The Saint Mikael Granlund hypetrain part 2 (saucer passes turning to wine!)
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The Winter Soldier
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If you are implying Finland has developed good goalies, I have already said they have in numerous posts. My point is they have not developed elite players as per for their hype.
As for Thomas 54 games in 04-05 is debatable as being a Major influence. Thomas also played in the SEL, IHL, AHL, and US College hockey. They had as much influence as the FEL.
The Winter Soldier
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Finland has developed many good NHL players, and many more useful NHL players.
Finland has also developed many excellent goalies, but only one elite player.
Think this is the most accurate statement.
Finland has also developed many excellent goalies, but only one elite player.
Think this is the most accurate statement.
Jari Kurri was only a product of Gretzky, had a terrible shot, fluked a nother 100 point season without Gretzky because league was terrible that year.
Also was a liability because of his terrible 2-way play and a notorious playoff choker.
Also was a liability because of his terrible 2-way play and a notorious playoff choker.
The Winter Soldier
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Jari Kurri was a very good hockey player, I would not disagree with this statement.
156 games in finnish elite league playoffs games included and he has stated several time that FEL was huge reason why he became succesfull. So you know better than Tim Thomas himself? You are making big statements with no knowledge or any research done. That is not very smart...
You're saying that Mike Modano and Patrick Kane are elite but Kurri isn't? Kurri was 3rd highest scoring winger without Gretzky at 1988-1989 season with 102 points. Kurri was very strong playoff performer and played excellent two-way game. There is a reason why he is hockey hall of fame and to me only elite players will get there. You're downplaying Jari Kurri big time by saying that he isn't elite but very good. Selänne was one of the NHLers highest scoring players and didn't win art trophy because he had to compete with Lemieux.
The Winter Soldier
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I said pretty clearly, that Finland has developed many outstanding Goalies. This is one area that they do well. Not sure what you are trying so hard to argue, since I have stated Finland has developed very good Goalies already.
As for Tim Thomas, he was not solely developed in Finland. Was playing in the FEL part of his development, yes.
Did he solely learn his trade in the FEL, no. He has played all over the world as his record indicates.
The Winter Soldier
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Tim Thomas has stated himself that FEL was the biggest reason that he became elite NHL goalie, he also ha stated that it was FEL that prepared him the most to the NHL and he gained confidence from FEL and said that it made him scareless for the NHL.
You also stated that other leagues had as much influence as FEL for his career... Do you know better than Tim Thomas himself? I'm not saying that he was solely developed in FEL but you're downplaying the impact of FEL for his developement as you're downplaying Teemu Selänne, Jari Kurri and finnish prospects and you're saying that Kane or Modano are elite who are way below Kurri and Selänne in their careers. Yes, Kane has a Conn Smythe but Selänne has many International tournament MVP awards. He is all time scoring leader in the olympic games... Selänne has done big impact everywhere he has played and is definetly elite. He is one of the top goal scorers ever in the NHL by career goals and his point totals are in the top aswell and he suffered from injuries big time at some point of his career.
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The Winter Soldier
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Explain this?
Tim Thomas himself has stated that FEL was crucial for him and it prepared him the most for the NHL.
Your down
playing alot of finnish hockey. Not saying that you're saying it is bad but down playing alot. You can't just swallow that Barkov went 2nd overall when you predicted himself to the 7-10+ range. You also placed Bo Horvat as good prospect as Barkov. That tells everything about you're knowledge. Not saying that Bo Horvat is a bad player because i like him alot but Barkov is on different level or even couple levels and everyone knows that except you.
I'm fine that you have own opinions and everything but i don't like how you need to downplay players without any knowledge or fact. Mostly they are bad comparisons or false. If you put something real on the table then it would be ok. Nothing wrong to have differend opinions but it's wrong to be dumb and say big statements without actual knowledge about the thing.
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The Winter Soldier
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My statement doesn't need any explanation, Tim Thomas's experiences through playing as a journeyman goalie through many leagues has shaped him as a Goalie.
You are making a claim that it is massively due to him playing in the FEL. I think this is a great over exagerration.
Fact is all the experiences Tim Thomas has gone through made him what he is today, he was an underdog that found success late, if anything I would say his Perseverance and never giving up is more a factor than any one league.
To claim it was due to him playing 53 games in the FEL in a lock out year before signing with the Bruins is pure homerism, and really not giving credit to Thomas or the journey he took.
53 games? He has played 156 games in FEL playoffs included. I'm just referring Tim Thomas. He has said those things himself. You think you know better than himself?
Use google translator:
http://www.kaleva.fi/urheilu/jaakie...m-thomas-ehtii-seurata-myos-sm-liigaa/584008/
Other link(english) more about his time in finland:
http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&sourc..._IDACA&usg=AFQjCNGqAjSvBatDwQjYKXHgRbVlpLzmBA
He is still visiting in finland every 2 or 3 years and that tells about his strong feeling for finland.
Interview of Tim Thomas. I think that you without any knowledge try to act that you know alot from this case but the truth is that you know nothing and that tells everything about you as a poster...
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Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
No... Thomas said it himself that the FEL was one of the bigger reasons. Ill take the goaltenders word (since it was his development and all) over yours.
Tim Thomas has even named his dog as a "koira" what is finnish word for a dog. He has also stated that he was very happy in finland and said that he would of been happy if he ended up playing rest of his career in finland. Tim Thomas has very strong bond for finland.
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2011/06/16/tim-thomas-american-hockey-hero/
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2011/06/16/tim-thomas-american-hockey-hero/
The Winter Soldier
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The article mentions Thomas has "fond" feelings for Finland. Not sure what you are getting at with this angle.
Article also mentions he used the lock out season in FEL to "turn some heads" Increase his exposure. As well as Thomas playing in in four different countries, home. He played in the AHL, the ECHL, the now-defunct IHL, as well as making stopping in Finland and Sweden.
Now I already pointed out those 53 games in the FEL being part of his succes, so I am confused where it says as you claim that it made Tim Thomas as a Goalie.
You really need to read my posts, I am not responding any longer if I am constantly repeating myself, or on something that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion like a player's fondness for Finland.
53 games? He has still played 156 games in FEL.
You didn't see this from the article?
"Thomas, the reigning Vezina Trophy winner as the NHL's best goalie, has certainly found his niche in North America. But he has not forgotten the place where his NHL dream first took root and was nurtured. So, he says he will cast at least a glance at what is going on in Helsinki in the coming days -- especially Florida's exhibition against Jokerit Wednesday. "
The thing is that you stated that other leagues has been as impactful for his career as his time in Finland. But Tim Thomas himself says that it was Finland that was the biggest reason and prepared the most for his NHL stardom.
You just releaved yourself as a poster. Without knowledge or any sources or proofs arguing against a guy who has actually followed Tim Thomas since 1998 when he was unknown for the hockey world outside of finland, who brought sources and actual interviews from that goalie. You're disagreeing with Tim Thomas aswell... I'm only arguing against that you said that FEL has been as impactful as the other leagues he has played in. Thats complitely false but gave actually full description about you as a poster.
I posted that FEL has had MAJOR impact in his career and i might call him even as a product of FEL.
You answered:
I brought some proofs and actual opinion of goalie himself and you are still arguing against without any knowledge or any fact. I give you simple tip. Don't try to act that you know about something that you never have even heard or have any knowledge. Just focus on the things what do you know or if not you have something to back up your strong words.
Sorry for the OT but i think that this case is closed.
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The Winter Soldier
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Fustrating when you continually mis-read and or mis-quote my responses, I clearly said he used the 54 games during the lock out year to enhance his profile and that it was part of his success in the NHL. The article you posted confirmed this.
This is like the Barkov discussion all over again, your tendency is to be overly sensitive to the point of being over defensive to do with anything related to Finnish Hockey.
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The Winter Soldier
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Misread or misquote?
I posted that FEL has had MAJOR impact in his career and i might call him even as a product of FEL.
You answered:
Read that last sentence. I agree that 53 games isn't biggest sample but you clearly say that any of the league he has played in has as much influence as FEL.
I just quoted you and linked some links that proved that you're wrong.
You also never answered me when i said that he actually played 156 games.
Well it's all debating and i feel good when i have chance to prove a arrogant poster like you wrong. For the Barkov debate it was very similar as this Tim Thomas debate. You posted nonsence and made big statements without knowledge and most of them were false and not true or stupid. of course i have to bring arrogant poster like you into real world and give you real facts.
Back in the topic. I think that Granlund will make impact in the NHL next season or he will play most of the season in the NHL adjusting on the small rink.
So the options for me are +50 or even +60points next year in the NHL or AHL. The key thing is that if he has been able to fix his game to be succesful in the NHL.
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