Speculation: The search for a new Head Coach - Rumors and Speculation

[Gliff]

Look, no one's opinion on the matter is invalid but I find it quite tiring that there's this presumption that just because Quenneville has a history of success, it is the best path toward contender-ship. The Ducks organization thought Cronin would (at least from a developmental perspective) bring us success and the results weren't exactly glowing.

I've made my feelings known on the moral implications and optics and I'm tired of talking about all that. If the hiring goes through I'll have plenty of feelings about it then.

But purely from a hockey perspective, Quenneville's best performance came when he had stacked rosters to work with. The Chicago cup winning teams, as much as we hated them and hated hearing about them, they were stacked with top talent. Quenneville's brief run with the Panthers was successful in terms of on ice performance but that was the beginnings of the current Panthers core that won the cup last year (Barkov, Gudas, Forsling, Bennett, Montour, Verhaeghe, Ekblad Luostarinen and Huberdeau+Weegar instead of Tkachuk). The Ducks are still developing their youth core and constructing a roster around it. The team is really not close to those Chicago or Florida teams.

This idea that Quenneville will arrive and we'll become a contender in short order is so naive to me. If Dostal keeps developing to solidify himself as one of the three best goalies in the league and we see massive spikes in development from the youth core, maybe then we're about three years out from seeing the Ducks as serious cup contenders. By that point Quenneville will be 69 years old going on 70. It's been brought up before but the oldest coach in NHL history to win a Stanley Cup was Scotty Bowman at 68 years old. Before he set that record, the oldest coach to do it was 55. Bruce Cassidy would've broken that record at 58 years old if not for Bowman.

I know what you're really saying is we need the Ducks to be competitive again, but that can be achieved with any number of these names and that's all, again, not touching any of the extraneous stuff related to the Blackhawks scandal.

Those rosters were stacked because players developed/got better under Q.

Half those players you listed for Florida were nowhere near the level of player they are until they came to Florida. Does he not get any credit for that?

 

[DavidBL]

I'm just going to leave this here. Just about everyone felt Cronin would be here next year, then PV let him go. I think it's safe to say we really have no idea who he'll hire.

 

[HanSolo]

Those rosters were stacked because players developed/got better under Q.

Half those players you listed for Florida were nowhere near the level of player they are until they came to Florida. Does he not get any credit for that?

That's fair. Maybe he can have a very positive on developing our youth. Not sure you can do worse than Cronin that respect so I'm not sure we can't still see the improvement we're all hoping for with other coaches but I didn't consider his impact on development enough and I'll concede I was wrong about that.

I still have doubts about the efficacy of a man who would be, unless I've missed someone, the oldest coach in the NHL and has been out of coaching altogether for an extended period of time.

 

[Rasp]

I'm just going to leave this here. Just about everyone felt Cronin would be here next year, then PV let him go. I think it's safe to say we really have no idea who he'll hire.

Yep he did the best thing for the team when everyone thought the obvious thing was for Cronin to get another year. Got to give him the benefit that he will make the best choice for the team

 

[eaterfan]

Yep he did the best thing for the team when everyone thought the obvious thing was for Cronin to get another year. Got to give him the benefit that he will make the best choice for the team

Or maybe we view him as the guy who got multiple reports from veterans of a coach verbally advising players and not taking their well being into account after one year and let the coach stay on one year too long. Maybe we view him as a GM who is more than fine enabling the abuse of his players.

 

[Gliff]

That's fair. Maybe he can have a very positive on developing our youth. Not sure you can do worse than Cronin that respect so I'm not sure we can't still see the improvement we're all hoping for with other coaches but I didn't consider his impact on development enough and I'll concede I was wrong about that.

I still have doubts about the efficacy of a man who would be, unless I've missed someone, the oldest coach in the NHL and has been out of coaching altogether for an extended period of time.

He has been out of the league for 3 years, not 10. And before he left, his team was the best team in the league.

I understand the concern about the off ice stuff, but on ice I would put him in the elite coaches in the NHL. He is perfect for where this team is on the ice.

Or maybe we view him as the guy who got multiple reports from veterans of a coach verbally advising players and not taking their well being into account after one year and let the coach stay on one year too long. Maybe we view him as a GM who is more than fine enabling the abuse of his players.

WTF are you talking about. Cronin was a terrible coach but he wasn't abusive to the players. And saying PV is okay with his players being abused is bullshit.

 

[JAHV]

I don't think Quenneville would be hired with the expectation that he wins a Cup with the team in the next three years. I think he gets hired to bring the team to the playoffs in the next year or two, and further develop the young core as contenders. Even if you believe that he got lucky with a stacked Blackhawks roster, his history shows that he's really good at getting teams to the postseason. I think that's what Verbeek would be looking for.

It's certainly possible that the game has passed him by in the last four years and that his advanced age will keep him from being effective. But I don't think that's especially likely. And given all the backlash and scrutiny there will be, I doubt Quenneville would be getting back into this if he wasn't going to try to prove he can still coach.

Also, disclaimer that I still am opposed to his hire. But I feel like we've beaten that particular horse to death so it's on to arguing the merits.

 

[Emerald Duck]

If Q is the choice, then I don't think he's being hired for a long tenure run like Cooper or Bednar. He's here to push the players and franchise to the next level. If that results in a SC, then that's great, but I don't see him being here more than 3 years based on his age. He's a transition coach for the next guy (McIlvane, Carle or someone else), and while I don't care about his personal legacy, I think he wants to go out on a higher note than how he left the NHL four years ago.

 

[ohcomeonref]

I don't think Quenneville would be hired with the expectation that he wins a Cup with the team in the next three years. I think he gets hired to bring the team to the playoffs in the next year or two, and further develop the young core as contenders. Even if you believe that he got lucky with a stacked Blackhawks roster, his history shows that he's really good at getting teams to the postseason. I think that's what Verbeek would be looking for.

It's certainly possible that the game has passed him by in the last four years and that his advanced age will keep him from being effective. But I don't think that's especially likely. And given all the backlash and scrutiny there will be, I doubt Quenneville would be getting back into this if he wasn't going to try to prove he can still coach.

Also, disclaimer that I still am opposed to his hire. But I feel like we've beaten that particular horse to death so it's on to arguing the merits.

That last sentence should be stickied somewhere.

 

[eaterfan]

He has been out of the league for 3 years, not 10. And before he left, his team was the best team in the league.

I understand the concern about the off ice stuff, but on ice I would put him in the elite coaches in the NHL. He is perfect for where this team is on the ice.


WTF are you talking about. Cronin was a terrible coach but he wasn't abusive to the players. And saying PV is okay with his players being abused is bullshit.

Lubyubushkin and Silferberg are NHL veterans. Luby has been around the NHL and Silferberg is a pretty reserved guy. Both guys publicly said Cronin crossed the line and Luby said it affected the psychological well being of the locker room. Both are guys who know the difference between regular NHL hard-ass stuff and when it crosses the line into abusive. It is out there in public that it has been brought to Verbeek. I believe Cronin himself admitted he crossed the line and was trying to dial it back this year. If that's what's out in the public, especially from Silferberg, the stuff that's not out there is worse. Not all abuse is hitting or sexual abuse.

 

[FiveTacos]

If Q is the choice, then I don't think he's being hired for a long tenure run like Cooper or Bednar.

Then why not choose one of the other Cup winning retreads? Hell, Torts has a pretty good history of getting teams to the playoffs, has a Cup a long with some other playoff runs, etc.. He could certainly manage as a short term solution if that's all you want, without the baggage.

 

[Gliff]

Lubyubushkin and Silferberg are NHL veterans. Luby has been around the NHL and Silferberg is a pretty reserved guy. Both guys publicly said Cronin crossed the line and Luby said it affected the psychological well being of the locker room. Both are guys who know the difference between regular NHL hard-ass stuff and when it crosses the line into abusive. It is out there in public that it has been brought to Verbeek. I believe Cronin himself admitted he crossed the line and was trying to dial it back this year. If that's what's out in the public, especially from Silferberg, the stuff that's not out there is worse. Not all abuse is hitting or sexual abuse.

Ya, and not all negative action is "abuse".

You can be an unpleasant asshole without being abusive.

 

[eaterfan]

Ya, and not all negative action is "abuse".

You can be an unpleasant asshole without being abusive.

Sure, but based on the quotes from Luby and the Silf, I think he crossed the line. Luby said it was harming their psychological well being and Silf said it was affecting their physical well being. And that's before getting into the stuff we don't know about. And this stuff is coming from a guy in a position of authority.

It's important to consider the sources, too. These aren't rookies who haven't dealt with hard driving coaches. These are veterans who have been around the block and seen and heard it all.

 

[Gliff]

Sure, but based on the quotes from Luby and the Silf, I think he crossed the line. Luby said it was harming their psychological well being and Silf said it was affecting their physical well being. And that's before getting into the stuff we don't know about. And this stuff is coming from a guy in a position of authority.

It's important to consider the sources, too. These aren't rookies who haven't dealt with hard driving coaches. These are veterans who have been around the block and seen and heard it all.

Ya, you're speculating and making some pretty serious accusations from 2 interviews that did not call him abusive.

Taking that speculation to then speculate that PV is "fine enabling the abuse of his players" is in fact, bullshit.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Quenville Interviewed with NY as well.. So calm down you guys..

 

[KelVarnsen]

Quenville Interviewed with NY as well.. So calm down you guys..

Just saw that. He would face a shit storm of media attention there.

 

[Mr Rogers]

The Rangers really don't have a compelling roster

 

[eaterfan]

Ya, you're speculating and making some pretty serious accusations from 2 interviews that did not call him abusive.

Taking that speculation to then speculate that PV is "fine enabling the abuse of his players" is in fact, bullshit.

Dude, this isn't a court of law. We're humans who have brains and we can use our judgement. I'm not saying Cronin needs to be in jail or shouldn't be hired ever again. I'm not saying PV should be fired. I'm just saying it's reasonable to believe based on what we already know that Cronin was pretty abusive to his players and PV knew about it and let him keep his job.

Treatment of players is a major part of the job. I'm not sure PV should be "given the benefit of the doubt that he'll do what's best for the team" when he let a guy who did this (and wasn't even a great hockey coach) keep his job for a whole extra year.

 

[70sSanO]

They definitely wanted to test fan reactions before going through with it. Will be interesting to see if he ends up being hired.

I agree. I also think this vetting process started months ago.

And I don’t believe PV did not have a specific coach in mind when he decided to fire Cronin. That was pure PR in case things don’t work out.

I would rather find a good young coach that fits with the players and grows with the organization long term. That is such an unknown and the misses generally greatly outweigh the hits. It should have been done instead of Cronin. Now it is replacing one old guy with an older one.

It never ceases to amaze me how retreads, including Quenneville, find jobs over and over again after being fired.

90% of the time they fail in the same manner. But there is always that hope that a veteran coach will be a Sutter, or Maurice, or maybe DeBoer this year, will have the right mix of players and win it all.

John

 

[zegrassyknoll]

Just saw that. He would face a shit storm of media attention there.

On the flip side, Dolan and Drury seem immune to the media shit storm so that might be attractive to Q. They can weather it out together.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

Man ...

But why is only Q stuff leaked? For the second time. We have no leak about any other candidate.

PS
As far as I remember, Cronin had 2 interviews before hiring

Q is being leaked because Q is the only coach polarizing enough to drum up conversation.

Nobody would care if Trevor Letowski was interviewing for the spot (sorry Trevor).

 

[MMC]

 

[zegrassyknoll]

I don't blame Ferraro because thousands have done it before him and thousands will do it after him but the "he's my friend, he's a good guy" reasoning holds literally 0 weight

 

[Peruna]

No thanks to Q. He even looks like Josef Fritzl.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

I feel at least somewhat consoled that Woodcroft/Carle/Sullivan (don't want him but still)/and others are in the mix.

Also interesting that Carle withdrew from Chicago but not from us.