The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Jim Bob]

Correct. But it would be fair to say Buffalo winters aren't kind to people suffering from depression either.

Is Montreal any better?

 

[Gras]

Smoked meat?

Beaver tails

 

[zenthusiast]

it’s rare that one can acquire a player of high-end ability without personal or financial concerns for the obvious reason that these players would usually not be available if they lacked them. The key is knowing when to take the shot anyway. I won’t be rending my garment over this fellow but I’m also not convinced this front office knows how/when to make that major move either

 

[Old Navy Goat]

For me, when you break it down like that, and you look at our scoring forwards, and palymakers, they don't do anything for me at all. They would rank bottom 5 in the league for sure. Tage as your top scoring center is bottom 5. Cozens as your two way is bottom 5. Some teams have 2 scoring centers that are both better than either of our guys.

Playmaking wings and power wings are also meh. Tuch was in the top 100 players points scored ranking 94th. Yes Tage was injured but wouldn't have been much higher. Most teams have 3 players that outproduced our top scorer.

This isnt to say I don't like the gel or these guys in general. I like almost all of em. But, we are clearly missing one high end piece. There's nobody close to a top 20 player (Kuch, Pasta, McJesus, Pattersson, MacK, Reinhart, etc, etc). I also realize I am looking at stats here, but still. It's really the overarching point that we are simply lacking, somehow, after all these years of finishing with a top 10 draft pick.

I think it depends on which versions of Thompson and Cozens show up this season. Last year they weren't great, the previous season as the 1/2C tandem they were top 10 league wise. There were few teams that could match them especially with projected growth which unfortunately cratered like my ethereum last week

 

[Irie]

I think that may be overstated.

With Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Lafferty, Malenstyn, and Benson at forward, Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, and Clifton on defense, and UPL signed in goal, they will likely have over $30M in cap space to fill out the roster.

The AFP projections for the extensions for McLeod, Quinn, Peterka, Byram, and Levi total $24.5M if they go LT on everyone for which AFP gives LT/ST options, which they likely will not.

If they had Laine, they might have to choose between Samuelsson or Clifton, for instance. And they could replace a guy like Zucker with a guy on an ELC from Rochester. Which might not be a bad thing. And they might need to bridge one or two of Quinn, Peterka, and Byram which may not be a bad idea.

I didn't like the idea of trading for Laine, especially at the full price. But, I do think the 2025-26 cap situation is getting overblown to explain away not spending more in 2024-25.

I think your abacus is broken, because my abacus tells me that next year with Laine in the mix they would have twelve players signed accounting for 69.4M of the cap.

Assuming the cap raises to 90M, that leaves them 20.6M to sign Byram, Peterka, Quinn, Levi, Greenway, McLeod and 5 others. Even dumping Clifton or Sammy, the math just doesn't add up.

The 23 man roster would need to have 8 or 9 guys making less than 1M. You can't compete with that type of depth.

 

[Mattilaus]

Laine for a 2nd and a scrub prospect.

Never change Buffalo, never change.

You got the 2nd on the wrong side. It's actually Laine and a 2nd for the scrub prospect.

 

[TehDoak]

You've made this comment a few times and people have responded to it every time - his issue was depression, not substance abuse

Either way, winter in Buffalo isn't good for that either.

And Montreal ones will be?

Depressing, but in French!

 

[Sabre the Win]

Why is 2025-2026 such a problem. We have currently 8 million open, the cap will rise at least another 2 million, probably more. let's just say it rises 2 million so that's 10 million before we shed any contracts. I'm sure McLeod gets resigned and we need to sign Quinn. Quinn has a breakout year and goes PPG, we sign him to 8 million, McLeod is everything we dreamed at 3C, gets a 2 million raise so he's now at $4.1 million AAV (length of term doesn't matter for this scenario).

We shed 5 million from Zucker, another 3.1 million from Jokiharju and 3 million from Greenway, we sign Byram to 7 million, we have an ELC replacing Zucker and probably Johnson replacing Joki. You have enough to give Aube-Kuble a raise if he works out, that keeps the new bottom 6 in tact for a few years.

The problem is in 2026-2027 when the dumb Skinner buyout eats up 6.4 million in cap and you need to sign Tuch, Malenstyn, Lafferty and Clifton. I could see the Sabres looking for a cheaper option than Lafferty and Clifton or going in house.

I also didn't mention JJ Peterka but I would bridge him for 3 years (this could seriously bite us) but when he needs to be resigned, we will be passed Skinners dreaded 6.4 million in dead space and we can see what hes worth. If he's still a liability on defence he may fetch us something nice.

And Montreal ones will be?

Wait til he see's the amount of construction downtown Montreal.. its bad.. a real ageing city, roadwork and detours everywhere. They just had that old water pipe rupture and flood a suburb. I was just in Montreal last month and the first thing my friend said to me when I got back, 'lots of road construction everywhere', I emphatically agreed with him

 

[sabremike]

Either way, winter in Buffalo isn't good for that either.



Depressing, but in French!

Deprimant!

 

[Gras]

Deprimant!

 

[sabremike]

Columbus clearly didn't want to retain salary. For how much lamentation there has been over how much cap space we're sitting on, it's deliciously ironic that we DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH CAP SPACE to make this trade on Waddell's terms (assuming a 23-man roster). Good reminder that teams sometimes keep cap space open for future moves just like this, not just for new roofs (already the most tired chirp in the history of Sabres twitter).

I have no idea how anyone can fail to comprehend just how ridiculous it was that the team made a huge deal out of fixing the roof of their crumbling dump of an arena. I can't think of a major pro sports team in my entire life who made a big deal of such a thing. I can't understand how anyone could fail to understand why this would be infuriating and insulting to fans suffering through the worst run of failure in the history of the sport that had an offseason that was universally panned throughout the league. And given the recent history of this team (which saw the team literally pull the Charles Wang Post Lighthouse Defeat Islanders/Arizona Coyotes trick of trading for dead cap space to reach the cap floor) why should they or anyone else have any expectations that the $8 million in cap space will actually be used?

 

[Irie]

Why is 2025-2026 such a problem. We have currently 8 million open, the cap will rise at least another 2 million, probably more. let's just say it rises 2 million so that's 10 million before we shed any contracts. I'm sure McLeod gets resigned and we need to sign Quinn. Quinn has a breakout year and goes PPG, we sign him to 8 million, McLeod is everything we dreamed at 3C, gets a 2 million raise so he's now at $4.1 million AAV (length of term doesn't matter for this scenario).

We shed 5 million from Zucker, another 3.1 million from Jokiharju and 3 million from Greenway, we sign Byram to 7 million, we have an ELC replacing Zucker and probably Johnson replacing Joki. You have enough to give Aube-Kuble a raise if he works out, that keeps the new bottom 6 in tact for a few years.

The problem is in 2026-2027 when the dumb Skinner buyout eats up 6.4 million in cap and you need to sign Tuch, Malenstyn, Lafferty and Clifton. I could see the Sabres looking for a cheaper option than Lafferty and Clifton or going in house.

I also didn't mention JJ Peterka but I would bridge him for 3 years (this could seriously bite us) but when he needs to be resigned, we will be passed Skinners dreaded 6.4 million in dead space and we can see what hes worth. If he's still a liability on defence he may fetch us something nice.


Wait til he see's the amount of construction downtown Montreal.. its bad.. a real ageing city, roadwork and detours everywhere. They just had that old water pipe rupture and flood a suburb. I was just in Montreal last month and the first thing my friend said to me when I got back, 'lots of road construction everywhere', I emphatically agreed with him

A lot of the arguments for 25-26 being an issue revolved around adding Laine's 8.7M, which some posters were saying was not an issue.

Assuming you are correct on Byram, Quinn, and McLeod, with Laine on the team, they would have had 1M in camp space left to bridge Peterka, sign Levi, and then pay 7 other players.

Without Laine, you are going to have 10M in your scenario(Quinn, byram, and McLeod signed) to bridge Peterka, sign Levi, and fill out the remaining 8 roster spots. It is going to be a lot tighter han people here seem to realize.

 

[Panthaz89]

For me, when you break it down like that, and you look at our scoring forwards, and palymakers, they don't do anything for me at all. They would rank bottom 5 in the league for sure. Tage as your top scoring center is bottom 5. Cozens as your two way is bottom 5. Some teams have 2 scoring centers that are both better than either of our guys.

Playmaking wings and power wings are also meh. Tuch was in the top 100 players points scored ranking 94th. Yes Tage was injured but wouldn't have been much higher. Most teams have 3 players that outproduced our top scorer.

This isnt to say I don't like the gel or these guys in general. I like almost all of em. But, we are clearly missing one high end piece. There's nobody close to a top 20 player (Kuch, Pasta, McJesus, Pattersson, MacK, Reinhart, etc, etc). I also realize I am looking at stats here, but still. It's really the overarching point that we are simply lacking, somehow, after all these years of finishing with a top 10 draft pick.

Tage is all of sudden a bottom 5 C(27+ league wide)? Two years ago he put up 47/47 and that was with him also injured near the end of the season no way there are that many centers better than huim.

 

[Djp]

Why is 2025-2026 such a problem. We have currently 8 million open, the cap will rise at least another 2 million, probably more. let's just say it rises 2 million so that's 10 million before we shed any contracts. I'm sure McLeod gets resigned and we need to sign Quinn. Quinn has a breakout year and goes PPG, we sign him to 8 million, McLeod is everything we dreamed at 3C, gets a 2 million raise so he's now at $4.1 million AAV (length of term doesn't matter for this scenario).

We shed 5 million from Zucker, another 3.1 million from Jokiharju and 3 million from Greenway, we sign Byram to 7 million, we have an ELC replacing Zucker and probably Johnson replacing Joki. You have enough to give Aube-Kuble a raise if he works out, that keeps the new bottom 6 in tact for a few years.

The problem is in 2026-2027 when the dumb Skinner buyout eats up 6.4 million in cap and you need to sign Tuch, Malenstyn, Lafferty and Clifton. I could see the Sabres looking for a cheaper option than Lafferty and Clifton or going in house.

I also didn't mention JJ Peterka but I would bridge him for 3 years (this could seriously bite us) but when he needs to be resigned, we will be passed Skinners dreaded 6.4 million in dead space and we can see what hes worth. If he's still a liability on defence he may fetch us something nice.

Next summer...

Quinn
Peterka
Greenway
McLeod
Byram

RyJo replaces Joker at around a $1.6M savings
Levi replaces Reimer at an increase of $0.5M
Zucker is replaced by an ELC so $5.1M in savings

Replacement players...NAK, Bryson, Gilbert get replacement for same cap hit


Roster before signingbthr above

Cap increases to 92, they have 25M in space with a roster of 9/6/2

McLeod resigns for 3
Greenway for 3.5
Byram for 6.5M
So $12M for Quinn, Peterka, and another F

If you sign them to $4M 2:yr bridges. You have $4M in space wh iij ch fits current cap. Room depends on cap raise

In summer 2026..

Benson RFA gets 4M 3 yr as well
Tuck resigned for $6
Malenstyn resigned for $2.35 M
Clifton goes and is replaced with a 1M player
Laferty is resigned for same or replacement at same cap hit

Net changes are
-2.33+1.25+1+3.05=.about +3m in cap hits which could be sd n absorbed by capincreases. skinner buyout is counted in thus and relies on cap going up.

Its going to be close to the cap for both seasons so oS make it dangerous

Summer 2027

Skinner penalty drops 4M and quinn and Peterka are due for raises

I see summer 2026 and 027 as a cross road because of possible trades happening trading some of the young players like one of byram/Power/Dahlin or quinn/peterja being moved with other ELC ending in 26-28 summers

If hrlrnius show he is a 1C maybe tage is traded with a few years left.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

People knocking Montreal haven’t really been there. There’s a shitload of cultural things there and close by, the clubs are great, and winters aren’t too bad.

It’s (now neighbourhoods) like Longueuil, Laval etc. that get lumped in with Montreal being crappy. That’s where the French frenzy exists.

The only city I like better is Ottawa, and that’s because they’ve somehow managed to pull off the whole “major city while still feeling like a small town” thing.

 

[Sabre the Win]

People knocking Montreal haven’t really been there. There’s a shitload of cultural things there and close by, the clubs are great, and winters aren’t too bad.

It’s (now neighbourhoods) like Longueuil, Laval etc. that get lumped in with Montreal being crappy. That’s where the French frenzy exists.

The only city I like better is Ottawa, and that’s because they’ve somehow managed to pull off the whole “major city while still feeling like a small town” thing.

Are you really going to deny the amount of road construction going on there? from the port of Montreal and downtown, there are detours and pylons everywhere. It's not knocking a city if its the truth.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Are you really going to deny the amount of road construction going on there? from the port of Montreal and downtown, there are detours and pylons everywhere. It's not knocking a city if its the truth.

There’s construction in every city. They have to because of the city budget. I literally just went to Toronto last week, and everything in and outside of Sudbury was under construction.

But to get back on topic, Montreal has a lot going on that would entice an NHL player. The only drawback is the media.

 

[TageGod]

If hrlrnius show he is a 1C maybe tage is traded with a few years left.

lol. No. He won't be a 1C.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think your abacus is broken, because my abacus tells me that next year with Laine in the mix they would have twelve players signed accounting for 69.4M of the cap.

Assuming the cap raises to 90M, that leaves them 20.6M to sign Byram, Peterka, Quinn, Levi, Greenway, McLeod and 5 others. Even dumping Clifton or Sammy, the math just doesn't add up.

The 23 man roster would need to have 8 or 9 guys making less than 1M. You can't compete with that type of depth.

A $2M jump in the cap is on the low side of what many expect for next season. $92M is the projection that I see used most often.

With Laine at full price, you have 12 players signed with $23.8M in space to a $92M cap.

They can sign Byram, Levi, McLeod, and Quinn to the above bridge deals and Peterka to the long term deal and have 17 players signed with $2.7M left and 17 players signed.

That would mean that they need to replace the remaining spots with guys like Rosen, Kulich, Wahlstrom, Komarov, R Johnson, and Novikov depending on if they move guys out to clear cap space.

It would be risky and I wouldn't have done it. But, they absolutely could have done it to do everything they could to make the playoffs in 2024-25 and let the 2025-26 cap issues get worked out next summer.

But, yet again, they are not getting anywhere near the cap and saying it's because of future contracts.

How did that work out two years ago when they missed the playoffs by one point and they led the NHL in the most unused cap space in the entire league?

 

[Beerz]

Either way, winter in Buffalo isn't good for that either.



Depressing, but in French!

Les Misérables..

 

[Jim Bob]

lol. No. He won't be a 1C.

I won't be shocked if he is good enough that they move Cozens or Thompson to the wing.

 

[TageGod]

I won't be shocked if he is good enough that they move Cozens or Thompson to the wing.

I do see long term middle of the road 2C/high end 3C out of him.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Montreal is amazing but the road construction is absolutely bad compared to major cities. I live in NYC as comparison.

 

[HOOats]

The only city I like better is Ottawa, and that’s because they’ve somehow managed to pull off the whole “major city while still feeling like a small town” thing.

If their tourism board needs a new slogan, I'd suggest, "Ottawa - for those who want to live in or visit the inside of a manilla envelope."

Montreal makes Ottawa look like Clarence, NY.

 

[joshjull]

I didn't put any words in your mouth.

I was giving my opinion on the take that the Sabres were restricted in making moves in 2024-25 because of potential cap issues in 2025-26. I think that logic doesn't hold a ton of water.

I didn’t have that take or even mentioned it. So why bring it up in response to my post unless you felt I was saying that? You clearly felt thats what my “pain in the ass” comment about Laine’s deal meant.

The funny thing is you kinda nailed what I was thinking when I posted that in your original post.

“If they had Laine, they might have to choose between Samuelsson or Clifton, for instance. And they could replace a guy like Zucker with a guy on an ELC from Rochester. Which might not be a bad thing. And they might need to bridge one or two of Quinn, Peterka, and Byram which may not be a bad idea.”

Basically it would be a pain in the ass to have to deal with these things. There are players worth doing this for (and more) to add/keep them on your roster. Laine with that contract ain’t one of them.