The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Satanphonehome]

Our top 6/9 is the cause of some consternation among fans. There is a large segment of fans strongly criticizing Adams for not going out and replacing Skinner.

My bigger concern is our defense -- specifically the 2nd pair right side. We know Dahlin is our rock on the 1st pair. Clifton or Jokiharju are fine on the 3rd pair....however, neither really are strong enough to play 2nd pair minutes and neither can play the left side AT ALL. That said, our 4 most talented D (Dahlin, Power, Byram, Samuelsson) can all play the right to varying degrees of success (Dahlin prefers it). So theoretically, we could play a top 4 of all LHDs......which then would force either Dennis Gilbert (never been a full time NHLer) or Ryan Johnson (talented rookie) into the 3rd pair LHD while Clifton and Jokiharju battle it out for playing time. Personally, my major criticism of Adams' offseason is his not locking down that 2nd pair RHD spot.

So this generally comes out as a variation of “the pieces don’t fit”
But the subtext is always based on having a clear R/L 1/2/3 pairing rotational template.

What if the pairs are put in a constant blender based on opponent an game situation?

Or would it really be untenable if, say Byram and Samuelson were a 2nd pair and either Power or Dahlin was on the ice every shift that pair wasn’t? Sometimes both?

It just seems to me there’s a real lack of faith in the versatility of the players and in Lindy’s ability to deploy them.

 

[DJN21]

No!

Right left
Right left
Right left

Unless your best dman does it different then its okay. But then back to the same.

The defense is what it is unless ryjo pulls down an opening night spot and even then it'll be out of whack in terms of handedness. They are professional athletes getting paid to figure it out. Let them do it. The best pairs will shake out in the coming month.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I don't think team age is the problem on why they aren't making the playoffs or the reason they can't compete.

It's true, age gains experience but mobility, agility and skill get worse with age especially in highly competitive sports.

 

[TageGod]

I don't think team age is the problem on why they aren't making the playoffs or the reason they can't compete.

It's true, age gains experience but mobility, agility and skill get worse with age especially in highly competitive sports.

Average core of 23 and Average core of 25 is actually pretty significant. Those 23–27-year-olds in their prime are who lead your team. Outside of Thompson and Tuch, our core is really young. Too much inconsistency from young players. Or maybe in the Sabres case, not seasoned enough to deal with shitty coaching.

 

[joshjull]

I mean it's Erik Johnson 2.0 ? He had a few ok games and then nose dived.

It doesn’t t sound like that based on his agents comments. Sounds like they want him as a 7/8 depth dman and a mentor for their young defense. But they’re worried about his “pedigree” making him balk at the idea of being a “part time player”.

Johnson was brought in to be part of the starting 6 and was the anchor on the PK. He led the dmen in PK ice time.

He may be as shot as Johnson was but it doesn’t sound like he’d be asked to do nearly as much.

 

[joshjull]

Average core of 23 and Average core of 25 is actually pretty significant. Those 23–27-year-olds in their prime are who lead your team.

We have 12 players that fall in 23-27 age range. They run the gamut from some of our best players to depth players. Some in their prime, some close to breaking out and some are just what they are.

Forwards -> Tage (26), Cozens (23), McLeod (24), Greenway (27), Malenstyn (26), and Krebs (23)

Dmen -> Dahlin (24), Sammy (24), Joker (25), Byram (23) and Bryson (26)

Goalie -> UPL (25)

Outside of Thompson and Tuch, our core is really young. Too much inconsistency from young players. Or maybe in the Sabres case, not seasoned enough to deal with shitty coaching.

What makes a player more “ seasoned”? Their age or their experience?

Because Tage has only 3 seasons as a NHL center. Whereas Dahlin has 6 as a NHL dman.

I mean even at center Coznes is right there with him with 3 years experience. McLeod also has 3 years with some that on the wing. But McLeod also has the experience of 3 successful playoff races and 56 playoff games. Something very few players on this roster have.

I’m not taking a shot at Tage. But I think youre overplaying his status, while underplaying others.

 

[Jim Bob]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1832811136518934786

 

[TageGod]

We have 12 players that fall in 23-27 age range. They run the gamut from some of our best players to depth players. Some in their prime, some close to breaking out and some are just what they are.

Forwards -> Tage (26), Cozens (23), McLeod (24), Greenway (27), Malenstyn (26), and Krebs (23)

Dmen -> Dahlin (24), Sammy (24), Joker (25), Byram (23) and Bryson (26)

Goalie -> UPL (25)


What makes a player more “ seasoned”? Their age or their experience?

Because Tage has only 3 seasons as a NHL center. Whereas Dahlin has 6 as a NHL dman.

I mean even at center Coznes is right there with him with 3 years experience. McLeod also has 3 years with some that on the wing. But McLeod also has the experience of 3 successful playoff races and 56 playoff games. Something very few players on this roster have.

I’m not taking a shot at Tage. But I think youre overplaying his status, while underplaying others.

Was simply stating age as a number. Older is just more mature and more consistent, of course there are some exceptions. More time to settle in find your game find your eating habits, practice habits, summer habits. Players learn those over years. What is Cozens game look like in his prime? We don't fully know. Same with Benson and Quinn and Peterka. Most of our core still has question marks.

 

[Dingo44]

Was simply stating age as a number. Older is just more mature and more consistent, of course there are some exceptions. More time to settle in find your game find your eating habits, practice habits, summer habits. Players learn those over years. What is Cozens game look like in his prime? We don't fully know. Same with Benson and Quinn and Peterka. Most of our core still has question marks.

It's good they're young though because we're just starting to enter our competition phase. Any older and some would age out just as we're legit Stanley Cup contenders.

 

[Selanne00008]

We have 12 players that fall in 23-27 age range. They run the gamut from some of our best players to depth players. Some in their prime, some close to breaking out and some are just what they are.

Forwards -> Tage (26), Cozens (23), McLeod (24), Greenway (27), Malenstyn (26), and Krebs (23)

Dmen -> Dahlin (24), Sammy (24), Joker (25), Byram (23) and Bryson (26)

Goalie -> UPL (25)


What makes a player more “ seasoned”? Their age or their experience?

Because Tage has only 3 seasons as a NHL center. Whereas Dahlin has 6 as a NHL dman.

I mean even at center Coznes is right there with him with 3 years experience. McLeod also has 3 years with some that on the wing. But McLeod also has the experience of 3 successful playoff races and 56 playoff games. Something very few players on this roster have.

I’m not taking a shot at Tage. But I think youre overplaying his status, while underplaying others.

I still can't believe Dahlin is only 24 and won't turn 25 until this upcoming season is over.

 

[TageGod]

It's good they're young though because we're just starting to enter our competition phase. Any older and some would age out just as we're legit Stanley Cup contenders.

Thats partially why the past few years have been such a roller coaster.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Was simply stating age as a number. Older is just more mature and more consistent, of course there are some exceptions. More time to settle in find your game find your eating habits, practice habits, summer habits. Players learn those over years. What is Cozens game look like in his prime? We don't fully know. Same with Benson and Quinn and Peterka. Most of our core still has question marks.

Players enter their prime way earlier than in the 90s now. I believe I read a year or so ago that a player entering his prime now is around the age of 24 which means so many of our core are entering their prime years.

I really don't think age has anything to do with the Sabres lack of being competitive at least to the perspective you and others are making age as the fault out to be.

 

[Fearnot]

Sabres season preview.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I still can't believe Dahlin is only 24 and won't turn 25 until this upcoming season is over.

If he has a big season and we make the playoffs he will be the best defenseman in Sabres history before he’s even off his parent’s insurance plan!

 

[TageGod]

Players enter their prime way earlier than in the 90s now. I believe I read a year or so ago that a player entering his prime now is around the age of 24 which means so many of our core are entering their prime years.

I really don't think age has anything to do with the Sabres lack of being competitive at least to the perspective you and others are making age as the fault out to be.

I think with anything experience matters. A lot of Sabres are definitely entering their prime.

 

[Jim Bob]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5707840/2024/09/10/nhl-rebuild-teams-ranking/

7. Buffalo Sabres​

Buffalo has been a sexy pick to take a big step forward for several years now. The Sabres have drafted high for a long time and have built up an envious group of young players. They have two No. 1 blueliners in Rasmus Dahlin and Owen Power and a deep, talented group of forwards. They could become a contender, but at some point, if they can’t progress into a consistent playoff team, their young team will just look like previous iterations of Sabres rebuilds.

They are not wrong.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5707840/2024/09/10/nhl-rebuild-teams-ranking/

They are not wrong.

No they are not

 

[Matt Ress]

We're probably going to stay young for a while with several kids that have a real good shot at being NHL players in the next few years.

Adams seems most interested in acquiring youngish players for the long haul. I really think he's just not interested in going all in on a diminishing asset until the team proves that it's worth it to dwindle their asset pile ie. be good. I tend to agree.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

We're probably going to stay young for a while with several kids that have a real good shot at being NHL players in the next few years.

Adams seems most interested in acquiring youngish players for the long haul. I really think he's just not interested in going all in on a diminishing asset until the team proves that it's worth it to dwindle their asset pile ie. be good. I tend to agree.

The roster if full of unestablished high potential players. It is a risk that not all will work out

I would argue that Tuch is the only established player in top 6 with cozens, peterska Quinn, Tage and benson not established. 3rd and 4th lines more established.

Goalies not established yet

Dahlin is established but not the remainder of the top 4 defence.

Really hanging a lot on the continued development of the guys. If they do, Sabres are a team to reckon with for years to come.

Please be right Kevin

 

[Selanne00008]

The roster if full of unestablished high potential players. It is a risk that not all will work out

I would argue that Tuch is the only established player in top 6 with cozens, peterska Quinn, Tage and benson not established. 3rd and 4th lines more established.

Goalies not established yet

Dahlin is established but not the remainder of the top 4 defence.

Really hanging a lot on the continued development of the guys. If they do, Sabres are a team to reckon with for years to come.

Please be right Kevin

Pretty much agree. Although I'd say at this point TT is established. We should have answers on a half a dozen well before the end of this season though.

 

[DJN21]

The roster if full of unestablished high potential players. It is a risk that not all will work out

I would argue that Tuch is the only established player in top 6 with cozens, peterska Quinn, Tage and benson not established. 3rd and 4th lines more established.

Goalies not established yet

Dahlin is established but not the remainder of the top 4 defence.

Really hanging a lot on the continued development of the guys. If they do, Sabres are a team to reckon with for years to come.

Please be right Kevin

I'd argue no one on the new 4th line aside from Lafferty is "established". One is a guy with one good year in his late 20's under his belt and the other was being scratched a bit. I like both adds don't get me wrong but i'm not sure saying they are more established than tage or peterka or quinn....and you likely forgot Zucker is completely true. Either way your point is relatively accurate.

 

[BFLO]

The roster if full of unestablished high potential players. It is a risk that not all will work out

I would argue that Tuch is the only established player in top 6 with cozens, peterska Quinn, Tage and benson not established. 3rd and 4th lines more established.

Goalies not established yet

Dahlin is established but not the remainder of the top 4 defence.

Really hanging a lot on the continued development of the guys. If they do, Sabres are a team to reckon with for years to come.

Please be right Kevin

Pretty much agree. Although I'd say at this point TT is established. We should have answers on a half a dozen well before the end of this season though.

Yeah. Tage has definitely established himself as a top 6er. What remains to be seen is whether he's more of a 30/30 guy or 47/47. There's a lot of room in between as well.

 

[TehDoak]

The roster if full of unestablished high potential players. It is a risk that not all will work out

I would argue that Tuch is the only established player in top 6 with cozens, peterska Quinn, Tage and benson not established. 3rd and 4th lines more established.

Tage has more 60+ pt seasons than Tuch. Same amount of 50+ pt seasons.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/t/thompta01.html

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/t/tuchal01.html

The question is, are these both top line forwards. I think they are both top 6 forwards.

I'm curious to see Cozens deployments and usage.

I know Tage will likely get the Jack Hughes super high ozone start (70%+) that Lindy used.

The question is, will Cozens get the Hischer-esque 50% splits.

Goalies not established yet

I am more worried about UPL staying healthy.

He's always been a talented goalie, it was about him being consistent. It wouldn't be shocking if he regressed a bit this year though. Pretty typical when young players get their first big contract.

Dahlin is established but not the remainder of the top 4 defence.

I didn't love the Byram deal, but he's been a top 4 d on a cup winner. At the very least I'd say he's a good 2nd pair guy.

I think we have 3 top 4 D-men (Dahlin, Power, and Byram), the question is, who plays with Dahlin and who does the other play with on the 2nd pair.

Really hanging a lot on the continued development of the guys. If they do, Sabres are a team to reckon with for years to come.

Please be right Kevin

I mean, for us to succeed this year, we'll need:

- The big guys from 2022-23 to return to form (Dahlin/Cozens/Tuch/Tage)
- League average goaltending between UPL/Reimer/Levi
- Growth from Power/Quinn/Peterka/Benson/Byram
- Improvement on Special teams.
- Enough offense from the bottom 6.

You get all of those, that's likely a playoff team.

I think you will probably get 2/5 of those, maybe 3/5. 2/5 is status quo, 3/5 is bubble team status.

 

[Club]

A tad optimistic about the season

 

[TageGod]

Tage has more 60+ pt seasons than Tuch. Same amount of 50+ pt seasons.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/t/thompta01.html

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/t/tuchal01.html

The question is, are these both top line forwards. I think they are both top 6 forwards.

I'm curious to see Cozens deployments and usage.

I know Tage will likely get the Jack Hughes super high ozone start (70%+) that Lindy used.

The question is, will Cozens get the Hischer-esque 50% splits.




I am more worried about UPL staying healthy.

He's always been a talented goalie, it was about him being consistent. It wouldn't be shocking if he regressed a bit this year though. Pretty typical when young players get their first big contract.



I didn't love the Byram deal, but he's been a top 4 d on a cup winner. At the very least I'd say he's a good 2nd pair guy.

I think we have 3 top 4 D-men (Dahlin, Power, and Byram), the question is, who plays with Dahlin and who does the other play with on the 2nd pair.




I mean, for us to succeed this year, we'll need:

- The big guys from 2022-23 to return to form (Dahlin/Cozens/Tuch/Tage)
- League average goaltending between UPL/Reimer/Levi
- Growth from Power/Quinn/Peterka/Benson/Byram
- Improvement on Special teams.
- Enough offense from the bottom 6.

You get all of those, that's likely a playoff team.

I think you will probably get 2/5 of those, maybe 3/5. 2/5 is status quo, 3/5 is bubble team status.

PP cant be worse. Positive regression for top players is likely. Growth from young players is likely. UPL is an above average goalie. We have a solid bottom 6 now....we AT LEAST are getting 3.