The Sabres GM and Front Office Thread

[Ace]

Even if KA moves to another title and Karmanos goes to GM, it's just a Maaco paint job on a beater. Same shit FO people, same shit culture.

It’s actually much, much worse.

The clock for pressure just resets to 0. Adams isn’t the GM, right? Gotta give Karmanos time. We’d be three to five years away from the next time a meaningful change could happen.

At least if Adams is still GM it could go badly enough, and enough contracts could run out, for new management. With this they can draft 8th for another three years before the next chance for change even opens.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It’s actually much, much worse.

The clock for pressure just resets to 0. Adams isn’t the GM, right? Gotta give Karmanos time. We’d be three to five years away from the next time a meaningful change could happen.

At least if Adams is still GM it could go badly enough, and enough contracts could run out, for new management. With this they can draft 8th for another three years before the next chance for change even opens.

Pretty much. It would age as well as a Maaco paint job.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Its unquestionably harder to win in the NFL than the NHL.

First off, its a roster of 53 not 23. Your coaching staff is massive. Position coaches. The Sabres have 8 coaches. The Bills have 28.

You can have a good QB and good coach and not win. Look at Cincinatti last year. A top 5 QB and a top 10 coach....failed miserably. You can't just be good at one thing. 14 out of 32 (used to be 12) teams make the playoffs vs 16 out of 32.

The only thing I'd argue is easier in the NFL is that you don't really have to worry about player costs because the massive TV contracts make every NFL team profitable before anyone steps in the door.

In the NHL, if you assembled an average team and a good coach, you would make the playoffs reasonably consistently. Nashville was the king of this, OK team, good coaching, playoffs most years.

I would much rather start a NHL team from scratch than a NFL team.

So I agree with you and disagree with you.

In the NFL, everything you said makes it difficult to win a Super Bowl. Making the playoffs is owner-GM-Head Coach-Franchise QB. I don't know a franchise which had those and struggled to make the playoffs. Cincinnati is an aberration.

Houston sucked in a lot of ways and still made it. Denver added a good rookie QB and made it. Aside from Cincinnati, I can't another franchise QB that sat home January.

Putting all the pieces together around those four is much harder to do than assemble a championship caliber hockey team, so agree.

 

[Beerz]

I don't even know how they could sell Karmanos or Forton as GM ... They have been a part of the failure.

No new voices.

You might as well keep Adams as GM. You're not buying any grace with a move like that.

Either Adams stays as GM or he is moved up with an outside GM is my guess.

 

[Ace]

So I agree with you and disagree with you.

In the NFL, everything you said makes it difficult to win a Super Bowl. Making the playoffs is owner-GM-Head Coach-Franchise QB. I don't know a franchise which had those and struggled to make the playoffs. Cincinnati is an aberration.

Houston sucked in a lot of ways and still made it. Denver added a good rookie QB and made it. Aside from Cincinnati, I can't another franchise QB that sat home January.

Putting all the pieces together around those four is much harder to do than assemble a championship caliber hockey team, so agree.

Cinci has a terrible owner and most predicted that they would screw up having an elite QB as soon as people needed to be paid.

 

[Ehran]

I don't even know how they could sell Karmanos or Forton as GM ... They have been a part of the failure.

No new voices.

You might as well keep Adams as GM. You're not buying any grace with a move like that.

Either Adams stays as GM or he is moved up with an outside GM is my guess.

I don't think Pegula would have any qualms about "selling" that sort of promotion. He doesn't seem to be too concerned with fan reactions.

 

[SundherDome]

I don't even know how they could sell Karmanos or Forton as GM ... They have been a part of the failure.

No new voices.

You might as well keep Adams as GM. You're not buying any grace with a move like that.

Either Adams stays as GM or he is moved up with an outside GM is my guess.

It would be a new voice and Karmanos seems to have done well with Rochester

 

[Archie Lee]

It would be a new voice and Karmanos seems to have done well with Rochester

Karmanos has been considered for other GM roles, both before and after he joined the Sabres. Other teams do these sort of promotions (GM to POHO and Asst. GM to GM). Vegas, Colorado, Washington, and Seattle, have recently done this. I have no idea if Karmanos would be good (none of us have any idea if any person who is likely to be interested, would be any good). But I have no reason to think he would not be his own man.

 

[jc17]

I don't even know how they could sell Karmanos or Forton as GM ... They have been a part of the failure.

No new voices.

You might as well keep Adams as GM. You're not buying any grace with a move like that.

Either Adams stays as GM or he is moved up with an outside GM is my guess.

For that reason I really can't see it happening. There's more to the story of kevyn moves to a new title.

The only scenario I see that making sense is if they wanted to bring in a former player who they think will garner respect, while retaining Adams and JK. Like if they wanted Chris pronger. He's not going to be GM, assistant GM is currently taken, but shuffle around and then insert the new person. Still don't think it's likely but that would be the scenario

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Is today the day ?

 

[Der Jaeger]

Cinci has a terrible owner and most predicted that they would screw up having an elite QB as soon as people needed to be paid.

I agree. But my point is that those four are all it takes in the NFL to make the playoffs. You can do it with 3. But if you get all four, it’s a lock.

I’m not sure if such a formula exists for the NHL.

Getting from playoffs to championship is another story. For the Sabres I’d just be ok with losing a first round series at this point.

 

[May Day 10]

I agree. But my point is that those four are all it takes in the NFL to make the playoffs. You can do it with 3. But if you get all four, it’s a lock.

I’m not sure if such a formula exists for the NHL.

Getting from playoffs to championship is another story. For the Sabres I’d just be ok with losing a first round series at this point.

NHL is way more intricate to sustain success than the NFL.

NFL you need a good QB and a semi-competent coach. You hit on enough picks and you can keep sustaining the roster enough with entry-level players. If everything is broke, it takes 2 years to cleanse the cap. You can find immediate starters throughout the NFL draft.

NHL, you have to scout teenagers for years around the globe in apples-to-oranges leagues. You have to draft 18 year olds and forecast where they will be as adults both physically and mentally, and as a hockey player. Then you have to develop them and choose the right path.
An NHL team is much more sensitive to chemistry than an NFL team. You need a stratified team with players who may look the similar but they have different strengths, personalities, and fill different roles.

The cap in the NHL is also very unforgiving. You also have a generally stronger player's association with guaranteed contracts and perks like trade protection.


*Im not saying it is easy to build an NFL team. But I think if you have a good coach and QB, it is hard to mess it up completely. NHL you can't just have 1 or 2 pieces as it takes a village. Coaches are also throw away at the bottom of the food chain.

 

[Der Jaeger]

NHL is way more intricate to sustain success than the NFL.

NFL you need a good QB and a semi-competent coach. You hit on enough picks and you can keep sustaining the roster enough with entry-level players. If everything is broke, it takes 2 years to cleanse the cap. You can find immediate starters throughout the NFL draft.

NHL, you have to scout teenagers for years around the globe in apples-to-oranges leagues. You have to draft 18 year olds and forecast where they will be as adults both physically and mentally, and as a hockey player. Then you have to develop them and choose the right path.
An NHL team is much more sensitive to chemistry than an NFL team. You need a stratified team with players who may look the similar but they have different strengths, personalities, and fill different roles.

The cap in the NHL is also very unforgiving. You also have a generally stronger player's association with guaranteed contracts and perks like trade protection.


*Im not saying it is easy to build an NFL team. But I think if you have a good coach and QB, it is hard to mess it up completely. NHL you can't just have 1 or 2 pieces as it takes a village. Coaches are also throw away at the bottom of the food chain.

I agree with most of this. For the NFL, you can basically lock in playoffs if you've got a good owner, GM, HC, and QB. I don't know if there is a similar formula in the NHL.

 

[TehDoak]

NHL is way more intricate to sustain success than the NFL.

NFL you need a good QB and a semi-competent coach. You hit on enough picks and you can keep sustaining the roster enough with entry-level players. If everything is broke, it takes 2 years to cleanse the cap. You can find immediate starters throughout the NFL draft.

NHL, you have to scout teenagers for years around the globe in apples-to-oranges leagues. You have to draft 18 year olds and forecast where they will be as adults both physically and mentally, and as a hockey player. Then you have to develop them and choose the right path.
An NHL team is much more sensitive to chemistry than an NFL team. You need a stratified team with players who may look the similar but they have different strengths, personalities, and fill different roles.

The cap in the NHL is also very unforgiving. You also have a generally stronger player's association with guaranteed contracts and perks like trade protection.


*Im not saying it is easy to build an NFL team. But I think if you have a good coach and QB, it is hard to mess it up completely. NHL you can't just have 1 or 2 pieces as it takes a village. Coaches are also throw away at the bottom of the food chain.

We have gotten EXTREMELY spoiled in Buffalo the last 6 years. We have competent management, coaching, and a top 3 QB. We have good players leave or age out, we've been able to replace them. It isn't easy to do what we have done.

You can have a good coach and a good QB and not have any success in the NFL. Success breeds success a bit, but getting to that point requires a quite a bit of luck.

In the NFL they come to the league older and more ready...but you only get 4 or 5 years with them.

In the NHL....you have exclusive "ownership" for 7 years. You have a dedicated developmental league you can coach players for years.

The cap is more rigid in the NHL but also you don't have single players eating up 25% of it.

Its easier to build a competitive team without high end talent in the NHL than it is the NFL. You can build a boring team that grinds out points. You won't win a championship, mind you, but you'll be in the playoff race most years.

 

[sabremike]

Cinci has a terrible owner and most predicted that they would screw up having an elite QB as soon as people needed to be paid.

As bad as Mike Brown is there's a big difference between him and Terry: His wealth IS the Bengals. He doesn't own some huge company that's the source of his wealth (this same thing is in fact what led to Model moving the Browns) whereas Terry does not have that excuse at all.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

How hard can it be trade this years first and NeXT year ++ for a really good top 6 center and rhd. Trade something again for a good forwards and add depth and instead drafting 2 new players in first round get to the playoffs . It should be easy.

 

[Dahlicious]

How hard can it be trade this years first and NeXT year ++ for a really good top 6 center and rhd. Trade something again for a good forwards and add depth and instead drafting 2 new players in first round get to the playoffs . It should be easy. I think i could do this first summer if i was the gm.

The vast, vast majority of those players have trade protection. The others are likely young and thus quite unavailable.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

Sabres overthinking , just go out and do it .

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

Given the fact that we are +3 days since the Pegulas and Adams met and he's still the GM, I think its safe to say that Adams is staying on.

There might be some staffing changes, but Adams will most likely still be leading the front office.

I think this should be stated, as clear as day:

The Pegulas do not care about the Sabres being a winning hockey team.

If you wanted to hand wave or explain away first few years post pandemic as the Sabres rebuilding, you could. If you wanted to blame the first year with Adams as GM on Eichel Injury, the pandemic, and Krueger, sure, you could.

If you wanted to blame the 2021-22 season on the fact we do a "culture change" and ONLY have "players who want to be here", fine.

But...in 2022-23, Adams, against all odds, found success. The team competed for a playoff spot while below the cap floor. Adams had proof of concept, right?

23-24.... The team spent JUST above the cap floor. They added two d-men in the summer and ran back the entire forward group. They regressed. He swapped Mittelstadt for Byram in season.

24-25: Adams himself claimed it was "no stone unturned" in adding players. He rebuilt the 4th line and added Mcleod and Zucker. And to his credit, his two large additions turned out well. His 4th line rebuild fell flat, however, and the team regressed in the standings despite strong seasons from Dahlin, Peterka, Thompson, and Tuch.

Two years post Adams 'breakout season' the team has spent more and done worse. No major injuries or bad luck to really excuse it. You can simply point to a poorly run front office to blame. And as it enters this summer, to make any significant moves, Adams acquired/signed players will have to be moved out because after signing the teams major RFAs, they will be up against the cap.

There is no excuse for this, an an organization. Adams has shown nothing to warrant a 6th year as GM. This is almost wholly his team and his contracts now. This is his second head coach he has hired. (3rd head coach overall). The peak of Adams success was built on an unsustainable special teams run that lasted almost 2 months. In one season, Adams got career years out of nearly every player on the roster...and still missed the playoffs. And he missed the playoffs because he didn't address the teams needs adequately in the offseason prior. In the years since, it's been normal ebbs and flows of development, which is common for NHL teams....and he hasn't been able to make necessary changes. He's gotten roster locked by unecessary extensions given to players before they've earned them.

By bringing Adams back....the Pegulas have accepted a comfortable front office over any sort of organizational standards. The Pegulas would rather have someone that will do what they ask unquestionably than have a winning team on the ice.

Think he gets 1 more season as i believe he promised they get in next season

 

[Jim Bob]

How hard can it be trade this years first and NeXT year ++ for a really good top 6 center and rhd. Trade something again for a good forwards and add depth and instead drafting 2 new players in first round get to the playoffs . It should be easy.

With the cap jumping up, I think the trade market is going to be less than stellar when compared to the recent past. Team's won't have quality guys that they can't afford to keep around.

And I don't know how many teams that are entering a rebuild have those kinds of guys that they will move for futures.

But, we shall see...

 

[TehDoak]

I agree with most of this. For the NFL, you can basically lock in playoffs if you've got a good owner, GM, HC, and QB. I don't know if there is a similar formula in the NHL.

There isn't a formula for either to be fair. Its hard to be successful in both leagues.

In the NHL, if you were starting 100% from scratch, I think you would try to focus on what is easier to get. Top end talent is hardest to get. As is top pair d-men and elite goalies. But middling is plentiful.

I would build out two 2nd lines and two third lines and 3 middle pairs of d-men and two average goalies. Just a very bland vanilla team. The AHL team would be similar vibe of a lot of middling vets. Get a good coach and work on building out culture and slowly work in young players. As your kids get better, you sell off some of your veterans for assets as they get displaced and you start having more defined lines and roles. Unless you have a true elite talent that is too good for the AHL, I'm keeping most kids in college/juniors/AHL as long as possible in year 1 and 2 of the rebuild.

Essentially:

Year 0: failed team, sell off, acculate picks/prospects
Year 1 of a rebuild: Focus on instilling culture and a modern system, defense first, good special teams
Year 2: Improve on year 1, goal of .500 or better (top 75%) (Top 24 teams)
Year 3: Goal is playoffs, acceptable is progression. (top 66%) (top 20 teams)
Year 4: Playoffs or new GM/Coach

Early, You want to mine those 28-32 year olds a bit on 1-2 year deals with higher AAV. Have them come in, get paid, and flip them to contenders at the deadline to build up assets. If its a truely good fit, you can keep them in mid term.

You essentially have a 4 year cycle to go from bottoming out until playoffs. Some can do it in 3. Depending on WHAT talent is there when you bottom out, some can turn it around in 1 or 2.

 

[Jim Bob]

So is there a gm change. ?

 

[Jacob582]

How hard can it be trade this years first and NeXT year ++ for a really good top 6 center and rhd. Trade something again for a good forwards and add depth and instead drafting 2 new players in first round get to the playoffs . It should be easy.

Very hard

 

[Der Jaeger]

We have gotten EXTREMELY spoiled in Buffalo the last 6 years. We have competent management, coaching, and a top 3 QB. We have good players leave or age out, we've been able to replace them. It isn't easy to do what we have done.

You can have a good coach and a good QB and not have any success in the NFL. Success breeds success a bit, but getting to that point requires a quite a bit of luck.

In the NFL they come to the league older and more ready...but you only get 4 or 5 years with them.

In the NHL....you have exclusive "ownership" for 7 years. You have a dedicated developmental league you can coach players for years.

The cap is more rigid in the NHL but also you don't have single players eating up 25% of it.

Its easier to build a competitive team without high end talent in the NHL than it is the NFL. You can build a boring team that grinds out points. You won't win a championship, mind you, but you'll be in the playoff race most years.

Did you mean to write that this way? Seems like it'd make more sense at "can't not" instead of "not."

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I’m guessing any changes will be announced by these cowards on a Saturday afternoon