Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part III (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[Edmonton East]

Imagine if the Devils take Kakko because of a few games in a tournament that is probably the least prestigious of the big tourneys and is hardly "best on best".

That means the Devils threw out years worth of sample size that had Hughes as the consensus #1 and made a rash short term decision.

Would you have said the same thing when the Devs selected Nico over Patrick?

I have no concerns about either player being great. I do have concerns about evaluating Hughes' performance when his team was historically stacked and he played lesser competition for the most part. Of course, he'd still be the clear #1 if it wasn't for the fact Kakko has been amazing all year long.

Personally, after watching hours of tape from primarily the past year, I think Kakko is the safer pick right now and the better player. HOWEVER, I do worry Hughes just had another incredible season while actually coasting and will end up clearly better than Kakko.

Tough call. But luckily for the Rangers, the Devs have to make that call.

 

[JT Kreider]

Would you have said the same thing when the Devs selected Nico over Patrick?

I would... if the Flyers didn't immediately go ahead and draft Patrick ahead of Pettersson right after at 2.

 

[Unusual Suspect]

Watched both Finland games a few hours after they were played (OK, I screwed up the recording and had to watch the Slovakia empty-netter this morning) and some Kakkoisms that really grabbed my attention that I don't think are getting heavy attention in the preceding pages like they might...

-- The puck is like it's glued to his stick once he gains possession. You can see a goofy sample in the practice video clip posted a few pages back, but the kid is doing this stuff in game action against grown men. He just does not get separated easily from the puck.
-- He also combines anticipation and strength along boards and in corners really well. It feels like once he goes into a pileup, chances are like 70% he's the one to move the puck out and usually to good effect.

Seems to me he does just about everything well in the O-zone and will look like more of a playmaker with high skill linemates. It's been REALLY exciting as someone who doesn't see much non-NHL action to get a look at this guy and I really do hope he's our pick. Hughes may indeed have more upside... but first he's got to survive two or three years of being seriously undersized in the NHL. I have a feeling he's going to be splattered early and often. If he makes it to full growth still pretty much intact I expect he'll be a beast, but I very much like the fact that Kakko will be able to hold his own from Day One. I'll still be pretty thrilled to get Hughes in the unlikely circumstance that's how it plays out but count me fully on board the Kakko bandwagon.

 

[NernieBichols]

I'm glad Shero went on the record straight away after winning the lottery. Was a terrible move from a GM who should never reveal his cards in the begin with. He practically promised the Devils fan base that they'd have Hughes come June. It would be quite embarrassing to go back on that and draft someone else. At that point when I was watching the interview I remember wondering to myself if he had ever even seen Kakko (probably just heard of him).

With the way Kakko has presented himself in the WHC, I think he's not only shown the hockey world that there wasn't any "gap" in the begin with, but also has looked a much dominant player. In fact he's been a force and quite literally carried Team Finland so far despite of getting little ice time - nevermind the line mates, ha. Now with that said and Hughes left scoreless yet again against France, I'm starting to feel a bit nervous. As cool as it would be to have the first ever first overall pick, I'd much rather see Kakko wear NYR jersey.

The team is really horrendous on the paper and I doubt they are getting far once the opponent starts containing Kakko. So instead of winning the gold medal there's a larger chance of not getting any medals at all. Then again if that happened and Kakko lead his team to yet another gold medal, how would one justify not taking him first? Gah, maybe it's better not to overthink this and just see how it plays out.

To me the world championships are exhibition in a way. Made of mens players from around he world and NHLers at the end of a full season. While guys like kakko and Hughes have everything to play for. To me the world juniors is the more competitive tournament.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

To me the world championships are exhibition in a way. Made of mens players from around he world and NHLers at the end of a full season. While guys like kakko and Hughes have everything to play for. To me the world juniors is the more competitive tournament.

Ok but they are still playing against NHL competition which is nice to see. They are certainly giving more out there than pre-season games.

 

[NernieBichols]

Ok but they are still playing against NHL competition which is nice to see. They are certainly giving more out there than pre-season games.

For sure. I just mean I don’t kakko dominating this tournament is so amazing bc of that reason. Most of the non-nhlers are worse comp than your facing in the world juniors and it’s at the end of hockey season

 

[SnowFort]

I hate that this situation is actually stressing me out this much. My conclusion is that emotional attachment straight up sucks. I mean, we can never be sad over getting Hughes. Never. But after watching so much Kakko footage, hyping myself up over his playstyle and him joining the team, I would lie if I said that I wouldn’t feel hurt if the Devils selected him.

 

[duhmetreE]

This could be another Darnold/Mayfield scenario.

It's a win-win scenario IMO. There's no bad outcome for the NYR.

Kakko has a mans body. Hughes is still a boy. It's not a fair comparison in that regard. Hughes potential is astronomical

 

[AntNYR]

Imagine if the Devils take Kakko because of a few games in a tournament that is probably the least prestigious of the big tourneys and is hardly "best on best".

That means the Devils threw out years worth of sample size that had Hughes as the consensus #1 and made a rash short term decision.

I don't see it like that. I'm sure that if the Devils firmly think Hughes as the better prospect then nothing Kakko can do will change that. But let's speculate and say Devils are the team whose scout told Mckenzie that they have Hughes over Kakko at 51-49 and called the choice a coin flip. In such a situation both players performance in this B-level tournament just might prove meaningful. Not that I believe that. I'm sure Ray Shero and rest of the Devils management will do their due diligence on both players, look at all the available data and then go with Jack Hughes. Having a Hughes and Hischier as their centers for the next 10-15 years is just too good of an opportunity to pass on.

Personally I'm just here to enjoy the ride. We're either getting the guy who has 5 goals in 2 games in World Championship or we're getting a franchise defining center in Jack Hughes. Plus reading the nonsensical pickering over these two has become something of a guilty pleasure of mine. Seems there's never a hill too small to die on.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I would... if the Flyers didn't immediately go ahead and draft Patrick ahead of Pettersson right after at 2.

I was reading a 2017 draft rankings from like, January of that year when Pettersson and Andersson were both considered equal level prospect and both ranked around 30th. Elias shot up the rankings very late, and so did Lias to a lesser extent.

 

[Ola]

... No, maybe they want to give that image, but he always was a lock for that team, just like Laine was. I don't understand why I keep reading this. Jalonen isn't blind or stupid.

Kakko was coasting during the preparation games as if it was a given he'd make the team. And really, it was.

"Years of sample size" is absolutely worthless when dealing with players who improve.

I am sorry but how he looked in those games is completely irrelevant. The decision on the U18 was of course made long before those games started. Nobody expected him to be cut the last month, but Kakko’s decision came long before all no thank you’s from all NHL and KHL players.

 

[ijuka]

I am sorry but how he looked in those games is completely irrelevant. The decision on the U18 was of course made long before those games started. Nobody expected him to be cut the last month, but Kakko’s decision came long before all no thank you’s from all NHL and KHL players.

So what? He'd have made the team regardless. We knew that many NHL players would be declining regardless, even if all of them wouldn't have. Jukka Jalonen himself said that he'd have been OK with Kakko going to u-18s, but apparently you somehow know more than Finland's national team's head coach. But what can I expect when you didn't even have Kakko top 2 for the longest time? Can't have watched him very much.

To me the world championships are exhibition in a way. Made of mens players from around he world and NHLers at the end of a full season. While guys like kakko and Hughes have everything to play for. To me the world juniors is the more competitive tournament.

This just is not true at all. Look at how players perform historically, you'll see that WJC-u20s are a lot easier to do well at.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I think Hughes being undersized is actually a huge positive for him. So many fans get hung up on who the better player is right now, which is not the end goal at all.

 

[ijuka]

Well, Esa Tikkanen has now said that Glen Sather indicated to him that they'd like to pick Kakko. Also according to him, Jack Hughes will be selected by Devils "99%".

 

[broadwayblue]

I think Hughes being undersized is actually a huge positive for him. So many fans get hung up on who the better player is right now, which is not the end goal at all.

Yeah. Many do seem to be overly focused on that. The reality is neither of those kids is likely bringing NY the cup next June, so what's the big deal if we have to wait a year or two to get the best version of Hughes? We are in such a great spot at 2 everyone should be ecstatic. We're getting a dynamic player regardless of which one is on the board.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Imagine if the Devils take Kakko because of a few games in a tournament that is probably the least prestigious of the big tourneys and is hardly "best on best".

That means the Devils threw out years worth of sample size that had Hughes as the consensus #1 and made a rash short term decision.

It's more prestigious than any age group tournament. The WC is the most prestigious international tournament after the Olympics. And no. I don't think a gimmick tournament like the WCH which has been hosted 3 times in 2 decades comes even close.

 

[BB88]

I think Hughes being undersized is actually a huge positive for him. So many fans get hung up on who the better player is right now, which is not the end goal at all.

He just looks incredible small out there and maybe his frame just never will be anything to write about.
He can be same height than x but still looks very small.

& I say this as poster who wants Kakko to be a Ranger.
Have zero intrest seeing him go to New Jersey.

 

[CommaSynapse]

This could be another Darnold/Mayfield scenario.

It's a win-win scenario IMO. There's no bad outcome for the NYR.

Kakko has a mans body. Hughes is still a boy. It's not a fair comparison in that regard. Hughes potential is astronomical

Exactly. A lot of us might be attached to Kakko now, but getting Hughes would be massive for us. Either we get a potential #1 C or we get a potential #1 RW who could transition to C. Devils have to make the pick, and the pressure is off us.

 

[Ola]

So what? He'd have made the team regardless. We knew that many NHL players would be declining regardless, even if all of them wouldn't have. Jukka Jalonen himself said that he'd have been OK with Kakko going to u-18s, but apparently you somehow know more than Finland's national team's head coach. But what can I expect when you didn't even have Kakko top 2 for the longest time? Can't have watched him very much.

Sure, whatever.

BTW, was it right to -- not -- have Kakko No 2 as I had? In all likelyhood no. And since then especially vPod has dropped for me and Kakko has risen. But as you might notice if you just don't want to start some meaningless pissing game is that I wrote something like that it was a quote "super preliminary draft ranking" or something like that. To further show what you are about, you said that I "for the longest time" had him out of my top 2, lol, what was it, 2-3 weeks? Hahahahaha

 

[kelsier]

To me the world championships are exhibition in a way. Made of mens players from around he world and NHLers at the end of a full season. While guys like kakko and Hughes have everything to play for. To me the world juniors is the more competitive tournament.

I'm aware that North Americans don't really put much value on this tournament but I can assure you it's a big deal in the Europe and pretty much all of those teams are steaming ahead 100% trying to do their best. The level of competition is far ahead of WJC (apart for some third tier hockey nations), as you would imagine considering you have grown ups in one hand and kids on the other. It's the same reason why Hughes is struggling right now and cannot fully handle the physical aspects.

Yeah maybe some American or Canadian players are half-arsed but take Ovechkin for instance. He's a true patriot and always available to represent Russia (if indeed available). Anyway if you think it's easy what Kakko is doing right now, you don't begin to grasp how wrong you are there.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Shero, Stones, he doesn’t have them.

Hope so, Kakko is growing on me like a wart from a Thailand vacation

 

[RiffyNYR61]

Can we take a moment to appreciate having the #2 pick instead of #1? Imagine the scene here where NYR actually had to pick between them. It would be insufferable before, during, and after.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

This could be another Darnold/Mayfield scenario.

It's a win-win scenario IMO. There's no bad outcome for the NYR.

Kakko has a mans body. Hughes is still a boy. It's not a fair comparison in that regard. Hughes potential is astronomical

I like how only Hughes gets the "potential card". Kaapo apparently has none. This is it. His final form. He's not gonna get stronger, his skating won't get better and his shot wont get harder.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I like how only Hughes gets the "potential card". Kaapo apparently has none. This is it. His final form. He's not gonna get stronger, his skating won't get better and his shot wont get harder.

Exactly, kakko is already developed into a great player and can keep up with men and dominate at times...he’s only going to keep getting better too, so how come his potential isnt “astronomical” .

 

[JT Kreider]

It's more prestigious than any age group tournament. The WC is the most prestigious international tournament after the Olympics. And no. I don't think a gimmick tournament like the WCH which has been hosted 3 times in 2 decades comes even close.

World Juniors are more prestigious. This tournament is not even close to "best on best".