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Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part IV (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

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Wakko4Kakko said:
That’s clearly your opinion, but I would say 95%, if not more, analysts would disagree there. It’s pretty much a consensus that Hughes is the better prospect.
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Honestly how so?

Kakko has scored 29 goals in his last 36 pro games, including playoffs+ WC, 32 points in the last 30 games.
He broke the scoring record in Liiga.

He was the best player in the series against the Liiga champs, he's the best player AINEC for team Finland at the WC and straight up dominating.
 
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Ray Ferraro isn’t credible now? He’s probably the best analyst in the game.

By the way both kids are studs. Take either happily but I think (and I said this before the tournament even began) kakko is the better player. I think if his last name was Smith and he were from Toronto he’d be a lock at 1.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
Ray Ferraro isn’t credible now? He’s probably the best analyst in the game.

By the way both kids are studs. Take either happily but I think (and I said this before the tournament even began) kakko is the better player. I think if his last name was Smith and he were from Toronto he’d be a lock at 1.
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He's made some very odd comments all tournament about Kakko. Probably good, he's trying to lessen the hype so devs dont take him.
 
and I find the comments like "people were just ignorant of the Finnish league!" weird because NHL teams and their scouts aren't ignorant of the Finnish league and you can be sure Kakko has been well scouted all season long and they still had Hughes over him. Maybe some media and message board people didn't know how good Kakko was but NHL teams knew and they ranked him below Hughes.

No NHL team is watching Kakko now and going oh my god I never knew about this kid!
 
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ijuka said:
See. This argument is very stupid to me. Why is a more rapid rate of progression a negative?
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I havent seen a single person here saying that rapid progression is a negative. Not a single one. Definately not Wakko4Kakko in the post you quoted. Even if we value current observations more than older ones, we cant just ignore all the past data and focus on the 4 games Kakko has played in this tournament. Then again overvaluing rapid progression leaves you with Dylan McIlrath.

ijuka said:
Kaapo Kakko can't be super talented despite being a better player right now(confident in this) and having progressed faster over this year, because he was worse two years ago(have literally read this sort of stuff)? If he's progressing faster, isn't it logical to predict he'll continue progressing faster? Sometimes this logic is very strange. Very.
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Kakko is super talented. Just about everyone in this thread and even in all of hfboards seem to agree on that. Scouts and posters predicting that Hughes will be the better player for the next 10-20 years doesn't change that. Kakko has taken big leaps this year and that's great. That's why he is likely going #2. But drafting is about looking at an individuals skill set and projecting how those abilities will translate in the NHL once fully developed. As many posters and professionals have already said, Hughes has skills that project him to be a franchise center for the next 20 years. It's not about the now, or the next year or two bur rather the long game. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

I'm finnish so I'm more than fine with Kakko going #2 to NYR yet becoming the better player, but I still can't just call foul just because professionals project Hughes to be better. Hughes is not going #1 because he was thought to be better than Kakko last year, or 6 months ago or whatever. He is going #1 because NJ likely thinks that he will be the better player over their careers.
 
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I hope to god that these people stop bashing Hughes. The organization matters more than the draft number, and I think everyone outside the Devils would like to see Kakko at Rangers. Or wait, is that someone whining from Long Island?

I personaly hope Hughes would get atleast some points. He's not in an easy position with team USA.
 
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LOFIN said:
I hope to god that these people stop bashing Hughes. The organization matters more than the draft number, and I think everyone outside the Devils would like to see Kakko at Rangers. Or wait, is that someone whining from Long Island?

I personaly hope Hughes would get atleast some points. He's not in an easy position with team USA.
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Hes not in a prime position and the travel has to be exhausting, thats for sure.

But at the same time, Kakko is dominating with out a ton of help. Finland has scored 12 goals in the tournament, Kakko has had a hand in 7 of them (and was on ice for another 3 believe.)

I think the US game was probably his best game, and its the one time hes been held scoreless.
 
Edge said:
The downside of a message board with posters from 6 continents is that a belief can get completely out of hand before it's ever verified or challenged.

Having said that, I don't think 2019 has the depth of last year's. I think it's top 10-15 is slightly better than last year, but I do think there is a steeper drop as you get into the third and beyond.
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That's the way I've always viewed this class, although you can def grab some great value picks in the tweeter rounds (2-4), IMO.
 
Levitate said:
and I find the comments like "people were just ignorant of the Finnish league!" weird because NHL teams and their scouts aren't ignorant of the Finnish league and you can be sure Kakko has been well scouted all season long and they still had Hughes over him. Maybe some media and message board people didn't know how good Kakko was but NHL teams knew and they ranked him below Hughes.

No NHL team is watching Kakko now and going oh my god I never knew about this kid!
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Only thing I doubt here is these scouts... Who seems to be so lazy that have on half scout reports made direct word to word translate from our major soup opera magazine. Well that a huge source. Anyway Hughes will be great and hopefully he gets some more responsibility, cause right now its not really best possible situation to compare Kakko to Hughes when u see how much more ice time Kakko is having and how much responsibility.

Anyway back to scouts.. I still think that scouts who are picking drafts wont say a word about their real thoughts which you havent seen on media... and these "journalist" scouts sucks anyway. I'm simply cant believe too much scouts who have 2 year in row copypasted listing. :) And still NHL is making to often contracts to EU second round drafts. Last one from Finland , Aleksi Heponiemi Florida Panthers.. how about Petterson u20 all time shl point record, wch champion or aho 2nd round pick... and if we continue list we will find around 20 of 25 eu picks in top100 these original scouting lists which have failed and just in past 5 years. And at same time we find some puljujärvi.. who has always been between fans mediocre player. Overhyped when Aho played almost whole time with him. And #4 pick, no wonder Kekäläinen didnt picked Puljujärvi, when he got real Scout info (atleast what i want to believe). In my papers pulju wasnt top10 player on that list.

But even Im not really believe in list it gives pretty good perspective of players and possibilities..So im pretty sure that we can wait that both Kakko, Hughes will become atleast elite players.

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Still idea of Hughes huge ceiling over Kakkos performance is pretty scary.... For sure in this case Hughes only competition in NHL will be McDavid... :)
 
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Irishguy42 said:
Nah dude. This tournament >>>>>>>>>> years of games played outside of this tournament.

Obviously.

;)
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Of course, but I don't really believe that the outcome of the total sample size is that much different than what you get from watching the POs in Finland, pre-tournament games and the WCHs.

Like its not like Kakko was 15th 3 months ago, and than hit the ice and has an amazing WCHs and you wonder what on earth you are seeing. Kakko has been really strong for a year and a half and McKenzie has several times mentioned that while Hughes was unanimous No 1, Kakko wasn't that far behind in most views.

I buy the center argument, the 1-2 punch with Hirscher. That Hughes of course will grow into his body, and even if Kakko of course will grow too -- he won't grow out of any major flaws because he don't have any. Hughes has a major flaw in being young and weak like most 18 y/o's...

But I don't quite buy that Kakko only the last while challenge Hughes but that Hughes has proven to be way ahead of him up until now. Ahead yes, unanimous, probably, but still only by 1 spot.
 
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Levitate said:
and I find the comments like "people were just ignorant of the Finnish league!" weird because NHL teams and their scouts aren't ignorant of the Finnish league and you can be sure Kakko has been well scouted all season long and they still had Hughes over him. Maybe some media and message board people didn't know how good Kakko was but NHL teams knew and they ranked him below Hughes.

No NHL team is watching Kakko now and going oh my god I never knew about this kid!
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I understand your point, but would like to add a bit.

First of all it's difficult, even for scouts, to compare the very different leagues. It's also difficult to block out the hype Hughes has had in NA. And then it's difficult to put Kakko #1 on their lists as long as they feel certain NJ will pick Hughes. If we imagine a situation where NJ stated they want Kakko I believe he'd be #1 in some lists. Then there's nationalities, which often affects our opinions too.

I personally like both players and won't guess which one will be better in the future, but I believe under "usual circumstances" Kakko would go first. I just don't think there's much more a European prospect can show or produce, compared to Kakko's last 6 months. It may actually be a long time until the next time this happens. But there's plenty of other factors and due to all the previous hype it's become very very difficult to say no to Hughes.
 
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Edge said:
The downside of a message board with posters from 6 continents is that a belief can get completely out of hand before it's ever verified or challenged.

Having said that, I don't think 2019 has the depth of last year's. I think it's top 10-15 is slightly better than last year, but I do think there is a steeper drop as you get into the third and beyond.
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I'm tired of the discrimination against Antarctica, we have posters too. Dozens!
 
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I know one thing for sure, and that is that if you are NJD you only stand to lose from letting anyone know that you might not pick Hughes. If another decision comes, it will become known when its 200% final.

Like what would they gain from going public letting everyone know how extremely hard of a decision they have to make, they risk taking the wrong guy and seeing the best option go to their worst rival? Etc etc etc.

Keep a clean fasad up, pick your guy like its the most obvious choice in the world.
 
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