The San Jose Sharks are horror-bad

[Chainshot]

The lottery is worse for league integrity. If a team really is the worst, they should have the highest pick to get back on the road to respectability sooner.

 

[SladeWilson23]

The lottery is worse for league integrity. If a team really is the worst, they should have the highest pick to get back on the road to respectability sooner.

No they shouldn't. The team that deserves the highest picks are the teams that barely miss the playoffs.

The worst team shouldn't be owed anything. There's too many mechanics and moving parts for last place teams to improve given by the league to just simply award them the 1oa.

 

[Chainshot]

No they shouldn't. The team that deserves the highest picks are the teams that barely miss the playoffs.

There is no competitive league that operates in that fashion and it's for good reason. A team that falls upon hard times would be artificially hamstrung trying to climb back to respectability.

The worst team shouldn't be owed anything. There's too many mechanics and moving parts for last place teams to improve given by the league to just simply award them the 1oa.

So the NFL does it wrong?

 

[weastern bias]

No they shouldn't. The team that deserves the highest picks are the teams that barely miss the playoffs.

The worst team shouldn't be owed anything. There's too many mechanics and moving parts for last place teams to improve given by the league to just simply award them the 1oa.

No one "deserves" anything, professional sports is an entertainment product and the league is responsible for maintaining the value of its franchises

When teams fall on hard times the easiest way to improve their performance is to inject talent onto their roster, hence the reverse standings order entry draft that every North American professional sports league has implemented

Arguments about who "deserves" what are meaningless, but the NHL knows that it's bad for business when teams can't be competitive on a nightly basis, not even in terms of the on ice product, but in their ability to compete for customers' dollars over any other entertainment product they can spend their money on

The Sharks used to sell out games on a nightly basis when they were competing and now the arena is a ghost town, the San Francisco Bay Area is too lucrative of a market with too much disposable income for the NHL to miss out on, hence they will boost interest in the product by injecting exciting and marketable talent into their system through the entry draft, so long as the organization doesn't flub the picks, anyway

 

[Skeksis25]

I love that people's solution to the, "Your team is so bad, its embarrassing the league" problem is to deprive them of the chance to acquire high end talent.

 

[Cas]

The league needs to step in at this point, have the Sharks play in AHL for the year and call up another team

The NHL has no power nor incentive to do this. If Bettman proposed this in an owner's meeting, he'd be fired within hours.

...

The thing is, the Sharks probably would be just as bad if they weren't tanking.

The Sharks were the worst team in the NHL last year, despite two-thirds of a season of Timo Meier and an entire season of Erik Karlsson having one of the greatest seasons any defenseman has ever had. Where would the Sharks be this year if they had kept Meier and Karlsson? In the basement, maybe with a 2-8-1 record instead of 0-10-1, and maybe without a pair of 10 goal losses (maybe they're just 6 goal losses instead). Add Burns too and they're not really any better - maybe 3-7-1 instead. None of that is any better - it just wouldn't be as embarrassing, but I'm less concerned about that.

Not only that, but the Sharks with Karlsson, Meier, and Burns are then short two good prospects (Mukhammadullin and Musty), two mediocre prospects (Okhotiuk and Makiniemi), and another potentially high 1st (from Pittsburgh). They'd be a basement-dweller with zero potential impact defensemen (save perhaps Hävelid and Cagnoni, each of whom are multiple years away and far from a high chance of success) and two, maybe four potential impact forwards (Eklund, Smith, maybe Bordeleau and Gushchin, with the same high bust potential for the latter two).

Grier hasn't exactly been a miracle worker - I've been disappointed with the process of certain moves (Balcers, Kunin), and I have yet to see a reclamation project work out (Zadina, Lindblom), I think he's overvaluing apparant toughness at the expense of skill and real toughness (Ferraro, Kunin again, Burroughs, Benning), and his management moves (and non-moves) haven't always filled me with positive thoughts (hiring Quinn, not firing McCarthy) - but the fact is that Grier was brought in to take over an astonishingly bankrupt team, one with almost no farm system worth a damn and a series of bad and immovable contracts to veterans (Vlasic, Couture, Hertl, Labanc, Simek, Karlsson until he decided to ascend to godhood).

There is no way to climb out of that hole in any short time frame - the Sharks had almost no assets they could sell for valuable futures, no cap space to bring in quality veterans (and no incentive for anyone worthwhile to sign outside of money), and no prospects to move to improve the team that wouldn't simply be selling the future to aimlessly bouy the present. The Sharks were doomed to a future in the basement before Grier was even hired. It is possible that they wouldn't be as hideously embarrassing, while still losing, but only at the cost of futures or by assuming that unrealistic expectations would be fulfilled (like signing some decent-ish vets they probably couldn't afford or who had no reason to come to the Bay Area, or totally fleecing other teams in trades with video game-like returns).

Doug Wilson simply left this team in a hopeless position. Grier is trying to build a future, but this house was so damaged that the only thing to do was to tear it down, blow up the foundation, and burn down all of the trees for miles around, leaving a blasted heath of nothingness that could be built up from scratch.

 

[Grub]

It's really not a good look. The culture you set up doing this is not worth it at all, just look at the Oilers.

 

[Cas]

No they shouldn't. The team that deserves the highest picks are the teams that barely miss the playoffs.

The worst team shouldn't be owed anything. There's too many mechanics and moving parts for last place teams to improve given by the league to just simply award them the 1oa.

The point of the draft is not to reward anything, or to be fair to anyone.

The point of the draft is to reduce costs for owners, with the added benefit of preventing a financially-advantaged team from leveraging that advantage to sign the best prospects at the expense of everyone else, and aiding the health of the entire cartel - I mean league - by assigning the best prospects to the worst teams to help them get out of the basement faster. The primary overriding rationale, though, is to reduce costs for owners.

'Deserves' got nothing to do with it.

In fact, the draft lottery perturbs the rationales for having an amateur draft, by making it much, much harder for the worst teams to break out of the basement. Frankly, I think the rationale for the lottery is window dressing - selling an idea of "fairness" to the fans - to artificially drum up drama and attention for the league, with a side benefit of boosting the gambling profile of the league (because you can bet on the outcome of the lottery). I think its disgusting, Just pick in reverse order - if you want to move the Cup winner and runner-up to the end of the round, fine, but I don't think that's necessary - and be done with it. All the lottery does is pointlessly weaken the worst teams, with detrimental effects on the entire cartel, to sell some myth of fairness to the fans that doesn't actually matter or exist.

It's really not a good look. The culture you set up doing this is not worth it at all, just look at the Oilers.

The Oilers' problem isn't their losing culture, it's their incompetent management being unable to find reasonably talented depth that can support McDavid and Draisaitl. Get some actual talent around them (and yes, the handful of other worthwhile guys like RNH and Ekholm), and you will wind up with that "winning culture."

"Winning culture" comes from talent, not from having a "winning mentality." No talent, no winning culture.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Grier is actually playing the absolute trash plugs Dubas sent him? No wonder they got pumped 2 nights in a row. Those 3 players made the Sharks worse by themselves, then add the subtraction of Karlsson on top of that and you may be seeing one of the worst teams in the Cap era.

Jan Rutta is pretty solid, I'd take him back on the pens.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Going to the "Shark tank" now has a whole new meaning for fans.

 

[Kryten]

I say bring in Dallas Eakins and let him work his magic.

Quenneville should be forced to coach the Sharks

 

[karltonian]

This is why the lotteries should just be a cycle.

You'll never have teams tank this bad if they couldn't promise hope to their fanbase.

so that's just the thing. there is no hope being promised. this is just a shit sandwich.

Firing Quinn is probably the first and only thing he can do. Teams don't get spanked 10 goals back to back without completely mailing it in. If you played hard enough, blocked some shots, whatever, even had a decent coaching plan, you don't get embarrassed. I watched both of those games. The goaltending was subpar but not 10 goals bad. The performances by the Canucks and Penguins weren't cup contender juggernaut performances either. Even when the score was out of control and the Canucks and Penguins let up, the Sharks players never took what was given to them. They couldn't be bothered to match the opposition's 50% effort. Lanes were still wide open, time and space was aplenty. On so many of those plays, I don't blame the Canucks or Penguins players for trying to score up 8 goals, there was just no pressure. The Sharks weren't mad they were being embarrassed. It wouldn't be an reflex reaction. It can be for the long term culture of the team to boot Quinn.

you say this as if the team is capable of taking more than what they took. they aren't.

 

[The Hobgoblin]

The Sharks are rebuilding. They are bad but these calls for them to be kicked out of the league or insulting their fans is hyperbole run amok. You can't blame the FO for wanting to bust this thing down to the brass tacks and do the painful process of a full rebuild.

I have seen this with my Blackhawks and Thrashers/Jets. You either fully embrace a rebuild or you get stuck in the no man's land where you never get the top talent in a system to develop to hopefully get you out of the basement.

Yes, the Sharks are really, really bad. Their being 3-7 if they kept a few guys isn't going to move their needle. I just hope for Sharks fans sakes that their FO gets some good young talent out of this.

 

[Fenway]

Pretty much the only thing he can do is replace David Quinn, who he hired, which puts the target on his back.

I am positive both Quinn and Grier have talked to their mentor at Boston University, Jack Parker in recent days.

Meanwhile, what is the ownership's endgame for the franchise after the lease at SAP Center ends in 2025?

Lord Bettman will babble that all 32 franchises are healthy

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I find it crazy that we're in November now and SJ is winless 0-10-1 but are still only 4 points back of EDM

 

[BB88]

The lottery is worse for league integrity. If a team really is the worst, they should have the highest pick to get back on the road to respectability sooner.

It would be a damm bad look for the league to reward something like this.

Do you want to start seeing teams being this garbage every year?

 

[weastern bias]

I find it crazy that we're in November now and SJ is winless 0-10-1 but are still only 4 points back of EDM

Edmonton and Calgary are far more shocking than San Jose

SJS is tanking and ripped it down to the studs, those two teams just haven't built a winning roster even with the strong talent they have managed to aquire and it's so bad that they're barely ahead of a winless team in the standings

It would be a damm bad look for the league to reward something like this.

Do you want to start seeing teams being this garbage every year?

You're right, no one tanks now thanks to the draft lottery

 

[Beukeboom]

I love that people's solution to the, "Your team is so bad, its embarrassing the league" problem is to deprive them of the chance to acquire high end talent.

Why should poorly run organizations be rewarded?

 

[clydesdale line]

San Jose likely is guaranteed one of Celebrini, Eiserman or Demidov/Catton/Levshunov/Dickinson. I don't even know what they need in that org more a defenseman or forward. I'm saying it now in November, there's not a single team catching them for the worst record in the league.

 

[weastern bias]

Why should poorly run organizations be rewarded?

Because, as has been noted, it's not about "rewarding" an underperforming organization, it's about redistributing talent to the lower rungs of the league to ensure the health of all 32 franchises

The worst teams picking first is in the NHL's best business interest

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

No they shouldn't. The team that deserves the highest picks are the teams that barely miss the playoffs.

The worst team shouldn't be owed anything. There's too many mechanics and moving parts for last place teams to improve given by the league to just simply award them the 1oa.

The problem with this mentality is it all but guarantees bad teams will remain bad because they have virtually no way of improving. Let's say such a system was in place right now. What does San Jose do to dig themselves out of the grave? They'd have no "star" player to look forward to after what will be a humiliating season and won't be a UFA destination due to being in a rebuild phase.

Basically, they'll just be stuck in purgatory until they get lucky with later draft picks.

As noted above, the draft has nothing to do with "rewarding" bad teams but redistributing talent.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

San Jose likely is guaranteed one of Celebrini, Eiserman or Demidov/Catton/Levshunov/Dickinson. I don't even know what they need in that org more a defenseman or forward. I'm saying it now in November, there's not a single team catching them for the worst record in the league.

That's bold of you to say about a team with a -43 goal differential through 11 games.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

lol, good one.

Which realistic asset did Grier miss out on then?

 

[Dr Pepper]

No they shouldn't. The team that deserves the highest picks are the teams that barely miss the playoffs.

The worst team shouldn't be owed anything. There's too many mechanics and moving parts for last place teams to improve given by the league to just simply award them the 1oa.

So Pittsburgh deserved Bedard more than Anaheim?

Interesting take.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I am positive both Quinn and Grier have talked to their mentor at Boston University, Jack Parker in recent days.

Meanwhile, what is the ownership's endgame for the franchise after the lease at SAP Center ends in 2025?

Lord Bettman will babble that all 32 franchises are healthy

Probably try and extort San Jose into building a new arena with their upcoming attendance woes

Edit: Opened in 1993, they have one of the oldest arenas

List of National Hockey League arenas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org