of those fans. You had provided a one word response.

I thought the young blue line and prospects was a bright spot in this rebuild? You have a good young goalie too. I guess your opinion is that neither are strong enough.

If Slaf and Demidov become the two best forwards because they turn out to be very good then you benefit from everyone else slotting down a leg or two. Caulfield, Suzuki, Dach, Newhook, and Beck being #3 through #7 on the depth chart is better than #1 through #5. You are saying it may not be enough.

I read someone else in here pointing out that the timing may not line up also. Suzuki and co could be too old by the time the next group is contributing, always a concern.

 

[Chili]

I guess we’ll see? Tkachuk had 48/49 pts in his 20/21 yo seasons playing with much better players on a significantly better team.

If Suzi can come close to Barkov I’ll be very happy, he’s very underrated.


People cannot dismiss the incredible job HuGo has done through the trade market & and accumulating draft picks…..that’s a big part of a successful rebuild as well.

There were two things I mentioned above, they have added nicely to the prospect pool. It's disappointing to me though that the AHL team continues to be outside the playoffs. Last year they chose to go with two rookie goaltenders and were slow to realize that was a mistake. The young players could have benefitted from playoff games, it seems like they have the youth to have a decent AHL team, at least one in the playoffs.

It's all about the players for me. I go way back; Frank Selke Sr. was the architect of a great deal of the Habs success (prior to that the Leafs too). In Ken Dryden's book on Scotty Bowman, he mentioned the advice Mr. Selke gave Scotty when he was a GM in Buffalo: "New players", management always needs to be finding new players to become and stay competitive. So, I am looking at the current management from that angle. They have their own plan, ultimately at some point, they will be judged on success on the ice.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

no.

Surprised to see this.

Do you think we don’t have enough high end players or we don’t have any?

 

[Nevins]

Slafkovsky- Suzuki- Demidov
Caufield-Dach- ?
Newhook- Hage- Roy
Xhekaj- Beck- Kapanen
Sawyer- Eriksson- Heineman/ Thorpe

Guhle- Mailloux
Hutson- Reinbacher
Xhekaj- Engstrom
Struble- Barron
Harris- Konyushkov
Trudeau
Prottz

Montembault
Primeau
Dobes
Fowler
Volokhin
Miller
And 12 draft picks in 2025 including 2 in the first round and 9 in the first 4 rounds. There is still a lack of talented forwards, power forwards and physical defenders.

 

[montreal]

The only thing they can use is another forward or 2. And for this year a forward who can play centre if Dach goes down. They have 4 good goalies, 10 d and forwards to fill 4 solid lines who should be ready within 3 years.

They don't have 4 good goalies or 10 D or 4 solid lines, prospects are nothing until they are NHLers, what you have is hope.

Surprised to see this.

why? they just spent the last 3 years being one of the worst teams in the league, of course there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

 

[montreal]

I didn't suggest that YOU cared about the Leafs. I simply shared my lived experience that some people are down on everything the organization does and therefore they are unable to provide a balanced assessment and analysis. I asked if you were one of those fans. You had provided a one word response.

I thought the young blue line and prospects was a bright spot in this rebuild? You have a good young goalie too. I guess your opinion is that neither are strong enough.

If Slaf and Demidov become the two best forwards because they turn out to be very good then you benefit from everyone else slotting down a leg or two. Caulfield, Suzuki, Dach, Newhook, and Beck being #3 through #7 on the depth chart is better than #1 through #5. You are saying it may not be enough.

I read someone else in here pointing out that the timing may not line up also. Suzuki and co could be too old by the time the next group is contributing, always a concern.

The blueline is what they seem to be building with, but until we see how the do in the NHL over the next couple of years, who knows how it will play out, lots of question marks around Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher, Engstrom still so they might have a great core up coming or not who knows.

who is the good young goalie they have?

Unless Slaf and Demidov are putting up massive #'s, there's no way in the world that Suzuki/Caufield, Dach and Newhook would be enough to do anything close to being a cup contender.

There's tons of question marks for the Habs, the good news is that for them the next 2-3 years will be very telling for their future success or not.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

why? they just spent the last 3 years being one of the worst teams in the league, of course there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

Because the question was whether or not we believe we've acquired high end talent in our rebuild.

Obviously we can't know this for sure and won't know it probably for a few years. But there's a stockpile of talent and some of these guys have more potential than any forward we've had in eons. Some players I just don't know enough about to say (Reinbacher for example) but Hutson, Slaf, CC... great talent in the lineup or coming up.

Getting firsts on Monahan coming and going was brilliant. And I think HUGO has done all the right things. That's all we can ask for at this stage.

 

[montreal]

Because the question was whether or not we believe we've acquired high end talent in our rebuild.

Obviously we can't know this for sure and won't know it probably for a few years. But there's a stockpile of talent and some of these guys have more potential than any forward we've had in eons. Some players I just don't know enough about to say (Reinbacher for example) but Hutson, Slaf, CC... great talent in the lineup or coming up.

Getting firsts on Monahan coming and going was brilliant. And I think HUGO has done all the right things. That's all we can ask for at this stage.

it's very difficult to add high end talent, and if you were among the worst 5 teams for 3 years chances are good you don't currently have much high end talent.

This has nothing to do with if Hughes was smart to trade Monahan, a monkey could have made that trade. He's clearly smart but there's a lot that has to go right.