The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Dubi Doo]

I thought Laine was going to cost a lot so I wasn’t interested. But for basically free? Sure. Why not

Adams never had an interim title.

i’d say it rocked the boat pretty hard when Adams failed to extend Ullmark and Reinhart.

Why's that? That contract is spooky. I wanted Lained because I'd thought he come relatively cheap even with some retention.

 

[TehDoak]

Are people upset we didn't get Laine? I mean...Buffalo winters aren't kind to those with substance abuse issues. He likely wouldn't have been a fit anyways under Ruff.

Montreal is essentially going to re-build his value by giving him oodles of ice time, no defensive responsibility, juice up his numbers, retain some salary and get a 1st for him at the deadline. But...they don't care about winning so they can do that.

We can't.

Adams issues stem from his inaction the last 3 years, not from not picking up an expensive reclamation project in a must win year.

 

[joshjull]

Montreal got a good player for nothing, even with his whole situation in Columbus he had almost PPG stats for the last three years. It is clear that not everyone here likes Laine, but it seems he has never been a jerk or a locker room cancer to not make such a trade. For now Adams is a GM who never takes risks and hopes for internal growth, and also prays that we do not have injuries. Hopefully this will be enough for the playoffs, otherwise he is f***ed.

The underlined is a pretty ironic concern in a post advocating to acquire Laine. He’s played 56, 55 and 18 games respectively the last 3 seasons.

Laine’s cap hit combined with Skinner’s buyout would be 10.14mil and 14.14mil the next 2 seasons. That second season (14.14mil) would be a pain in the ass for our attempts to re-sign Quinn, Peterka and Byram. All for a player who doesn’t play a complete game and with a lot of injury issues recently. Skinner was bought out in part due the flaws in his game. Paying even more for another goal scoring winger with issues seems pretty counterproductive.

Laine also wouldn't be used to maximum effect here due to the other talent we have. (Like Tage blocking him from PP1). He (Laine) played big minutes in Columbus (14+mins 5v5/19mins overall) contributing to his production.

I agree with your sentiment that we should be looking to acquire more offensive depth. But Laine is one hell of an expensive/risky option for that. The cap complications next season alone simply aren’t worth it. Acquiring him without a lot of retention was not a good fit.

 

[Jim Bob]

Are people upset we didn't get Laine? I mean...Buffalo winters aren't kind to those with substance abuse issues. He likely wouldn't have been a fit anyways under Ruff.

Montreal is essentially going to re-build his value by giving him oodles of ice time, no defensive responsibility, juice up his numbers, retain some salary and get a 1st for him at the deadline. But...they don't care about winning so they can do that.

We can't.

Adams issues stem from his inaction the last 3 years, not from not picking up an expensive reclamation project in a must win year.

Laine did not enter the player assistance program for substance abuse issues. He entered it due to mental health issues. And he is not the first player to do so. There have been players enter it to deal with OCD, among other things, in the past.

 

[Jim Bob]

The underlined is a pretty ironic concern in a post advocating to acquire Laine. He’s played 56, 55 and 18 games respectively the last 3 seasons.

Laine’s cap hit combined with Skinner’s buyout would be 10.14mil and 14.14mil the next 2 seasons. That second season (14.14mil) would be a pain in the ass for our attempts to re-sign Quinn, Peterka and Byram. All for a player who doesn’t play a complete game and with a lot of injury issues recently. Skinner was bought in part due the flaws in his game. Paying even more for another goal scoring winger with issues seems pretty counterproductive.

Laine also wouldn't be used to maximum effect here due to the other talent we have. (Like Tage blocking him from PP1). He (Laine) played big minutes in Columbus (14+mins 5v5/19mins overall) contributing to his production.

I agree with your sentiment that we should be looking to acquire more offensive depth. But Laine is one hell of an expensive/risky option for that. The cap complications next season alone simply aren’t worth it. Acquiring him without a lot of retention was not a good fit.

I think that may be overstated.

With Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Lafferty, Malenstyn, and Benson at forward, Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, and Clifton on defense, and UPL signed in goal, they will likely have over $30M in cap space to fill out the roster.

The AFP projections for the extensions for McLeod, Quinn, Peterka, Byram, and Levi total $24.5M if they go LT on everyone for which AFP gives LT/ST options, which they likely will not.

If they had Laine, they might have to choose between Samuelsson or Clifton, for instance. And they could replace a guy like Zucker with a guy on an ELC from Rochester. Which might not be a bad thing. And they might need to bridge one or two of Quinn, Peterka, and Byram which may not be a bad idea.

I didn't like the idea of trading for Laine, especially at the full price. But, I do think the 2025-26 cap situation is getting overblown to explain away not spending more in 2024-25.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

-Fired and replaced our coach
-Bought out Skinner
-Completely revamped our bottom 6 with 4 new players
-Signed a vet middle 6 winger
-added defensive depth

You can want more from this offseason. But there is no way you can describe this offseason as the Sabres “sitting on their hands”.

Fair point. Poor choice of words on my part. Sitting on their hands regarding the top 6. I thought the idea was to buy out skinner and bring in a talented vet to round out the top 6. If that is the case, then we have not done that yet.

You're absolutely right, though.

 

[Zman5778]

I thought the idea was to buy out skinner and bring in a talented vet to round out the top 6. If that is the case, then we have not done that yet.

I've seen this sentiment a lot lately.....and I just don't get it (not singling you out, was just a nice snippet I could quote)

We've got Benson, Kulich, Rosen, Ostlund and Wahlberg who could go out at camp and seize a top 6 spot. We brought in Zucker to cover our asses if one of the kids don't.....and he also brings something that the kids currently do not.

The Skinner move has always seemed to me about accountability in the locker room/locker room culture.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

I've seen this sentiment a lot lately.....and I just don't get it (not singling you out, was just a nice snippet I could quote)

We've got Benson, Kulich, Rosen, Ostlund and Wahlberg who could go out at camp and seize a top 6 spot. We brought in Zucker to cover our asses if one of the kids don't.....and he also brings something that the kids currently do not.

The Skinner move has always seemed to me about accountability in the locker room/locker room culture.

I have been completely checked out this offseason. In fact, this may be my first time back on here in months. I completely forgot that we signed zucker.

My impression is that a large swath of fans believe we are one top 6 winger away from being competitive. I am not sure that i agree with that. Coupled with Adams saying our time is now, a lot of people may have filled in the blanks ad lib style and jumped to the top 6 winger conclusion. Just a guess because, seriously, wtf do i know?

edit - forgot to mention that i think you are 100% right that skinner's buy out was about accountability. I liked skinner and i am sure he wanted to win here, but he wasn't the guy to put in the extra work from what i could tell.

 

[joshjull]

I think that may be overstated.

With Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Lafferty, Malenstyn, and Benson at forward, Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, and Clifton on defense, and UPL signed in goal, they will likely have over $30M in cap space to fill out the roster.

The AFP projections for the extensions for McLeod, Quinn, Peterka, Byram, and Levi total $24.5M if they go LT on everyone for which AFP gives LT/ST options, which they likely will not.

If they had Laine, they might have to choose between Samuelsson or Clifton, for instance. And they could replace a guy like Zucker with a guy on an ELC from Rochester. Which might not be a bad thing. And they might need to bridge one or two of Quinn, Peterka, and Byram which may not be a bad idea.

I didn't like the idea of trading for Laine, especially at the full price. But, I do think the 2025-26 cap situation is getting overblown to explain away not spending more in 2024-25.

I don’t think the impact of ass pain can ever be overstated

 

[toddkaz]

Laine for a 2nd and a scrub prospect.

Never change Buffalo, never change.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Structurally, I think the Sabres roster is sound.

Centers:
Scoring center: Thompson
2-way center: Cozens
Defensive centers: McLeod, Lafferty, Krebs

Adams has some flexibility here as well. Helenius may end up a Sabre sooner than later. That could set up the Sabres somewhat akin to the Panthers, with Thompson, Cozens, and Helenius up the middle, making them tough to play against. That could bump McLeod to wing or even as the 4C. Which may seem bad, but remember that players like Marcus Krueger at 4C make teams really hard to play against.

If Ostlund develops, it could give the Sabres some seriously enviable center depth. Imagine a center spine of Thompson, Ostlund, Helenius, and McLeod, with Cozens available as a winger. If there's a criticism, it's that they don't have the creative playmaking center.

Wings:
Scorers: Peterka
Playmakers: Quinn, Benson, Zucker
Power wingers: Tuch, Greenway, Malenstyn
Defensive: NAK

I think the team is set up fairly well, but I'd love for them to have another power winger high in the line-up. They still don't have that net front presence who can bang in goals and help a power play. But overall it's a decent group with a lot of potential in the development of Peterka, Quinn, and Benson.

Kulich adds scoring punch, Rosen is a playmaker, and Wahlberg could fill the power forward need in the future.

Defense
All around: Dahlin, Byrum
Transition and offense: Power
Defense: Samuelsson, Clifton, Bryson, Gilbert
Transition: Jokiharju

I think this group is in really good shape. Dahlin is the center piece. Byrum could be a tremendous 2nd pairing defenseman if he's not covering for another player. Power seems to be divisive for the fanbase. His transition ability is pretty good. I think he's a better version of Bouwmeester (have since the draft) and if expectations are such, he's a heck of a player. Bryson seems better as a defensive zone player and the Sabres have depth in that role.

I don't know where Jokiharju fits. He may be a wait and see type this season under Ruff. Johnson will be the first call up and he fills the role of the new age defensive defenseman: mobile with a great stick. The organization is deep to D #10 with Clague, so no need to rush anyone.

Goaltending
UPL, Reimer, Levi

Adams doesn't get credit for sticking to his guns with the goaltending, but he should. UPL is a fine starter who will only get better. He's fully transitioned to the new style of goaltending. Pick up Reimer was brilliant. He should not start a lot. Just wear the baseball cap and pinch hit when needed. That allows Levi to play in Rochester and then only come to Buffalo when he's going to start.

Overall, I think the biggest changes will be Ruff and the use of a legitimate bottom 6. I think this roster on paper is about 10th in the conference but Ruff will get more development out of them and they will squeak into the playoffs.

 

[HOOats]

What do we think on Krebs? Feels like something will happen this week with the league is coming back to life as front offices dry out from cottage season.

Is there a trade out there Krebs + prospects/picks for a slightly better Zucker?

 

[Selanne00008]

Structurally, I think the Sabres roster is sound.

Centers:
Scoring center: Thompson
2-way center: Cozens
Defensive centers: McLeod, Lafferty, Krebs

Adams has some flexibility here as well. Helenius may end up a Sabre sooner than later. That could set up the Sabres somewhat akin to the Panthers, with Thompson, Cozens, and Helenius up the middle, making them tough to play against. That could bump McLeod to wing or even as the 4C. Which may seem bad, but remember that players like Marcus Krueger at 4C make teams really hard to play against.

If Ostlund develops, it could give the Sabres some seriously enviable center depth. Imagine a center spine of Thompson, Ostlund, Helenius, and McLeod, with Cozens available as a winger. If there's a criticism, it's that they don't have the creative playmaking center.

Wings:
Scorers: Peterka
Playmakers: Quinn, Benson, Zucker
Power wingers: Tuch, Greenway, Malenstyn
Defensive: NAK

I think the team is set up fairly well, but I'd love for them to have another power winger high in the line-up. They still don't have that net front presence who can bang in goals and help a power play. But overall it's a decent group with a lot of potential in the development of Peterka, Quinn, and Benson.

Kulich adds scoring punch, Rosen is a playmaker, and Wahlberg could fill the power forward need in the future.

Defense
All around: Dahlin, Byrum
Transition and offense: Power
Defense: Samuelsson, Clifton, Bryson, Gilbert
Transition: Jokiharju

I think this group is in really good shape. Dahlin is the center piece. Byrum could be a tremendous 2nd pairing defenseman if he's not covering for another player. Power seems to be divisive for the fanbase. His transition ability is pretty good. I think he's a better version of Bouwmeester (have since the draft) and if expectations are such, he's a heck of a player. Bryson seems better as a defensive zone player and the Sabres have depth in that role.

I don't know where Jokiharju fits. He may be a wait and see type this season under Ruff. Johnson will be the first call up and he fills the role of the new age defensive defenseman: mobile with a great stick. The organization is deep to D #10 with Clague, so no need to rush anyone.

Goaltending
UPL, Bernier, Levi

Adams doesn't get credit for sticking to his guns with the goaltending, but he should. UPL is a fine starter who will only get better. He's fully transitioned to the new style of goaltending. Pick up Bernier was brilliant. He should not start a lot. Just wear the baseball cap and pinch hit when needed. That allows Levi to play in Rochester and then only come to Buffalo when he's going to start.

Overall, I think the biggest changes will be Ruff and the use of a legitimate bottom 6. I think this roster on paper is about 10th in the conference but Ruff will get more development out of them and they will squeak into the playoffs.

For me, when you break it down like that, and you look at our scoring forwards, and palymakers, they don't do anything for me at all. They would rank bottom 5 in the league for sure. Tage as your top scoring center is bottom 5. Cozens as your two way is bottom 5. Some teams have 2 scoring centers that are both better than either of our guys.

Playmaking wings and power wings are also meh. Tuch was in the top 100 players points scored ranking 94th. Yes Tage was injured but wouldn't have been much higher. Most teams have 3 players that outproduced our top scorer.

This isnt to say I don't like the gel or these guys in general. I like almost all of em. But, we are clearly missing one high end piece. There's nobody close to a top 20 player (Kuch, Pasta, McJesus, Pattersson, MacK, Reinhart, etc, etc). I also realize I am looking at stats here, but still. It's really the overarching point that we are simply lacking, somehow, after all these years of finishing with a top 10 draft pick.

 

[joshjull]

I didn't like the idea of trading for Laine, especially at the full price. But, I do think the 2025-26 cap situation is getting overblown to explain away not spending more in 2024-25.

I wanted to address this separately.

Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say anything about not spending more money in general due to the 25-26 cap situation. My post was very specific to Laine and his contract in relation to the cap.

You appear to be using my post as a jumping off point to gripe about something others have posted.

 

[Dingo44]

Structurally, I think the Sabres roster is sound.

Centers:
Scoring center: Thompson
2-way center: Cozens
Defensive centers: McLeod, Lafferty, Krebs

Adams has some flexibility here as well. Helenius may end up a Sabre sooner than later. That could set up the Sabres somewhat akin to the Panthers, with Thompson, Cozens, and Helenius up the middle, making them tough to play against. That could bump McLeod to wing or even as the 4C. Which may seem bad, but remember that players like Marcus Krueger at 4C make teams really hard to play against.

If Ostlund develops, it could give the Sabres some seriously enviable center depth. Imagine a center spine of Thompson, Ostlund, Helenius, and McLeod, with Cozens available as a winger. If there's a criticism, it's that they don't have the creative playmaking center.

Wings:
Scorers: Peterka
Playmakers: Quinn, Benson, Zucker
Power wingers: Tuch, Greenway, Malenstyn
Defensive: NAK

I think the team is set up fairly well, but I'd love for them to have another power winger high in the line-up. They still don't have that net front presence who can bang in goals and help a power play. But overall it's a decent group with a lot of potential in the development of Peterka, Quinn, and Benson.

Kulich adds scoring punch, Rosen is a playmaker, and Wahlberg could fill the power forward need in the future.

Defense
All around: Dahlin, Byrum
Transition and offense: Power
Defense: Samuelsson, Clifton, Bryson, Gilbert
Transition: Jokiharju

I think this group is in really good shape. Dahlin is the center piece. Byrum could be a tremendous 2nd pairing defenseman if he's not covering for another player. Power seems to be divisive for the fanbase. His transition ability is pretty good. I think he's a better version of Bouwmeester (have since the draft) and if expectations are such, he's a heck of a player. Bryson seems better as a defensive zone player and the Sabres have depth in that role.

I don't know where Jokiharju fits. He may be a wait and see type this season under Ruff. Johnson will be the first call up and he fills the role of the new age defensive defenseman: mobile with a great stick. The organization is deep to D #10 with Clague, so no need to rush anyone.

Goaltending
UPL, Bernier, Levi

Adams doesn't get credit for sticking to his guns with the goaltending, but he should. UPL is a fine starter who will only get better. He's fully transitioned to the new style of goaltending. Pick up Bernier was brilliant. He should not start a lot. Just wear the baseball cap and pinch hit when needed. That allows Levi to play in Rochester and then only come to Buffalo when he's going to start.

Overall, I think the biggest changes will be Ruff and the use of a legitimate bottom 6. I think this roster on paper is about 10th in the conference but Ruff will get more development out of them and they will squeak into the playoffs.

Good post but I am sure you meant Reimer and not Bernier. I do know they have played together so I get the confusion.

 

[Der Jaeger]

For me, when you break it down like that, and you look at our scoring forwards, and palymakers, they don't do anything for me at all. They would rank bottom 5 in the league for sure. Tage as your top scoring center is bottom 5. Cozens as your two way is bottom 5. Some teams have 2 scoring centers that are both better than either of our guys.

Playmaking wings and power wings are also meh. Tuch was in the top 100 players points scored ranking 94th. Yes Tage was injured but wouldn't have been much higher. Most teams have 3 players that outproduced our top scorer.

This isnt to say I don't like the gel or these guys in general. I like almost all of em. But, we are clearly missing one high end piece. There's nobody close to a top 20 player (Kuch, Pasta, McJesus, Pattersson, MacK, Reinhart, etc, etc). I also realize I am looking at stats here, but still. It's really the overarching point that we are simply lacking, somehow, after all these years of finishing with a top 10 draft pick.

My thinking around acquiring Zegras is basically to fill this need.

 

[Club]

In my opinion with our notable RFAs next season looking to get re-signed & only so much money to go around I think with another significant injury Quinn will be the odd man out if I had to pick someone off that list.

 

[Jim Bob]

I wanted to address this separately.

Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say anything about not spending more money in general due to the 25-26 cap situation. My post was very specific to Laine and his contract in relation to the cap.

You appear to be using my post as a jumping off point to gripe about something others have posted.

I didn't put any words in your mouth.

I was giving my opinion on the take that the Sabres were restricted in making moves in 2024-25 because of potential cap issues in 2025-26. I think that logic doesn't hold a ton of water.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I've seen this sentiment a lot lately.....and I just don't get it (not singling you out, was just a nice snippet I could quote)

We've got Benson, Kulich, Rosen, Ostlund and Wahlberg who could go out at camp and seize a top 6 spot. We brought in Zucker to cover our asses if one of the kids don't.....and he also brings something that the kids currently do not.

The Skinner move has always seemed to me about accountability in the locker room/locker room culture.

Also, the top-6 can operate well with the right mix of players even if they aren't all quality top-6 guys. Take Zucker for instance, if he can be a physical net front presence who can chip in 20 goals and do the dirty work for let's say Cozens line- then he can be an asset on that line even if he's more of a third liner. The fact he can hold his own with the mitts off is an added bonus. If it prevents Cozens from getting his face caved in again- that's the cherry on top.

 

[Chainshot]

Are people upset we didn't get Laine? I mean...Buffalo winters aren't kind to those with substance abuse issues. He likely wouldn't have been a fit anyways under Ruff.

You've made this comment a few times and people have responded to it every time - his issue was depression, not substance abuse.

 

[sabremike]

You've made this comment a few times and people have responded to it every time - his issue was depression, not substance abuse.

Correct. But it would be fair to say Buffalo winters aren't kind to people suffering from depression either.

 

[OkimLom]

Are people upset we didn't get Laine? I mean...Buffalo winters aren't kind to those with substance abuse issues. He likely wouldn't have been a fit anyways under Ruff.

Montreal is essentially going to re-build his value by giving him oodles of ice time, no defensive responsibility, juice up his numbers, retain some salary and get a 1st for him at the deadline. But...they don't care about winning so they can do that.

We can't.

Adams issues stem from his inaction the last 3 years, not from not picking up an expensive reclamation project in a must win year.

I'm sure Montreal has tropic-like sort of winters, and I'm sure the 2nd most pressurized fanbase to players will be great for the guy's mental health.

 

[Chainshot]

Correct. But it would be fair to say Buffalo winters aren't kind to people suffering from depression either.

And Montreal ones will be?

 

[sabremike]

And Montreal ones will be?

Wasn't arguing otherwise. Maybe the guy just freaking loves poutine???

 

[Chainshot]

Wasn't arguing otherwise. Maybe the guy just freaking loves poutine???

Smoked meat?