The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Mattilaus]

Toronto construction is also bad. I lived near the intersection of spadina and dupont for about 5 years. That intersection was legitimately under construction the entire time we lived there. Not an exaggeration. It was already under construction when we moved there and It still wasn't finished when we moved away.

 

[Matt Ress]

Am I in the minority thinking we see Kulich, Wahlberg and probably Rosen in Buffalo before Helenius?

Maybe I'm misreading the sentiment.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Cool days like yesterday and today have me thinking about the puck dropping soon.

 

[HOOats]

Cool days like yesterday and today have me thinking about the puck dropping soon.

Same. I'm massively excited for this season. We're flying under the radar and it's perfect. Let other teams get the hype.

The Sabres could be relatively unrecognizable between swapping Granato for Ruff, the targeted acquisitions, and a roster so young that the majority of players could/should have leveled up over the summer.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

You got the 2nd on the wrong side. It's actually Laine and a 2nd for the scrub prospect.

Yes, it's a contract dump. Laine could have been waived and no one would have touched him

 

[TageGod]

Am I in the minority thinking we see Kulich, Wahlberg and probably Rosen in Buffalo before Helenius?

Maybe I'm misreading the sentiment.

You are from the way I hear people talk. You should be the majority though. At least for Kulich and Rosen.

 

[Ehran]

Cool days like yesterday and today have me thinking about the puck dropping soon.

 

[joshjull]

For me, when you break it down like that, and you look at our scoring forwards, and palymakers, they don't do anything for me at all. They would rank bottom 5 in the league for sure. Tage as your top scoring center is bottom 5. Cozens as your two way is bottom 5. Some teams have 2 scoring centers that are both better than either of our guys.

Playmaking wings and power wings are also meh. Tuch was in the top 100 players points scored ranking 94th. Yes Tage was injured but wouldn't have been much higher. Most teams have 3 players that outproduced our top scorer.

This isnt to say I don't like the gel or these guys in general. I like almost all of em. But, we are clearly missing one high end piece. There's nobody close to a top 20 player (Kuch, Pasta, McJesus, Pattersson, MacK, Reinhart, etc, etc). I also realize I am looking at stats here, but still. It's really the overarching point that we are simply lacking, somehow, after all these years of finishing with a top 10 draft pick.

Really?

Tage has been a center for 3 seasons. Tage emerged in those first two seasons as an elite goal scoring center. The first two he was 7th+3rd in overall goals and 20th+8th in overall points among centers. He was also 4th + 5th respectively in 5v5 goals in those seasons as well.

This past season he had a big drop off due to a broken hand. He missed time, played with a cast and then just played through it healing for the bulk of the season. I think it’s fair to assume expectations for a healthy Tage should fall somewhere between those first two seasons. Not the one he played through a broken hand.

Cozens is harder to figure. He had a huge year two seasons ago and a horrific season last year. Neither season saw him used as a two way or matchup center. Which is his pedigree as a player. But Ruff loves the idea of him as a two way center. So are we going to see him in direct matchups? Or at least getting a decent amount of time against top centers? Or specific defensive situations? If so, how does he adapt to playing a way that suits him better?

I expect Cozens will play better overall as a player with this new focus. But I’m not sure what that will look production-wise. It should certainly be better than last season but not match two years ago.


The way you’re framing Tuch’s production needs better context. You listing him as 95th in overall points among all players (Obviously includes dmen) and implying it’s bad. There are 192 top 6 forward spots in the NHL and 96 top line spots. In a down year, he was tied for 35th among forwards in 5v5 points and 87th in overall points. Thats pretty good considering how last season went and how shitty our PP was.

 

[Djp]

Am I in the minority thinking we see Kulich, Wahlberg and probably Rosen in Buffalo before Helenius?

Maybe I'm misreading the sentiment.

I dont expect Helenius to be in buffalo next year. I c as n ser it fir 25/26. A big factor is if he plays in Rochester in 24/25.

Same with wahlberg. Need time in rochester first. Maybe see him in 25/26

I think Rosen and Kulich are yhr primary F call ups this season

 

[Jim Bob]

I didn’t have that take or even mentioned it. So why bring it up in response to my post unless you felt I was saying that? You clearly felt thats what my “pain in the ass” comment about Laine’s deal meant.

The funny thing is you kinda nailed what I was thinking when I posted that in your original post.

“If they had Laine, they might have to choose between Samuelsson or Clifton, for instance. And they could replace a guy like Zucker with a guy on an ELC from Rochester. Which might not be a bad thing. And they might need to bridge one or two of Quinn, Peterka, and Byram which may not be a bad idea.”

Basically it would be a pain in the ass to have to deal with these things. There are players worth doing this for (and more) to add/keep them on your roster. Laine with that contract ain’t one of them.

I was replying to this specific part of your previous post:

That second season (14.14mil) would be a pain in the ass for our attempts to re-sign Quinn, Peterka and Byram.

I feel like that is overstating it. Yes, it would make the roster moves for next season more challenging. But, I do not believe that it is such a huge issue as to not consider adding a top 6 forward.

I did not like Laine for a whole host of reasons. But, the 2025-26 cap was not really one of them.

Good GMs who have prioritized building a roster to win now have to deal with future cap situations regularly in the NHL. Bad GMs choose not to add talent now because of concerns for the cap in future years when they are in "Win Now" mode.

Adams said they are in "Win Now" mode and yet he made moves that seemed to be overly concerned with future cap years. I think that may yet again come back to bite him in the rear end.

 

[Matt Ress]

I dont expect Helenius to be in buffalo next year. I c as n ser it fir 25/26. A big factor is if he plays in Rochester in 24/25.

Same with wahlberg. Need time in rochester first. Maybe see him in 25/26

I think Rosen and Kulich are yhr primary F call ups this season

Yeah that seems pretty clear to me. I wouldn't count on HellOnIce leapfrogging them but it would be a great problem to have.

 

[Chainshot]

Cool days like yesterday and today have me thinking about the puck dropping soon.

What is this cool you speak of?

This weather update brought to you by The Organization to Interrupt the Construction Talk.

 

[toddkaz]

I dont expect Helenius to be in buffalo next year. I c as n ser it fir 25/26. A big factor is if he plays in Rochester in 24/25.

Same with wahlberg. Need time in rochester first. Maybe see him in 25/26

I think Rosen and Kulich are yhr primary F call ups this season

Didn't he already say he will be in Rochester this year?

Als Olli Jokinen his agent? I saw him say he will play in the NHL this coming season.

 

[Selanne00008]

Tage is all of sudden a bottom 5 C(27+ league wide)? Two years ago he put up 47/47 and that was with him also injured near the end of the season no way there are that many centers better than huim.

Ok ok, I went overboard. He's middle of the pack, broad range between 10-20.

 

[Jim Bob]

Didn't he already say he will be in Rochester this year?

Als Olli Jokinen his agent? I saw him say he will play in the NHL this coming season.

Jokinen was his club coach with Jukurit in Liiga last season. He had a quote that Helenius was NHL ready and could make the Sabres this year. To me, it was just a coach hyping up his guy and not any sort of inside info.

And he will be playing in North America this season. Most likely in Rochester.

 

[truthbluth]

I continue to be just mystified by this off-season.

None of the moves individually have been bad, but the net is
Skinner and a 4th line out (and probably Krebs as healthy scratch)
Zucker, McCleod and a 4th line in
Nothing on D
It's basically a wash.

When you look at it, if this is it, you are counting on Lindy to bring in 5-10 wins by coaching alone.

I just don't get it. These aren't the moves of a desperate GM.

 

[Gras]

View attachment 902324

Almost cool enough to start walking to the gym again

 

[Jim Bob]

I continue to be just mystified by this off-season.

None of the moves individually have been bad, but the net is
Skinner and a 4th line out (and probably Krebs as healthy scratch)
Zucker, McCleod and a 4th line in
Nothing on D
It's basically a wash.

When you look at it, if this is it, you are counting on Lindy to bring in 5-10 wins by coaching alone.

I just don't get it. These aren't the moves of a desperate GM.

I think that the media and fans that have said that Adams will lose his job if the Sabres fail to make the playoffs in 2024-25 were overstating the situation.

I think Pegula is making decisions about whether he likes the vibes and how things are working internally more than merely external results.

Murray was let go not because of the team's W/L record, but because of internal drama.

Botterill was let go not because of the team's W/L record, but because he pushed back on laying staff off and the Pegulas "not feeling heard."

As long as Adams is keeping the organization drama free and the Pegulas are kept in the loop, I think his job is safe even if the fans and media think he should be gone.

 

[thewookie1]

I continue to be just mystified by this off-season.

None of the moves individually have been bad, but the net is
Skinner and a 4th line out (and probably Krebs as healthy scratch)
Zucker, McCleod and a 4th line in
Nothing on D
It's basically a wash.

When you look at it, if this is it, you are counting on Lindy to bring in 5-10 wins by coaching alone.

I just don't get it. These aren't the moves of a desperate GM.

Desperation rarely works in your favor so I wouldn't exactly say its a bad thing when posed in such a way

 

[Mattilaus]

Desperation rarely works in your favor so I wouldn't exactly say its a bad thing when posed in such a way

I feel like this club could use a little desperation. At all levels.

 

[Irie]

A $2M jump in the cap is on the low side of what many expect for next season. $92M is the projection that I see used most often.

View attachment 902293

View attachment 902294

With Laine at full price, you have 12 players signed with $23.8M in space to a $92M cap.

They can sign Byram, Levi, McLeod, and Quinn to the above bridge deals and Peterka to the long term deal and have 17 players signed with $2.7M left and 17 players signed.

That would mean that they need to replace the remaining spots with guys like Rosen, Kulich, Wahlstrom, Komarov, R Johnson, and Novikov depending on if they move guys out to clear cap space.

It would be risky and I wouldn't have done it. But, they absolutely could have done it to do everything they could to make the playoffs in 2024-25 and let the 2025-26 cap issues get worked out next summer.

But, yet again, they are not getting anywhere near the cap and saying it's because of future contracts.

How did that work out two years ago when they missed the playoffs by one point and they led the NHL in the most unused cap space in the entire league?

Rosters are 23 players. You cut Sammy or Clifton to make it work like you suggested and you gain their cap + the original 2.7 million, but now you have to sign 7 guys. It's not really doable, unless, like I previously stated, you have 8 guys making less than 1M.

No team is going to compete with 8 sub 1M dollar players.

I don't think saying, "having 8 sub 1 million dollar players for a team that needs to make the playoffs is a huge issue" is "overstating" the direness of that situation. Do you disagree?

 

[DJN21]

I continue to be just mystified by this off-season.

None of the moves individually have been bad, but the net is
Skinner and a 4th line out (and probably Krebs as healthy scratch)
Zucker, McCleod and a 4th line in
Nothing on D
It's basically a wash.

When you look at it, if this is it, you are counting on Lindy to bring in 5-10 wins by coaching alone.

I just don't get it. These aren't the moves of a desperate GM.

Idc if McLeod steps in an sets the world on fire it was clearly poor asset management only further mitigated by the offer sheet drama that ensued. We could've capitalized better.

Zucker at 5 million is just laughable not counting skinner's buyout cost is essentially attached to him as well.

Im all in and here for the new 4th line. No complaints.

Reimer was a great addition.

I think bryam is gonna surprise and be a great addition that takes pressure off power especially however will the difference between Byram point wise and whoever you have penciled as our 3d otherwise?( id assume Joker or Sammy) drastically make up the point difference between mitts and McLeod? Id wager there will be a 30 point difference there. Doesnt make up for it to justify the trade(s). Im with you im just not seeing it.

Best hope is one of the young guys gets an opportunity and absolutely runs with it. My money would be on kulich not Rosen or helenius there but...guess we will see

 

[Irie]

I continue to be just mystified by this off-season.

None of the moves individually have been bad, but the net is
Skinner and a 4th line out (and probably Krebs as healthy scratch)
Zucker, McCleod and a 4th line in
Nothing on D
It's basically a wash.

When you look at it, if this is it, you are counting on Lindy to bring in 5-10 wins by coaching alone.

I just don't get it. These aren't the moves of a desperate GM.

If Granato were still the coach, I would totally agree, but you also have a new coach and a new system. No one knows what this team has in it's players under the new system yet.

They already brought in way more players than is realistic for any team to run without having some initial on-ice chemistry issues.

Committing large cap hits or giving up substantial assets to add yet more new players in key roles before they know what the teams biggest deficiencies are in the new system is premature.

With Ruff behind the bench the evaluation process resets. There has to be a new evaluation period, which is the last thing impatient Sabres fans want to hear, but it is important.

 

[Jim Bob]

Rosters are 23 players. You cut Sammy or Clifton to make it work like you suggested and you gain their cap + the original 2.7 million, but now you have to sign 7 guys. It's not really doable, unless, like I previously stated, you have 8 guys making less than 1M.

No team is going to compete with 8 sub 1M dollar players.

I don't think saying, "having 8 sub 1 million dollar players for a team that needs to make the playoffs is a huge issue" is "overstating" the direness of that situation. Do you disagree?

It all depends on what "8 sub $1M players" you are talking about and the roles they are being asked to fill.

If Helenius is as NHL ready as Jokinen suggests, him as the 4C next year could be both a cost savings and an upgrade.

Kulich and Rosen could be very NHL ready next year.

The same goes for Ryan Johnson, Komarov, and Novikov.

Yes, it would be a lot of young guys. But, if Laine were filling it up and earning the $8.75M, that makes it easier to accept.

It could also be the case that they sign the RFAs to less than AFP projects.

 

[sabremike]

Ok ok, I went overboard. He's middle of the pack, broad range between 10-20.

"Really? I'm not angry with you, I'm just... disappointed"