The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Tyson]

Even mediocrity is better than what we've had since 15-16. But yes.

Agreed. It's getting harder and harder to be Habs fan. I haven't one game yet this year after impatiently waiting all summer for the season to start. I just can't watch this trainwreck.

 

[Mrb1p]

Agreed. It's getting harder and harder to be Habs fan. I haven't one game yet this year after impatiently waiting all summer for the season to start. I just can't watch this trainwreck.

I've watched and been excited for maybe 2 minutes of the season. Terrible team.

No talent and it's decisions like the 2023 draft and the non-decision to tank that bring us to this point.

 

[Habby4Life]

This season is cooked, knew it before it started, the lineup and coaching just isnt good enough. Hope we can get Hagens, Martone, or McQueen.

Move before or at TDL:
Armia
Dvo
Savard
Primeau

In offseason buyout:
Gally and Anderson

Re-sign:
Evans - he will be cheap, works hard, adds depth and is good on PK

Use some of the so called "deep prospect pool" and draft picks to acquire some top 6 depth and get a veteran RD that isnt 400 yrs old. Sign a real backup. Spend some money and rebuild the bottom size to have size, and physicallity.

Oh and last but not least, if they are insistent on keeping MSL, hire some veteran assistants who can teach these guys how to play without the puck. However, I prefer, punt Marty and hire a real coach.

Its time to start playing meaningful games past mid to late october, lol.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Just think were all underestimating the time its going to take for all of this to come together and be a good team, we only have 3 proven forwards and 2 proven D on the future, theres a lot of balls up in the air that need to be solidified before I feel better about this team

I definitely get that. My medium-term optimism comes from the fact that the most significant long-term roster holes (save for 1RD if we set Reinbacher aside and avoid opening that can of worms) are lower in the lineup. I don't think Caufield/Suzuki/Slafkovsky is a dynamite first line, but I think Suzuki and Slafkovsky are enough that you can build around that duo with the knowledge that Demidov is on the way. We also have a lot of trade ammo to go after a guy like Rasmus Andersson to improve the right side. IMO Laine ends up on the first line by the end of the year, and I can see a world where Dach gets his timing back and a Caufield-Dach-Demidov 2nd line looks good for us as soon as next year. Similarly on D, I think Guhle and Hutson are going to bring enough ceiling as they develop that we can be fairly comfortable about filling in the rest of the group.

I just think there's a lot of low-hanging fruit left in terms of raising the floor, and management is currently deliberately postponing those options because we still have a few too many legacy contracts, and we're rightly still giving opportunities to young players. At some point the Barron/Xhekaj/Mailloux cohort will either need to learn to defend at the NHL level or we'll move on, and I'm not exactly concerned about being able to find replacement bottom pair D. Similarly either Newhook/Roy figure out how to be good 2nd line complementary scoring wingers or we move one or both of them to the third line and sign a UFA.

Were 28th in the league since 2015-2016 in the win column. Were tied with Ottawa. Were 7 wins ahead of the Sabres.

The Price induced run gave a lot of rope to Molson. Guess what though ? That run ended 40 months ago. Since then we've seen very marginal progress and almost none in the last 24 months.

I agree that we weren't good in the last stages of the Weber/Price era despite the covid runs and we've been bad during the current rebuild, but if we didn't actually sell anything from the past core and turned Kotkaniemi/Sergachev into Dvorak and thin air that doesn't really help the current roster. Suzuki/Caufield and Dach from Romanov are nice pieces but that's not nearly enough, and Slafkovsky is still just 20 years old as the first major piece added during the current rebuild. We can't retroactively get trade returns for 2020 Weber, Danault, Tatar, Gallagher, and Price, and those missing returns and the missing core players from the 2010-18 drafts are what's holding us back right now. If we trade Suzuki and Caufield for picks and prospects I'd get the Sabres 2.0 comparisons but I don't think it makes much sense now.

Being frustrated that we haven't been good since a certain year doesn't magically convert Hutson/Guhle/Slaf from young players to their primes or get Demidov/Laine in the lineup. We have no inherited veteran core since we lost the entire last one in 2021 and the new "veteran core" was Hoffman, Savard, and Dvorak, the young players need to grow into their roles as the team's new core and that takes time.

The Hawks were good in the same time frame we were, they're coming out of it right now.

Chicago is 2-2-1 with wins over a sleepwalking Edmonton team and San Jose. Of course they're better than last year but I think they're basically just equivalent to where we were in 23-24. Chicago also went from 68 to 59 to 52 points over the last 3 seasons, wouldn't that suggest that rebuilds don't have to be some smooth linear clockwork progression and that progression can be non-linear?

It's a failure on Molson, Gorton and Hughes if we're bad for another one. Patience is just a bullshit term thrown around because we get attached to incompetent people.

I think it's a pretty logical perspective on a roster with a single 25 year old core player and the rest of the core being 23 or younger with our best defencemen being 20 and 22, and our best prospect still in Russia for the year.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Year 3 of a 5/8 proposition.

Yes, they should have said they wanted to improve their point totals in a meaningful way from last season rather than 'in the mix'; but they were never realistically targeting a playoff berth this year.

 

[Mrb1p]

I definitely get that. My medium-term optimism comes from the fact that the most significant long-term roster holes (save for 1RD if we set Reinbacher aside and avoid opening that can of worms) are lower in the lineup. I don't think Caufield/Suzuki/Slafkovsky is a dynamite first line, but I think Suzuki and Slafkovsky are enough that you can build around that duo with the knowledge that Demidov is on the way. We also have a lot of trade ammo to go after a guy like Rasmus Andersson to improve the right side. IMO Laine ends up on the first line by the end of the year, and I can see a world where Dach gets his timing back and a Caufield-Dach-Demidov 2nd line looks good for us as soon as next year. Similarly on D, I think Guhle and Hutson are going to bring enough ceiling as they develop that we can be fairly comfortable about filling in the rest of the group.

I just think there's a lot of low-hanging fruit left in terms of raising the floor, and management is currently deliberately postponing those options because we still have a few too many legacy contracts, and we're rightly still giving opportunities to young players. At some point the Barron/Xhekaj/Mailloux cohort will either need to learn to defend at the NHL level or we'll move on, and I'm not exactly concerned about being able to find replacement bottom pair D. Similarly either Newhook/Roy figure out how to be good 2nd line complementary scoring wingers or we move one or both of them to the third line and sign a UFA.

I agree that we weren't good in the last stages of the Weber/Price era despite the covid runs and we've been bad during the current rebuild, but if we didn't actually sell anything from the past core and turned Kotkaniemi/Sergachev into Dvorak and thin air that doesn't really help the current roster. Suzuki/Caufield and Dach from Romanov are nice pieces but that's not nearly enough, and Slafkovsky is still just 20 years old as the first major piece added during the current rebuild. We can't retroactively get trade returns for 2020 Weber, Danault, Tatar, Gallagher, and Price, and those missing returns and the missing core players from the 2010-18 drafts are what's holding us back right now. If we trade Suzuki and Caufield for picks and prospects I'd get the Sabres 2.0 comparisons but I don't think it makes much sense now.

Being frustrated that we haven't been good since a certain year doesn't magically convert Hutson/Guhle/Slaf from young players to their primes or get Demidov/Laine in the lineup. We have no inherited veteran core since we lost the entire last one in 2021 and the new "veteran core" was Hoffman, Savard, and Dvorak, the young players need to grow into their roles as the team's new core and that takes time.

Chicago is 2-2-1 with wins over a sleepwalking Edmonton team and San Jose. Of course they're better than last year but I think they're basically just equivalent to where we were in 23-24. Chicago also went from 68 to 59 to 52 points over the last 3 seasons, wouldn't that suggest that rebuilds don't have to be some smooth linear clockwork progression and that progression can be non-linear?

I think it's a pretty logical perspective on a roster with a single 25 year old core player and the rest of the core being 23 or younger with our best defencemen being 20 and 22, and our best prospect still in Russia for the year.

I'm not asking for a magic trick, I'm asking for progression towards actually "being in the mix". The season is over once again and we're 5 games in. That's the same story as the last 4 seasons.

Maybe we Buffaloed and drafted a core of losers and we need to restart the rebuild.
Maybe we drafted a good core but the management isn't getting the core up to speed.

It can't be "we need to pick 5th overall for X number of years before we're good".

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

“I think that as the season progresses and it gets after the trade deadline, we’re still in there, playing meaningful games, competing for a spot,” Gorton said to define being “in the mix.”

Gorton's goal was for the the team to gain experience in meaningful games, not exactly to be fighting for a playoff spot late in the year. It was a fair expectation after acquiring Laine and a good challenge to the young guys on the team to show improvements from the previous seasons.

This team likely doesn't have the firepower to complete with other teams fighting for a spot in March/April, but it would be somewhat disappointing if no improvements were shown and they are already nowhere near a spot after 3/4 of the season.

 

[Walksss]

Oh man the overreaction is always entertaining. The sky is not falling, the season is not over, things will be alright guys.

A lot of players are underperforming to their talent levels, the top line does not look anything like last year but they've shown they're capable of dominating for long stretches in the NHL so I'll give them some time.

Adversity builds character. We're gonna see how this team responds, it will tell us the character of the important guys in this rebuild.

Either they have it or they don't.

 

[Tyson]

I've watched and been excited for maybe 2 minutes of the season. Terrible team.

No talent and it's decisions like the 2023 draft and the non-decision to tank that bring us to this point.

My frustration is with coaches and what they are or aren't doing.

 

[Riggins]

I think we're going to be bad to mediocre until Suzuki and Caufield are no longer our top offensive options. We need to find some talent to push them down to secondary options. I think Demidov will be one of those pieces, maybe Slaf as well. Maybe even Laine, who knows. After three top five picks we haven't added a potential 1C. I hope that changes this year if we are as bad as we look so far.

The depth is a problem now but should start to sort itself out in the next couple years. They need to bring in productive vets as these duds like Dvorak, Armia, Anderson and Co. are slowly purged.

The defence is so porous, just straight up terrible. There are too many kids being relied on at once. The best of them will rise to the top and secure spots while others flame out. Again, they need some minute-munching veterans to come in and produce and provide some stability. HuGo need to send out a bunch of picks next summer to bring in some support. We don't want to turn into Buffalo.

 

[Conflicted Habs fan]

Maybe they should turn off the team wait 30 seconds and plug it back on again. Try that!

 

[habdynasty]

Agreed. It's getting harder and harder to be Habs fan. I haven't one game yet this year after impatiently waiting all summer for the season to start. I just can't watch this trainwreck.

Delete

 

[JoelWarlord]

I'm not asking for a magic trick, I'm asking for progression towards actually "being in the mix". The season is over once again and we're 5 games in. That's the same story as the last 4 seasons.

Yeah I would have liked things to go better to start the year and hopefully they can turn things around. I'm fairly optimistic given the same roster was more competitive last year and we have Hutson now, although if these Slaf/Guhle injuries linger that could be trouble. I think the season was "over" before it started in terms of making playoffs but I think there's still time for it to "feel" better in terms of player progression.

I'm disappointed that I'm probably already close to the point where I'll check out from following every game if things don't turn around but it just doesn't really impact my medium to long term view at all. We're deliberately doing stuff that makes us worse right now (eg. giving big minutes/roles for Barron & Xhekaj, and now Mailloux) because it makes sense to give those guys runway to show what they can do because the tools/upside are very enticing. It's worth putting up with those guys getting turnstiled because if any one of them really hits they're a great piece to have, and if they don't we can just move on and bring in a vet 3rd pair D. Same with Newhook/Roy etc, if neither of them figures it out as a 2nd line winger then oh well, we can sign a vet to play with Laine or Caufield on our 2nd line (IMO Laine will end up with Slaf and Suzuki by the end of the year). Coaching I have concerns but I think I still lean toward it making sense to stick it out and see if St. Louis can figure things out instead of grabbing Alain Vigneault or something.

Combined with the bottom six contracts expiring and Anderson likely being dumpable with only 2 years remaining under a rising cap that's a lot of "easy" floor raising that we can do once we shift from prioritizing development and asset management to prioritizing immediate roster quality.

Maybe we Buffaloed and drafted a core of losers and we need to restart the rebuild.
Maybe we drafted a good core but the management isn't getting the core up to speed.

I don't think we really have much Buffalo risk even if the rebuild ends up taking longer than anyone would have hoped. Part of that is Suzuki is the only guy over 23. The absolute worst case scenario is something like him demanding a trade in 3-4 years but even that wouldn't impact us the same way as the Eichel/ROR trades did for Buffalo given the age of the rest of our guys. They're also doing cutesy shit like trading futures for McLeod and Maletsyn without spending to the cap, I just don't see us operating that way and Suzuki/Guhle bring a two-way conscience that Buffalo doesn't really have.

It can't be "we need to pick 5th overall for X number of years before we're good".

I agree, but for me the medium to long-term outlook doesn't really have much to do with future draft picks. If we end up having big injury problems and suck this year then getting a high pick and/or some lotto luck would be a nice silver lining, but I'm not really banking on contending around our 2025/2026 first round pick timelines. Setting Reinbacher aside for now I'm mostly just thinking about how we'll look with Guhle, Slafkovsky, Hutson, and Demidov with a year or two more development under their belts and with some of the slugs replaced by even average bottom sixers.

 

[Halakitlikethat]

I don’t think the sky is falling yet, but I don’t think management did a good enough job of turning the roster over the last 3 seasons.

 

[yianik]

Our biggest problem is all the damn knees , shoulders and what not that need rebuilding.

 

[HabsCode]

This shit can't take much longer. Teams rebuild in two years. The Hawks were good in the same time frame we were, they're coming out of it right now.

It's a failure on Molson, Gorton and Hughes if we're bad for another one. Patience is just a bullshit term thrown around because we get attached to incompetent people.

Montreal: 2-3 after 5 games. Rebuild takes too long.

Chicago: 2-2-1 after 5 games. They are coming out of it.

Come on man you can’t be serious. And let’s ignore the fact that Hawks lucked out on a year there was franchise talent in Bedard available at 1st overall.

We could have a better record than them 1 months from now. You guys need to calm down a little bit and realize we have a great young core of talented players plus guys like Demidov coming up. Things are looking bright, need just a little bit of patience while this young group is going through it.

 

[Ezpz]

There's definitely going to be steps back transitioning into more rookies playing but we need better vets to insulate them. Savard is worse on D than Gally/Anderson are at forward. At least in depth roles those two are still decent albeit mega overpaid. Savard doesn't look like he can hang in the NHL so far.

Up front there no vets in the top 6. Dvo freaking sucks as a depth guy. Worst trade bergy made by a mile and actually cost us significant assets at the most crucial stage of our rebuild.

 

[Kimota]

There's definitely going to be steps back transitioning into more rookies playing but we need better vets to insulate them. Savard is worse on D than Gally/Anderson are at forward. At least in depth roles those two are still decent albeit mega overpaid. Savard doesn't look like he can hang in the NHL so far.

Up front there no vets in the top 6. Dvo freaking sucks as a depth guy. Worst trade bergy made by a mile and actually cost us significant assets at the most crucial stage of our rebuild.

The issue is that Savard simply has too much importance. He's a 6th D in any other teams mainly cause of his age. He's a reliable guy who frankly no other Ds in this team are doing as far as blocking shots, leadership, etc....But we are where we are so we have to give him some ice time. But cracks are showing but we have no one else to replace him....

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Growing impatient because the Habs have been absolute ass for 680 out of the last 700 games. Impatience, or are we just the Sabres 2.0?

Were 28th in the league since 2015-2016 in the win column. Were tied with Ottawa. Were 7 wins ahead of the Sabres.

The Price induced run gave a lot of rope to Molson. Guess what though ? That run ended 40 months ago. Since then we've seen very marginal progress and almost none in the last 24 months.

I’m sorry but no.

We’ve gained significantly in season points, stocked our prospect pool, developed good young players. We’re light years ahead of where we were.

 

[Mrb1p]

Montreal: 2-3 after 5 games. Rebuild takes too long.

Chicago: 2-2-1 after 5 games. They are coming out of it.

Come on man you can’t be serious. And let’s ignore the fact that Hawks lucked out on a year there was franchise talent in Bedard available at 1st overall.

We could have a better record than them 1 months from now. You guys need to calm down a little bit and realize we have a great young core of talented players plus guys like Demidov coming up. Things are looking bright, need just a little bit of patience while this young group is going through it.

Did they luck our or did they plan it this way? That's my main criticism. They rebuild half-assedly and now we're further away than we would be if they didn't.

I’m sorry but no.

We’ve gained significantly in season points, stocked our prospect pool, developed good young players. We’re light years ahead of where we were.

Prospect pool, sure. We added Hage and Demidov and a couple busts. Who did we develop? Not sure.

 

[Pure Laine]

Did they luck our or did they plan it this way? That's my main criticism. They rebuild half-assedly and now we're further away than we would be if they didn't.


Prospect pool, sure. We added Hage and Demidov and a couple busts. Who did we develop? Not sure.

Lol a couple of busts, they just drafted them. Breathe.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Did they luck our or did they plan it this way? That's my main criticism. They rebuild half-assedly and now we're further away than we would be if they didn't.

????

We've had more first round picks since HUGO came onboard than almost any other team. We've leveraged cap space to get picks and prospects. We now have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league. How is that in any way a 'half assed' rebuild?

Prospect pool, sure. We added Hage and Demidov and a couple busts. Who did we develop? Not sure.

Caufield, Dach, Newhook, Slaf, Guhle... all developed and improved under MSL.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lol a couple of busts, they just drafted them. Breathe.

????

We've had more first round picks since HUGO came onboard than almost any other team. We've leveraged cap space to get picks and prospects. We now have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league. How is that in any way a 'half assed' rebuild?

Caufield, Dach, Newhook, Slaf, Guhle... all developed and improved under MSL.

And yet the Hawks had more drafting power. So did the Ducks. And CBJ. And the Sharks.

Caufield stagnated pretty hard and what was a promising elite prospect is now looking like a 2nd liner. Newhook is the same player he was in Colorado. Dach... mostly bad luck.

Guhle and Slaf did.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And yet the Hawks had more drafting power. So did the Ducks. And CBJ. And the Sharks.

Even if that's true (and I don't concede it is) so what? So we're the 4th best in terms of amassing prospects. That's still great.

Caufield stagnated pretty hard and what was a promising elite prospect is now looking like a 2nd liner. Newhook is the same player he was in Colorado. Dach... mostly bad luck.

Guhle and Slaf did.

Caufield was on the road to superstardom. He was derailed by injury. Again, not predictable. Even with 28 goals last year it’s first line production… He also has 13 goals in his last 14 games

Newhook is not the same player he was in Colorado. He was red hot before getting hurt last year and was hot at the end after coming back. He’s way better than he was.

Dach’ story is tragic. Great trade, but we haven’t gotten the benefits. It makes me cry.

Guhle and Slaf are great. Matheson has turned into a really solid offensive blueliner.

Who has he done a bad job with?

 

[Habs]

Our biggest problem is all the damn knees , shoulders and what not that need rebuilding.

would you agree we play a reckless system and one that doesn't benefit the makeup of the team? I'm not entirely sure of what our system is, but players are often trapped or put in vulnerable situations.

It's just confusing watching guys hang out 2ft from the boards, getting smoked into them and chasing pucks into corners night after night. We don't play in the middle of the ice, and we pay the price for it. This stems back since MSL arrived.