The Runner's Thread

[waffledave]

Dave, are you in any form of a stretching routine whether it be before/after your run, or on a day you aren't running? Do you do any other form of strength training?

The solution to being able to run faster or further, isn't simply to just run more often, which a lot of people might not realize.

I stretch every day. I have severe flexibility issues due to a major growth spurt when I was a kid. Particularly in my hamstrings, which if you touch them feel like they are stretched to the max all the time. I can reach slightly below my knees when I'm standing... Not much, but I used to not be able to straighten my knees.

The pain I've having lately is on the side of my knee. It doesn't hurt to put weight on it, but it does have a sharp pain when I push off the knee. So I am fine walking slowly, but going up or down stairs and anything faster than a slow walk is painful and causes my hip to act up too.

I do 2 hamstring stretches, 1 groin, both quads and both sides of my hips every single day.

Besides that, no real other strength training aside from daily core work (3 x 20 pushups, 3 x 30 sit ups, 3 x 15 leg raises, 3 x 20 obliques)

 

[RayP]

I stretch every day. I have severe flexibility issues due to a major growth spurt when I was a kid. Particularly in my hamstrings, which if you touch them feel like they are stretched to the max all the time. I can reach slightly below my knees when I'm standing... Not much, but I used to not be able to straighten my knees.

The pain I've having lately is on the side of my knee. It doesn't hurt to put weight on it, but it does have a sharp pain when I push off the knee. So I am fine walking slowly, but going up or down stairs and anything faster than a slow walk is painful and causes my hip to act up too.

I do 2 hamstring stretches, 1 groin, both quads and both sides of my hips every single day.

Besides that, no real other strength training aside from daily core work (3 x 20 pushups, 3 x 30 sit ups, 3 x 15 leg raises, 3 x 20 obliques)

Sounds like you might have runner's knee or IT band syndrome.

Can you post the 2 hamstring stretches you do, or describe them? How long do you hold each stretch for when you do it?

I would consider adding supermans to your routine, as most people tend to have a weak lower back. When you raise your hands and legs off the ground, pause for a good second or two before going down.

 

[waffledave]

Sounds like you might have runner's knee or IT band syndrome.

Can you post the 2 hamstring stretches you do, or describe them? How long do you hold each stretch for when you do it?

I would consider adding supermans to your routine, as most people tend to have a weak lower back. When you raise your hands and legs off the ground, pause for a good second or two before going down.

After looking up IT band syndrome this is 100% what I have. I woke up today with no pain in my knee at all but a ton of stiffness in my hip and sharp pains that go into my knee in certain positions. It also makes sense as people who are prone to it are those with poor hamstring flexibility and weak glutes. I definitely have weak glutes, my ass is nonexistant. Like Hank Hill.

The hamstring stretches I do are sitting down, feet straight ahead (like a big L) and I try to touch my toes. The other is standing up, trying to touch my toes. Both I can only reach to just below my knee, with difficulty, and I hold them for 30 seconds each. It's pretty painful and by the end I am sweating quite a bit.

The supermans may be a good idea. I had 2 herniated discs in my lower back that I worked a lot of rehabbing. The running has helped a lot (well, more so the weight loss).

I feel crappy about not running but I weighed myself this morning and despite no runs this week I've lost 2.5 lbs since last Friday, so I'm glad about that.

 

[RayP]

After looking up IT band syndrome this is 100% what I have. I woke up today with no pain in my knee at all but a ton of stiffness in my hip and sharp pains that go into my knee in certain positions. It also makes sense as people who are prone to it are those with poor hamstring flexibility and weak glutes. I definitely have weak glutes, my ass is nonexistant. Like Hank Hill.

The hamstring stretches I do are sitting down, feet straight ahead (like a big L) and I try to touch my toes. The other is standing up, trying to touch my toes. Both I can only reach to just below my knee, with difficulty, and I hold them for 30 seconds each. It's pretty painful and by the end I am sweating quite a bit.

The supermans may be a good idea. I had 2 herniated discs in my lower back that I worked a lot of rehabbing. The running has helped a lot (well, more so the weight loss).

I feel crappy about not running but I weighed myself this morning and despite no runs this week I've lost 2.5 lbs since last Friday, so I'm glad about that.

Can you afford to buy a yoga strap (< $10) or even a foam roller ($20 or so)? That would go a long way to helping you shed that IT band syndrome. Really the only cure for it is rest and to stretch it out. I had it last winter, and it took me almost 2 months for it to go away where I literally couldn't run long distances. I probably could have gotten it back to 100% much quicker had I rested it, stretched it, and iced it more often than I did.

 

[RayP]

Bought a pair of Brooks Cascadia 9 today. Absurdly comfortable. Have a 1/2 marathon trail run 2 weeks from tomorrow, so hoping I can break them in by then.

 

[TheOtherScott]

any tips for preventing common injuries?

Cross-training. I just do prisoner squats and push-ups on my off-days and have found that my form stays more consistent despite fatigue.

 

[RayP]

Ran 8+ in the Cascadia's straight out of the box yesterday, on concrete/asphalt, and they were much more comfortable on the road than I was expecting. Have one minor blister, but given the distance for a first run in a new pair of shoes, am pretty happy with that.

 

[Virtanen18]

Long distance running is addictive, and it never is too late. Ran my first marathon at age 54 after 18 months of training. 4:20. Was pretty ticked at myself because I knew I could do much better. Ran my 2nd marathon 3 weeks later 3:53, elated that I broke 4hrs.

I used Asics Nimbus. Stopped running now but still like to read about others experiences.

Great stuff, buddy.

How do you all calculate how far you run? Is there a good app for this?

 

[Confucius]

Great stuff, buddy.
How do you all calculate how far you run? Is there a good app for this?

There are many sites that let you plot routes, Google maps, map my run, there is a great running site, runningahead.com.

I ended up buying a watch like device, Garmin forerunner. It's a fantastic gadget, strap it on you wrist, it uses GPS to indicate to you, how far you ran, length of time you ran, calculates the pace you ran at, will show elevation changes on your route, show you where you ran the slowest. You can key in your age, sex, height, weight and it will even calculate the calories you burned. You can then transfer the info to your computer via a USB cable, or even wirelessly now and keep a record. The great thing is it will show you all that info in real time as well.

Edit to add: the watch even stores a record of different routes you have run and will use a virtual runner so you can compare your present run to the last time or best time you had running that course.
If you're away on business, holidays or just in an unfamiliar place it has a feature to retrace your steps so you don't get lost.

Some models come with a heartbeat monitor. Some people like to train by keeping their heart rate at a specific level. Run too fast or too slow an alarm sounds.

Prices range from 60 to 400 in Canada, other countries may be less expensive. Seems we Canadians get gouged for a lot of things

 

[The Imp]

Good luck man. What kind of bike did you get?


I just recently added swimming to my routine, and am also shooting for an August 70.3, with the full thing in 2015 and hiring a coach for it. I've been hitting the bikes a lot in the gym lately, but need to get more outdoor biking done, especially on the streets. I just don't trust riding around all the drivers that I see text and drive out here, and I work super early so early mornings are out of the question.

I got a Cervélo P2. Already had some high-profile carbon wheels (it's not about the gear, but really, it's about the gear).

Had two rides of 65 km over Easter. Man alive, is it good to get back on the road.

Seems to me that the cadence is somewhat lower, but more varied, on the road than it is when I ride the bike in the gym. Plus, with the position I have on the tri-bike, it's obvious that

1) I need a new saddle
2) I use slightly different muscles on my hips when on the tri-bike
3) I really need a new saddle (ooow)

My aim is the Copenhagen Iron Man, in august 2015, for sure. I'm only just getting comfortable running long distances though. I had an OW workshop a couple of weekends ago that really boosted my confidence on the swimming. A wetsuit does wonders for one's swimming.

2015 will be about La Marmotte in July, and then the IM in August. 16 months and about 10 kg to go

 

[RayP]

I got a Cervélo P2. Already had some high-profile carbon wheels (it's not about the gear, but really, it's about the gear).

Had two rides of 65 km over Easter. Man alive, is it good to get back on the road.

Seems to me that the cadence is somewhat lower, but more varied, on the road than it is when I ride the bike in the gym. Plus, with the position I have on the tri-bike, it's obvious that

1) I need a new saddle
2) I use slightly different muscles on my hips when on the tri-bike
3) I really need a new saddle (ooow)

My aim is the Copenhagen Iron Man, in august 2015, for sure. I'm only just getting comfortable running long distances though. I had an OW workshop a couple of weekends ago that really boosted my confidence on the swimming. A wetsuit does wonders for one's swimming.

2015 will be about La Marmotte in July, and then the IM in August. 16 months and about 10 kg to go

Oddy enough I was looking at that model yesterday. Think I found one for $3000, for the frame, if I'm not mistaken.

I just recently started swimming and it's been kicking my ass, although I love that when I'm done I don't feel absolutely exhausted like after a good run or bike ride.

 

[The Imp]

3K is about right for the complete bike, maybe even a bit on the high side. It comes with [redacted] wheels as standard though. An upgrade there, plus an aero helmet, and you'll be set.

http://atlantacycling.com/product/cervelo-p2-ultegra-183564-1.htm

A bit saved then and there, I'd say? Plus, the 2013 model comes with the Ultegra rather than the 105 groupset, mostly. Maybe you looked at the P3? That's priced at 3k. I steered clear of the P3 because the geometry is a bit more aggressive, compared to the P2. I figured I'd lean to the comfortable side.

I distrust FSA components (The 2013 comes with an FSA 50/34 chainset) - I had the chainset changed to an Ultegra 53/39, but then I like to grind a low gear. Don't know if you have a preference there.

 

[Positive]

There are many sites that let you plot routes, Google maps, map my run, there is a great running site, runningahead.com.

I ended up buying a watch like device, Garmin forerunner. It's a fantastic gadget, strap it on you wrist, it uses GPS to indicate to you, how far you ran, length of time you ran, calculates the pace you ran at, will show elevation changes on your route, show you where you ran the slowest. You can key in your age, sex, height, weight and it will even calculate the calories you burned. You can then transfer the info to your computer via a USB cable, or even wirelessly now and keep a record. The great thing is it will show you all that info in real time as well.

Edit to add: the watch even stores a record of different routes you have run and will use a virtual runner so you can compare your present run to the last time or best time you had running that course.
If you're away on business, holidays or just in an unfamiliar place it has a feature to retrace your steps so you don't get lost.

Some models come with a heartbeat monitor. Some people like to train by keeping their heart rate at a specific level. Run too fast or too slow an alarm sounds.

Prices range from 60 to 400 in Canada, other countries may be less expensive. Seems we Canadians get gouged for a lot of things

Yep great devices. I use a Forerunner too. A lot of people say 'can't you just use your phone for all that?', and you kind of can, but I prefer to run carrying as little as possible and I feel the GPS watches are more accurate and simpler to use. Put it on, press a button to start, press again to stop. No menus to fiddle with, less worries, water resistant, no armbands, etc. I just sort of wear mine as a regular watch a lot of the time.

 

[RayP]

3K is about right for the complete bike, maybe even a bit on the high side. It comes with [redacted] wheels as standard though. An upgrade there, plus an aero helmet, and you'll be set.

http://atlantacycling.com/product/cervelo-p2-ultegra-183564-1.htm

A bit saved then and there, I'd say? Plus, the 2013 model comes with the Ultegra rather than the 105 groupset, mostly. Maybe you looked at the P3? That's priced at 3k. I steered clear of the P3 because the geometry is a bit more aggressive, compared to the P2. I figured I'd lean to the comfortable side.

I distrust FSA components (The 2013 comes with an FSA 50/34 chainset) - I had the chainset changed to an Ultegra 53/39, but then I like to grind a low gear. Don't know if you have a preference there.

I don't think I looked into the one in the link, but what I meant was it would run me close to 3K after the frame, helmet, and shoes. I'll be starting from scratch when it comes to buying a "real" bike when I do make the purchase.

This is the other one I was looking at, that is an even $2000. Not sure the difference between it and the one you posted, as I don't know a ton on bikes.

http://atlantacycling.com/product/cervelo-p2-105-200064-1.htm

 

[RayP]

Yep great devices. I use a Forerunner too. A lot of people say 'can't you just use your phone for all that?', and you kind of can, but I prefer to run carrying as little as possible and I feel the GPS watches are more accurate and simpler to use. Put it on, press a button to start, press again to stop. No menus to fiddle with, less worries, water resistant, no armbands, etc. I just sort of wear mine as a regular watch a lot of the time.

Pardon me for asking if you already mentioned it, but which watch do you use? I have the tomtom tri watch, and I pretty much wear it daily now. Absolutely love it, and it's one of the few that I can actually wear for quite a while before needing to recharge the battery. I wanted the Garmin one, but it was like double what the tomtom one was and the reviews for the Garmin vs tomtom weren't overwhelmingly in favor towards Garmin to justify the extra cost, for my budget.

 

[The Imp]

The difference lies in the gears. The 105 group is a reasonable combination of shift quality, weight, and price for the wear-and-tear parts.

Ultegra is lighter, shifts better, and more expensive. It's all down to budget, really.

Basically Shimano components rank as follows (top being more expensive, lighter, better quality):

Dura Ace
Ultegra
105
Tiagra
Sora
2300 / Claris

They're all compatible - you'll notice a Tiagra casette and Dura Ace shifters on the spec sheet. Don't go below 105, is the general rule.

Ultegra and Dura Ace also come in Di2 versions - the shifters and derailleurs are electronic in those, which is slightly heavier, but damn wonderful to ride. My road bike has Ultegra Di2, and I'm never going mechanical again, in road bikes.

 

[RayP]

Yeah, that's all like reading Chinese to me.

I'm looking for something reasonably priced, hopefully right around $3000 for the frame, pedals, helmet, and maybe a suit.

FWIW, I'm not looking to spend extra money to shave seconds off my time. I'm just looking for a bike that I can comfortably start and finish with.

Have a suggestion on where to read up on the stuff to learn more on it? I've tried before, but every time I look into I just have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Positive]

Pardon me for asking if you already mentioned it, but which watch do you use? I have the tomtom tri watch, and I pretty much wear it daily now. Absolutely love it, and it's one of the few that I can actually wear for quite a while before needing to recharge the battery. I wanted the Garmin one, but it was like double what the tomtom one was and the reviews for the Garmin vs tomtom weren't overwhelmingly in favor towards Garmin to justify the extra cost, for my budget.

I use a Garmin 610 (the special edition which is a bit of and odd white and blue combo, which I like actually):

I've heard decent things about the Tom Toms but stuck with Garmin because my last watch was a Garmin (a 205). Not so much out of any feelings of loyalty/superiority, but just because I was familiar with their functionality and they use the same software. Didn't want to lose my logs/switch to a new one etc. Like most of the newer running watches the batteries last weeks in 'watch mode' without needing a recharge.

It's only waterproofed to IPX7 though so it's not good for swimming, you'd need something else.

 

[RayP]

I use a Garmin 610 (the special edition which is a bit of and odd white and blue combo, which I like actually):

I've heard decent things about the Tom Toms but stuck with Garmin because my last watch was a Garmin (a 205). Not so much out of any feelings of loyalty/superiority, but just because I was familiar with their functionality and they use the same software. Didn't want to lose my logs/switch to a new one etc. Like most of the newer running watches the batteries last weeks in 'watch mode' without needing a recharge.

Any complaints about it?

Only complaint I have with the tomtom, which I had no idea prior to purchasing... is that I can not upload any activities that I do if I don't have the watch, which is rather annoying if I don't have it and sneak out for a run or something. I really like to look at my weekly/monthly totals... and sometimes I have to try and remember a couple things that I didn't have my watch for, or that the battery died, etc.

When it does crap out, I'll probably upgrade to a Garmin since I'm taking this stuff much more seriously... As opposed to when I bought the tomtom I wasn't sure just how deep into it I was going to get.

 

[Positive]

Any complaints about it?

Only complaint I have with the tomtom, which I had no idea prior to purchasing... is that I can not upload any activities that I do if I don't have the watch, which is rather annoying if I don't have it and sneak out for a run or something. I really like to look at my weekly/monthly totals... and sometimes I have to try and remember a couple things that I didn't have my watch for, or that the battery died, etc.

When it does crap out, I'll probably upgrade to a Garmin since I'm taking this stuff much more seriously... As opposed to when I bought the tomtom I wasn't sure just how deep into it I was going to get.

I believe you can just 'add' an activity to your logs, like you said...if you somehow missed taking it along.

Not much complaint. I wish it was a little slimmer and lighter, but the next generation has taken care of that.

Also...not ATM5 or better water-resistant. So no taking it for swimming. Not a great multisport watch. If you were into Triathlons, I go to the 620 or 910XT (more $$$). I have IronMan triathlete training partners that swear by the 910XT.

 

[ORLY]

What would you guys consider: awesome-above average-average-below average mile times. Looking to get into the above average category. Male- aged 20-25.

 

[RayP]

I believe you can just 'add' an activity to your logs, like you said...if you somehow missed taking it along.

Not much complaint. I wish it was a little slimmer and lighter, but the next generation has taken care of that.

Also...not ATM5 or better water-resistant. So no taking it for swimming. Not a great multisport watch. If you were into Triathlons, I go to the 620 or 910XT (more $$$). I have IronMan triathlete training partners that swear by the 910XT.

Yeah, when my tomtom multi watch goes the 910XT will be the next I get, but no reason or need to make that purchase now. Although I really want to.

If my tomtom is still going strong by the time I start my full Ironman training, then I'll probably just gift it to someone and then make that purchase, which is still a a year or so away.

What would you guys consider: awesome-above average-average-below average mile times. Looking to get into the above average category. Male- aged 20-25.

I wouldn't get too worried about others, and focus on yourself. Keep track of your pace, and if your primary goal is increasing distance - increase your distance by 10-15% per week. If your goal is pace, well that's a bit more difficult... but just track it, and makes you're seeing gains.

But honestly, it really depends who you're hanging out with and how serious of runners they are to answer that question. I have some friends from my run club that run sub-7 miles and my 7:30-8:00 minute miles are pathetic compared to them. I have another run club that I'm the lead at, and an 8:00 minute mile can be difficult for them, and is considered great.

See what I'm saying?

 

[ORLY]

But honestly, it really depends who you're hanging out with and how serious of runners they are to answer that question. I have some friends from my run club that run sub-7 miles and my 7:30-8:00 minute miles are pathetic compared to them. I have another run club that I'm the lead at, and an 8:00 minute mile can be difficult for them, and is considered great.

See what I'm saying?

Yeah, that makes sense. I like running alone, and it's something I'm looking to get into more. I need to learn how to manage a run to get better times. I have like 5 "gears" if you will, it's just I need to manage them better I suppose haha.

 

[Positive]

What would you guys consider: awesome-above average-average-below average mile times. Looking to get into the above average category. Male- aged 20-25.

For like a one-mile time trial? All-out? Well yup it's hard to say. For me I think 6 or 7 minute mile is good. Not like, championship good or Olympics good or anything, but if you can do a 6-minute mile at any age that's damn respectable. My best 1-mile time trial is 6:17, which isn't too shabby for a 42-year-old. Young whipper-snapper like you should be able to blow me away. Elite/world-class runners are around or just below the 4-minute mark.

Note - treadmill times do not count!

 

[RayP]

Yeah, that makes sense. I like running alone, and it's something I'm looking to get into more. I need to learn how to manage a run to get better times. I have like 5 "gears" if you will, it's just I need to manage them better I suppose haha.

Have you tried running with a friend or in a small group?

I get what you're saying, although I usually have 3 mental gears that I keep in mind. I have a green zone where I know I'm not pushing myself hard enough, a yellow zone which is a good steady pace, and a red zone that is a pace that I'm really pushing it with and is not sustainable.

I try to start in that green zone for the first mile or so while I get warmed up. Then I try and stay in that yellow zone while I coast. If I come across a hill, well I've always liked to attack hills, so I rev it up into that red zone while going really aggressive at that hill, but when it levels off I get back into the green for a 1/4 mile or so, before getting back into the yellow.


If any of that made sense.