Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part III (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[BB88]

"Liiga champs only goal was to shutdown an 18 year old".

Pretty good I'd say.
Lot of people are just waking up to what's been happening for some time, but love to ignore it and go with 3 game sample size.

 

[OrlandK]

Laine is not a better skater...

Jesus this is a horrible take.

Like a little girl with a crush. Very sweet - I get it. Kaapo is the greatest at everything and will walk into the league with shock and awe.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Like a little girl with a crush. Very sweet - I get it. Kaapo is the greatest at everything and will walk into the league with shock and awe.

No its just inaccurate and stupid.

I wouldn't expect him to put up Laine numbers out of the gate since well, our team sucks. But your reasoning is awful and completely baseless.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Agree - Laine is much bigger, a better skater and has a better shot. Kakko is stronger with the puck, a shiftier skater and perhaps a higher compete level. They definitely have different styles. Just overall they are both talented powerful right wings who can score. Laine scored 64 points and than 70 his first 2 years. Odds are Kakko will not exceed Laine's #'s. Love Kaapo's potential but just trying to add a reality check to the hype train.

Dude Laine’s skating doesn’t compare to Kakko’s lol

Laine can barely f***ing turn, have you watched Kakko in the corners? His skating is masterful.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Devils AGM Tom Fitzgerald was gushing about Hughes at the end of the video.

 

[OrlandK]

You're very sweet but wrong again. KK can play with Zib - one of the better centers in the league and Kreds on the left. And while our D stinks defensively we have pretty good puck movers back there - Shatty, ADA, Fox so he will not be hindered from putting up numbers. Our team stinks yes - but defensively.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Hope you guys get Hughes hes franchise center.

Your shtick is tired. Espcially with how much you shit it out all over the board.

 

[OrlandK]

Dude Laine’s skating doesn’t compare to Kakko’s lol

Laine can barely ****ing turn, have you watched Kakko in the corners? His skating is masterful.

Actually my understanding from the scouts is that Kakko's skating is not elite. Agree that Laine is faster straight ahead but not as shifty as KK.
Re: KK hype train - KK faster , shiftier, works harder/better on the boards, better puck skills, etc. ; Laine's only possible edge is his shot - maybe. But KK can't be expected to put up Laine points. Sums it up?

 

[Ola]

Hockey is still a team game. The duo of Straka and Nylander really enabled Jagr’s great season with us. Laine is a player that also needs a lot of support on the ice.

When a kid like Laine is scoring all those goals and flying high — because he gets that support — his environment is always totally disregarded (if it’s not a Cheechoo playing with Jumbo scenario). But the environment matters extremely much in hockey.

A kid that scores extremely much one year, 44 goals, can finish like 2/3 of next season not scoring anything at all — due to small changes in how the defense adopts to him, linemates play and what not. We see the same thing all the time when players change teams.

Stats can be useful — but they can never even remotely be relied upon to tell the full story.

 

[Levitate]

Actually my understanding from the scouts is that Kakko's skating is not elite. Agree that Laine is faster straight ahead but not as shifty as KK.
Re: KK hype train - KK faster , shiftier, works harder/better on the boards, better puck skills, etc. ; Laine's only possible edge is his shot - maybe. But KK can't be expected to put up Laine points. Sums it up?

I think people just don't agree with your comparisons, are you too thin skinned to take some criticism for your opinions?

Very doubtful in my mind that Kakko does as well as Laine did in his rookie season and I doubt Kakko is as good a goal scorer as Laine in general, but he seems to play a more puck possession style and his game is built around that, while Laine's is built more around his shot. Kakko could be a more rounded player than Laine but not post the same goal totals and it could take him longer to reach some of the point totals that Laine did. Is he better than Laine? Dunno, some aspects of his game perhaps, but he'll have to show it in the NHL so until then I'm not going to make any predictions about who the better NHL player is

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Actually my understanding from the scouts is that Kakko's skating is not elite. Agree that Laine is faster straight ahead but not as shifty as KK.
Re: KK hype train - KK faster , shiftier, works harder/better on the boards, better puck skills, etc. ; Laine's only possible edge is his shot - maybe. But KK can't be expected to put up Laine points. Sums it up?

My understand from seeing him play is that his skating is elite (particularly for his size) outside of speed, which I’d say is slightly above average.

He’s basically impossible to contain down low.

Laine has an all time great shot and good hands/overall offensive instincts. But he isn’t a monster down low/on the forecheck like Kakko. He’s a very floaty player, and that’s not that big of a deal for an elite goal scorer, but he could be a lot more well rounded offensively if he applied himself.

 

[ijuka]

Laine might have generational shot and he had Wheeler and Scheifele feeding him at PP. While i agree Kakko looks more ready but he doesen’t have same kind of weapon like Laine has with his shot. I don’t think he will reach Laine kind of numbers because Rags doesen’t have same kind of supporting cast for him. I still believe Kakko is more talented than Laine. I like his skillset way more.

He might not reach Laine-like numbers, but I still think that 35-40 is pessimistic rather than realistic. It's a little early for predictions, I'll at least watch this tournament to the end. But it'll be higher than that, my prediction.

Let's remember Barkov played as 1C right off the bat, against the toughest competition, with total plugs.

 

[Blazephr]

Do we see a scenario where Kappo’s play starts rubbing off on players like Chytil, Andersen & Vesey? Even perhaps Buch?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The only thing Laine does better than Kakko is shoot it.

Even if he's "bigger", he certainly doesn't use his size. Kakko is a master at creating leverage and being tough to knock off the puck, NHL players, and good ones, have had trouble with him along the walls during the worlds. Wait until he fills out.

The vision, IQ, defensive details, etc. Kakko has an edge in all of these areas over Laine. They really couldn't be more different.

 

[Ola]

Kakko has tremendous balance and coordination which he uses really well when skating.

It’s a bit unique how fast he like can get going from a position where he is standing still pinned up against the wall, only to break out in either direction and with 3-4 strides get infront of the net and around the goalie. That is not speed in the sense of having fast legs, it’s more balance and coordination.

He also got a really good extended long stride that lets him take 3-4 really deep and powerful strides at high speed to maximize the distance he covers, and which he uses masterfully to get a step on a D and be able to lean in infront of him to prevent the D from getting to the puck.

What he don’t at all have is that Michael Nylander-esque ability to on cruise control zig-zag his way up the ice seemingly on cruise control. He can move the puck up ice, it’s not that, but when he does it’s by moving up ice with decieving speed before someone steps up at him which gives him an opportunity to get out of the way and before putting his head down and steam up ice.

That is not a big knock on him, guys built like Nylander and with extreme talent and coordination heads up ice like that. Malkin is more or less the only one 6’2 or bigger that I’ve seen do it the last decades. But it still deserves to be pointed out, and Kakko can also look a little rough in his stride in those situations. I think he has the natural talent to get it done, but he would have to work more on it.

 

[True Blue]

Kaapo Kakko right now, this very second is in my eyes a significantly better player than Jesperi Kotkaniemi. Only 40 points would be a shock to me. Understandable in a way, but still a shock.

Patrik Laine scored 64 and I think Kakko's significantly more NHL-ready. He'll have a big role also. Chances are, he's on the first line at some point.

You may be building him into something that he is not ready for. If we say that some sort of expectation exists between 40-50, then while 40 may be on the lower spectrum of range, it is still a readonable expectation.

 

[OrlandK]

I think people just don't agree with your comparisons, are you too thin skinned to take some criticism for your opinions?

Very doubtful in my mind that Kakko does as well as Laine did in his rookie season and I doubt Kakko is as good a goal scorer as Laine in general, but he seems to play a more puck possession style and his game is built around that, while Laine's is built more around his shot. Kakko could be a more rounded player than Laine but not post the same goal totals and it could take him longer to reach some of the point totals that Laine did. Is he better than Laine? Dunno, some aspects of his game perhaps, but he'll have to show it in the NHL so until then I'm not going to make any predictions about who the better NHL player is

Disagree is fine - dismissed as "weak and lazy" results in a response in kind. Also I find the hype train overdone which is my main point. We won't really know about KK's game, for all its tremendous potential, until he gets here. And I do find it funny that the Laine comparison elicits such a strong negative reaction - until he strangely went cold mid-season, after 2 1/2 strong seasons, Laine was one of the brightest young stars in the NHL. There is a message there to slow down on the KK hype train directy into the Hall of Fame. This is a tough league. Truth be told - one of the lower top ten picks will likely emerge as better; just based on the law of averages looking at past drafts. And I'm pretty confident that Hughes is more likely to be a superstar - his speed, shiftiness and puck skills are so special that I can't see him failing unless his size is problematic - but this seems to be the era of smaller players succeeding.

 

[Ola]

Do we see a scenario where Kappo’s play starts rubbing off on players like Chytil, Andersen & Vesey? Even perhaps Buch?

I certainly wouldn’t rule it out. These kids can really rub off on and trigger each other. That is the beauty of it all.

It’s also why you draft ‘character’. Every time a player does something on the ice, he sets the bar for everyone else. In practice or in games.

A competitive environment is just a very healthy environment to develop in. If you hit the ice to play better than your pal did the shift before, because you don’t want to be worse than him, it’s a no downside pressure you put on yourself. If you do the same because your coach just gave you a hairdryer it’s more downside involve.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You're very sweet but wrong again. KK can play with Zib - one of the better centers in the league and Kreds on the left. And while our D stinks defensively we have pretty good puck movers back there - Shatty, ADA, Fox so he will not be hindered from putting up numbers. Our team stinks yes - but defensively.

They suck on both ends.

Fun fact, the Rangers actually finished lower in GF/G in the league (8th) than they did in GA/G (9th) last year.

Kreider may not be here to start next year, Zucc and Hayes were also here for most of last season. Kakko is a good start to making up some of that, but on paper it's a weaker offensive squad than the one that they had in October.

That can change before the start of the season for sure, but I doubt anything significant happens on that end.

Also just because someone isn't a burner doesn't mean they aren't a strong skater. Jeff Skinner is a shrimp and not a burner, but hes an excellent skater.

Even Jack Hughes' top speed isn't anything overly special (It's good, but not elite) but the overall skating package is incredible.

The Laine comparison was met with push back because it's a lazy one. Might as well compare Fox to Pionk.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kakko has tremendous balance and coordination which he uses really well when skating.

It’s a bit unique how fast he like can get going from a position where he is standing still pinned up against the wall, only to break out in either direction and with 3-4 strides get infront of the net and around the goalie. That is not speed in the sense of having fast legs, it’s more balance and coordination.

He also got a really good extended long stride that lets him take 3-4 really deep and powerful strides at high speed to maximize the distance he covers, and which he uses masterfully to get a step on a D and be able to lean in infront of him to prevent the D from getting to the puck.

What he don’t at all have is that Michael Nylander-esque ability to on cruise control zig-zag his way up the ice seemingly on cruise control. He can move the puck up ice, it’s not that, but when he does it’s by moving up ice with decieving speed before someone steps up at him which gives him an opportunity to get out of the way and before putting his head down and steam up ice.

That is not a big knock on him, guys built like Nylander and with extreme talent and coordination heads up ice like that. Malkin is more or less the only one 6’2 or bigger that I’ve seen do it the last decades. But it still deserves to be pointed out, and Kakko can also look a little rough in his stride in those situations. I think he has the natural talent to get it done, but he would have to work more on it.

Tight area quickness. His is elite and that level of it isn't something you normally see from a forward, let alone one at that size who already understands how to use his body to shield defenders.

 

[bondra]

Comparing Kakko and Laine is like comparing Peter Forsberg to Brett Hull.

Laine is pure goal scorer who needs good playmaker next to him. Has much better shot than Kakko.

Kakko is more like a puck posession player, likes to stay on the puck and create his own scoring chances. Also Kakko is better playmaker than Laine.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Tight area quickness. His is elite and that level of it isn't something you normally see from a forward, let alone one at that size who already understands how to use his body to shield defenders.

This aspect of his game is the main reason why I think he’s every bit as good of a prospect as Hughes, if not better.

Kakko is a guy who could dominate ANY defender on the cycle/forecheck. Even Colton Parayko.

 

[Levitate]

Disagree is fine - dismissed as "weak and lazy" results in a response in kind. Also I find the hype train overdone which is my main point. We won't really know about KK's game, for all its tremendous potential, until he gets here. And I do find it funny that the Laine comparison elicits such a strong negative reaction - until he strangely went cold mid-season, after 2 1/2 strong seasons, Laine was one of the brightest young stars in the NHL. There is a message there to slow down on the KK hype train directy into the Hall of Fame. This is a tough league. Truth be told - one of the lower top ten picks will likely emerge as better; just based on the law of averages looking at past drafts. And I'm pretty confident that Hughes is more likely to be a superstar - his speed, shiftiness and puck skills are so special that I can't see him failing unless his size is problematic - but this seems to be the era of smaller players succeeding.

Laine is a weird case IMO, I think he's just a young really talented guy that had some success but after teams adjusted to him, struggled a bit at times. It's a constant battle to one up the other guys and figure out how to keep using your talents. In a lot of ways we should be happy if he's as successful as Laine, but I find their games so different that I don't think he'll have the same kind of challenges that someone like Laine has had. doesn't mean he'll be consistently better or something, just that challenges he faces will be different from what Laine has faced

 

[Edge]

I’ll put it out there now:

I will be very surprised if Kakko plays with Zibanejad, unless he’s skating on the left side.

 

[OrlandK]

Laine is a weird case IMO, I think he's just a young really talented guy that had some success but after teams adjusted to him, struggled a bit at times. It's a constant battle to one up the other guys and figure out how to keep using your talents. In a lot of ways we should be happy if he's as successful as Laine, but I find their games so different that I don't think he'll have the same kind of challenges that someone like Laine has had. doesn't mean he'll be consistently better or something, just that challenges he faces will be different from what Laine has faced

Agree. Laine is a strange example but it happens all the time. A player emerges as a likely superstar and the league adjusts, or some other factor occurs and the trend line dips. Ekblad, Nylander, Larsson, Johansen etc - seems to happen to the Euro's more than the North Americans. When I first saw Puljujarvi play @ MSG I thought he was amazing - a star in the making; now who knows if he'll even be good; maybe an Edmonton thing as they've had many. I'm not sure style of play is that useful an indicator in this regard; maybe grittiness which KK seems to have.