The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

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TehDoak

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Will fix everything
Who cares about Ehlers and Necas. People seem to be fixated on two players. There is more than two players in the NHL.

It's mind boggling that this team missed the playoffs for 14 straight years and people still make excuses for management

It'd be one thing if you had an otherwise proven GM who couldn't get a deal done during the summer. I think its OK to give the benefit of the doubt to a GM/Coach when they've proven they have a high level of competence.

I didn't understand the Diggs trade (especially with the dead cap) but I trust that Beane and Co are doing to the right thing given that they are consistently a division winner and contender.

But....when a GM hasn't proven he can build a winning team, especially after 5 offseasons of medicority and 4 full seasons of missing the playoffs under his belt....it's pretty wild to give them any benefit of the doubt. The current iteration of the front office has earned zero trust with the on ice product.

1 season of a team almost making the playoffs in a league where half the teams make the playoffs isn't accomplishment, it's failure.

I personally think Beck is gonna be fine and we will all love him by game 3 and the rest will be history we barely remember.

I don't see any rational way Mcleod does the same. What are we honestly projecting him for? 10-20? 15-25? (I think thats the highest end I'd go with any reasonable projection point wise)

The only thing at all that makes sense in this one is the Sabres knew his shoulder was shot. You Can say other GM's soured on him which is fine, then keep him and send out Rosen or kulich for a better return than mcleod and hope you were wrong about Savoie.

This trade won't make sense to me until I'm proven wrong but even then it's cool because it meant we finally did something right lol. Idk, I dont mean to keep going down the same rabbit hole I'm just perplexed at the lack of leverage in a trade. Look at Edmonton now? Cap hell and possibly losing its former 1st round picks but we were just like "Cool have one of ours!"

The only other time a trade has been so odd to me in recent memory was the 1st for Lehner when Ottawa had 3 goalies already under contract and I may be misremembering but no ahl options left and we just outbid ourselves for no apparent reason.

I think Mcleod will be a solid addition and I'm not shitting on the kid personally at all the deal just leaves me perplexed.

Moving out an early 2nd round pick and a former top 10 pick for a 4th line winger and a defensive center can only be vindicated by success on the ice.

It's like Tampa's GM overpaying for young cheap grinders. You can justify it if it leads to a cup win.

On their face, these trades are massive overpays.

If the team goes out and makes the playoffs and they are big contributors....then yes, Adams will be justified.

If they fill those roles but it doesn't move the needle, standings. wise, then these trades will be just more in a long line of Adams sending out talent without getting enough in return.
 
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DJN21

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It'd be one thing if you had an otherwise proven GM who couldn't get a deal done during the summer. I think its OK to give the benefit of the doubt to a GM/Coach when they've proven they have a high level of competence.

I didn't understand the Diggs trade (especially with the dead cap) but I trust that Beane and Co are doing to the right thing given that they are consistently a division winner and contender.

But....when a GM hasn't proven he can build a winning team, especially after 5 offseasons of medicority and 4 full seasons of missing the playoffs under his belt....it's pretty wild to give them any benefit of the doubt. The current iteration of the front office has earned zero trust with the on ice product.

1 season of a team almost making the playoffs in a league where half the teams make the playoffs isn't accomplishment, it's failure.



Moving out an early 2nd round pick and a former top 10 pick for a 4th line winger and a defensive center can only be vindicated by success on the ice.

It's like Tampa's GM overpaying for young cheap grinders. You can justify it if it leads to a cup win.

On their face, these trades are massive overpays.

If the team goes out and makes the playoffs and they are big contributors....then yes, Adams will be justified.

If they fill those roles but it doesn't move the needle, standings. wise, then these trades will be just more in a long line of Adams sending out talent without getting enough in return.
agreed entirely. I'm also perplexed by the idea we have to move these smaller potential wing players out because we have to many of them......how do you think we got there?! Draft differently or make moves sooner before you justify trading a former top 10 pick for a 3rd liner player at best. We shouldn't have the approach of "we have to many dimes and we need a quarter so lets trade a dime for a nickel". It doesnt make sense to me. Winners and cup contendors can get away with that. We are losing trades just to hopefully get bounced in the first round and make everyone happy by ending the streak. Seems so inconsequential to me. Then again I'm not a GM for a reason I reckon.....back to yelling at clouds I go!
 

SundherDome

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Well then why use an excuse it takes two to tango yet he gets fired because he couldn't get the job done?

I criticize him for his inability to improve the top 6 while others defend him.

Makes no sense to me especially if they miss the playoffs again. Gotta pay up to make the playoffs then so be it.
The two to tango piece isn't an excuse. Nobody moved a top 6 player via trade. It's a universal known. He has the whole season imo to improve the team, he should still be kicking tires and pushing GM's to make a move but he can't force them. The hope is a team that thought they were in it is out early and begin looking at selling pieces off. If after this season we finish in 10th and he sat on his hands, I think it is reasonable to have the discussion "could someone else do it better".
 

MarkusKetterer

Shoulda got one game in
agreed entirely. I'm also perplexed by the idea we have to move these smaller potential wing players out because we have to many of them......how do you think we got there?! Draft differently or make moves sooner before you justify trading a former top 10 pick for a 3rd liner player at best. We shouldn't have the approach of "we have to many dimes and we need a quarter so lets trade a dime for a nickel". It doesnt make sense to me. Winners and cup contendors can get away with that. We are losing trades just to hopefully get bounced in the first round and make everyone happy by ending the streak. Seems so inconsequential to me. Then again I'm not a GM for a reason I reckon.....back to yelling at clouds I go!

I’d be happy if this team gets bounced in the first round next year. The season after that I won’t be.
 

BFLO

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lol did you just dig up my post from a month ago?
Yeah… I accidentally ended up back a bunch of pages and realized it was a month old and chose to reply anyway because I’m just so tired of hearing the same false claims that it was Botts who lost us Reinhart and Ullmark when it was actually Adams.

It’s a pet peeve of mine to see people keep posting the same factually incorrect things over and over. But I seem to have lost the battle. No one cares what actually happened. They’d rather believe Botts was still the GM when Ullmark and Reinhart filed for arbitration and then signed them to their 2nd bridge deals. (Adams had actually been the GM for four months by the time they filed for arbitration)
 

Jacob582

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Oct 16, 2012
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Yeah… I accidentally ended up back a bunch of pages and realized it was a month old and chose to reply anyway because I’m just so tired of hearing the same false claims that it was Botts who lost us Reinhart and Ullmark when it was actually Adams.

It’s a pet peeve of mine to see people keep posting the same factually incorrect things over and over. But I seem to have lost the battle. No one cares what actually happened. They’d rather believe Botts was still the GM when Ullmark and Reinhart filed for arbitration and then signed them to their 2nd bridge deals. (Adams had actually been the GM for four months by the time they filed for arbitration)
I think Adams (pegula?) learned a lesson with Ullmark. Helped him with UPL negotiations.

Sucks for us, that he is learning on the job.
 
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Djp

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Jul 28, 2012
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C’mon. We have gone through this every summer. You can’t just play the ‘well who should have Adams got, there wasn’t anyone available’

It’s Adams job to add players to his team. He himself stated he wanted a top six forward. And that was before he bought out Skinner.

His solution was to add a guy who scored 14 goals last year, was traded for a 6th round pick, and is extremely injury prone, and had to pay double his market rate to do it.

That’s a bad job as a GM, anyway you slice it. To state you want a top six forward and add, at best, an oft injured 32 year old with one good season in the last 5, is a failed job. It doesn’t matter what other teams did. He stated that ‘everything was on the table’ and came away empty handed.
He looked sg it but wasnt paying the price. As mentioned no yop 6 F were traded.

Other UFA wingers were overpaid

One thing Adam's didnt want to do was sign a bad contract

You see what happened to Edmonton. Thst cou ln d happen to buffalo in the next 3 summers if they signed whi you wanted.
I mean, the low hanging fruit was Maginpane for a 2nd, which we gave up for a 4th liner.

My "Could have" is Teuvo Teravainen, who signed a 3 year, 16M deal. If he offers him a 5 year, 30M deal, does he say no?

And it should be noted that part of the reason its so hard to recruit to Buffalo is Adams poor management of the team.

He's not a recruiting plus.
Mangio had some control and could have blocked as buffalo trade

Who cares about Ehlers and Necas. People seem to be fixated on two players. There is more than two players in the NHL.

It's mind boggling that this team missed the playoffs for 14 straight years and people still make excuses for management


Let's be fair to Adam's and not blame all years on him.

His plan was I'm going to move name players and take these 3 years to rebuild.
I don't see any rational way Mcleod does the same. What are we honestly projecting him for? 10-20? 15-25? (I think thats the highest end I'd go with any reasonable projection point wise)

See what happens with him. Maybe it was a system fit issue.
The only thing at all that makes sense in this one is the Sabres knew his shoulder was shot. You Can say other GM's soured on him which is fine, then keep him and send out Rosen or kulich for a better return than mcleod and hope you were wrong about Savoie.

I think there was issues with him being an injury risk playing in the nhl. I also think something else was going on behind the scenes that is an issue.
The only other time a trade has been so odd to me in recent memory was the 1st for Lehner when Ottawa had 3 goalies already under contract and I may be misremembering but no ahl options left and we just outbid ourselves for no apparent reason.

I think Mcleod will be a solid addition and I'm not shitting on the kid personally at all the deal just leaves me perplexed.

Lehner was 23 at time of the trade with 5 yrs of team control. He was drafted in the 2nd. His price wasnt outrageous.
It'd be one thing if you had an otherwise proven GM who couldn't get a deal done during the summer. I think its OK to give the benefit of the doubt to a GM/Coach when they've proven they have a high level of competence.

I didn't understand the Diggs trade (especially with the dead cap) but I trust that Beane and Co are doing to the right thing given that they are consistently a division winner and contender.
He was going to get hit with dead csp either way in trade or buyout. He got back MIN 2nd in next yrs draft which could be in the 30s
But....when a GM hasn't proven he can build a winning team, especially after 5 offseasons of medicority and 4 full seasons of missing the playoffs under his belt....it's pretty wild to give them any benefit of the doubt. The current iteration of the front office has earned zero trust with the on ice product.

Yr 1 he us hired after botts is fired. They had no chance to hire/ interview for a gm. Adams in yr 2 might have bern operating in a temp tole thus l IU strning to what the coach wanted and not fo any crazy contracts.

In that time after he knows he has the permanent gig and when team finishes sd hes last, th ef y sre going to rebuilt with trading out Eichel, reinhart, and risto

The past 3 season were focused on rebuilding the club

Talking of the playoff drought is blaming Adams for all if it.
1 season of a team almost making the playoffs in a league where half the teams make the playoffs isn't accomplishment, it's failure.



Moving out an early 2nd round pick and a former top 10 pick for a 4th line winger and a
defensive center can only be vindicated by success on the ice.

I have no issue with the moves given thr depth they have in prospects.
If they fill those roles but it doesn't move the needle, standings. wise, then these trades will be just more in a long line of Adams sending out talent without getting enough in return.

The last 2 seasons injuries played a significant factor

You dont plan for 10 game stretches where you lose 4 of your 5 top D or 4 of your 5 top F
It’s a pet peeve of mine to see people keep posting the same factually incorrect things over and over. But I seem to have lost the battle. No one cares what actually happened. They’d rather believe Botts was still the GM when Ullmark and Reinhart filed for arbitration and then signed them to their 2nd bridge deals. (Adams had actually been the GM for four months by the time they filed for arbitration)

Adams when he took over was during Covid and botts bring fired was unexpected.

I think Adams might have bern a pure temp in yr 1 so he was going to just hold the ship. No big signings, and asked the coach for what players he wanted. Only later did he become something more than interim/temp

Ullmark was very injury prone so that was a big issue in investing starting money on a player who wouldnt be starting was risky. Adams did offer the same as Boston.
 

debaser66

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Maybe Casey didn't want to stay for less than what Tage makes. Impossible to say it's a gamble that "wasn't necessary". I'd much rather have Byram than neither Byram nor Mitts
He indicated in an interview/statement that he wanted to stay in Buffalo and wasnt offered a contract, this is soley on Adams and his vision on how he wants to build the roster.
 

Sabresfansince1980

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Maybe Casey didn't want to stay for less than what Tage makes. Impossible to say it's a gamble that "wasn't necessary". I'd much rather have Byram than neither Byram nor Mitts
There's ZERO indication that Mitts wouldn't re-sign at a reasonable contract.

I think he should have kept Mittlestadt and signed Matt Roy to ~5x$6.75m

Solves the top 6 and balances out the defense.


I'm talking about when Ullmark was still an RFA. After positing a .915 in 34 games Adams bridged Ullmark to UFA with a 1 year x $2.6m contract.

Adams had the opportunity to lock Ullmark up that off-season and chose not to.

And there's no proof we matched the Boston offer once Ullmark reached UFA. All the rumors at the time were that Ullmark was asking for 6x$6 to stay in Buffalo and not test UFA, and the Sabres offered less. He then accepted 5x$5 from Boston.
Also, as for guys KA could have went out and acquired...Brock Boeser had very low trade value a year or so ago and could've been had for cheap. Not the perfect add, but a great value for the player he is. If I knew he was going to buy-out Skinner, Boeser would make a lot of sense.
 

SabresFanNorthPortFL

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“On paper”

Mitts was the perfect 2/3 line center for $5/6 mil.

Things we don’t know….

Was he part of the complacent part of the locker room?

At some point the team needed to change the dynamics of the top 6/9, because it just wasn’t working. Tage is such a different type of player, more results too, Mitts wasn’t supplanting him. Cozens is younger, bigger, has shown more results and I think has a higher more diverse ceiling. So they wanted to change dynamics….it was him going.

About Adams….he’s a hockey guy, he’s known what has been needed to improve these last 3/4 years. This team was put in “status quo” mode once Covid hit, I will never believe otherwise. It seems so apparent that Adams was given the “ok” the day the season ended….fire bad coach, hire vet coach, buyout skinner, use assets to make team better, focus on speed, good bye dead weight, trade for role players. These are things that haven’t happened since before Covid (4+ years ago).

I hope the turn around works, not sure it will but the team has shown a new focus and commitment the last 4 months. To me, this is really the first offseason that Adams has had the green light…first one.
 
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TheMistyStranger

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He indicated in an interview/statement that he wanted to stay in Buffalo and wasnt offered a contract, this is soley on Adams and his vision on how he wants to build the roster.

In that case, based on the move and what they've done since, they thought he didn't play quick enough for the style of team they want to run with. He was effective at some things, like his board work, but if their goal was to get faster and "harder to play against", I don't think Mitts was it.

I'm also not as down on Byram as some here are. Worst case scenario he's a young, NHL defenseman with a solid draft pedigree that should be able to bring a decent return in a trade.
 

Fezzy126

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May 10, 2017
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“On paper”

Mitts was the perfect 2/3 line center for $5/6 mil.

Things we don’t know….

Was he part of the complacent part of the locker room?

At some point the team needed to change the dynamics of the top 6/9, because it just wasn’t working. Tage is such a different type of player, more results too, Mitts wasn’t supplanting him. Cozens is younger, bigger, has shown more results and I think has a higher more diverse ceiling. So they wanted to change dynamics….it was him going.

About Adams….he’s a hockey guy, he’s known what has been needed to improve these last 3/4 years. This team was put in “status quo” mode once Covid hit, I will never believe otherwise. It seems so apparent that Adams was given the “ok” the day the season ended….fire bad coach, hire vet coach, buyout skinner, use assets to make team better, focus on speed, good bye dead weight, trade for role players. These are things that haven’t happened since before Covid (4+ years ago).

I hope the turn around works, not sure it will but the team has shown a new focus and commitment the last 4 months. To me, this is really the first offseason that Adams has had the green light…first one.

Regarding the bolded, multiple players and executives (including both Adams and Okposo) continually praised mitts for his work ethic. He's had a reputation as a rink rat since his prospect days, and his first comments about the Avs involved how hard they practice and how excited he was about it.

Bottom line, I doubt he was complacent, this feels way more like Adams' desire to restructure the core/architecture of the team. :dunno:
 

TehDoak

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He looked sg it but wasnt paying the price. As mentioned no yop 6 F were traded.

Other UFA wingers were overpaid

One thing Adam's didnt want to do was sign a bad contract

You see what happened to Edmonton. Thst cou ln d happen to buffalo in the next 3 summers if they signed whi you wanted.

You mean the Sabres could make the playoffs every year and win a round or 2 or 3? How horrible.



Yr 1 he us hired after botts is fired. They had no chance to hire/ interview for a gm. Adams in yr 2 might have bern operating in a temp tole thus l IU strning to what the coach wanted and not fo any crazy contracts.

What do you mean they had no chance? He was hired in June 16th of 2020, the draft was in Oct.

The Sabres had plenty of time to re-do the front office.

The problem remains that the Pegula's don't want a strong GM with experience, they want a compliant GM who will listen to him.

In that time after he knows he has the permanent gig and when team finishes sd hes last, th ef y sre going to rebuilt with trading out Eichel, reinhart, and risto

The past 3 season were focused on rebuilding the club

Talking of the playoff drought is blaming Adams for all if it.

He took over a team with a ready built 1st line entering their prime, a starting goaltender, and a 1st OA d-man.

He had a decent prospect pipeline and good young players (Cozens) with an assortment of depth guys.

He owns the idea to rebuild. The framework for a good team was there, they just needed a good coach and some smart team building.

Does he get blamed for the WHOLE drought? No. Does he get the blame for the last 4 years of it? Yes.


I have no issue with the moves given thr depth they have in prospects.


The issue is that famed 'prospect depth' was built on the back of us extending the playoff drought.
In a vacuum, those moves are drastic overpays. We'll see how they actually play out in reality.

The last 2 seasons injuries played a significant factor

You dont plan for 10 game stretches where you lose 4 of your 5 top D or 4 of your 5 top F

Stop. Just stop. The Sabres were barely injured in 2022-23 in terms of man games last and had average level of injuries last year.

EVERY team gets injured. The issue wasn't injuries, the issue was poorly built roster and poor coaching.

Adams when he took over was during Covid and botts bring fired was unexpected.

I think Adams might have bern a pure temp in yr 1 so he was going to just hold the ship. No big signings, and asked the coach for what players he wanted. Only later did he become something more than interim/temp

They knew when the offseason would actually begin when they hired Adams. They had 3 months to hire and install someone. The Pegulas wanted someone to be their ax man and Kevyn obliged. They could have easily fired them themselves and spent the time to hire someone to build out their front office. They wanted their loyal solider as a GM, not an actual GM.
 

toddkaz

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You mean the Sabres could make the playoffs every year and win a round or 2 or 3? How horrible.





What do you mean they had no chance? He was hired in June 16th of 2020, the draft was in Oct.

The Sabres had plenty of time to re-do the front office.

The problem remains that the Pegula's don't want a strong GM with experience, they want a compliant GM who will listen to him.



He took over a team with a ready built 1st line entering their prime, a starting goaltender, and a 1st OA d-man.

He had a decent prospect pipeline and good young players (Cozens) with an assortment of depth guys.

He owns the idea to rebuild. The framework for a good team was there, they just needed a good coach and some smart team building.

Does he get blamed for the WHOLE drought? No. Does he get the blame for the last 4 years of it? Yes.





The issue is that famed 'prospect depth' was built on the back of us extending the playoff drought.
In a vacuum, those moves are drastic overpays. We'll see how they actually play out in reality.



Stop. Just stop. The Sabres were barely injured in 2022-23 in terms of man games last and had average level of injuries last year.

EVERY team gets injured. The issue wasn't injuries, the issue was poorly built roster and poor coaching.



They knew when the offseason would actually begin when they hired Adams. They had 3 months to hire and install someone. The Pegulas wanted someone to be their ax man and Kevyn obliged. They could have easily fired them themselves and spent the time to hire someone to build out their front office. They wanted their loyal solider as a GM, not an actual GM.
Bill Zito interviewed for the GM position here and Pegs passed. Sigh
 
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Irie

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If you created a team consisting solely of guys we got rid of in the past 7 years they would probably win the cup with ease.

I know your post wasn't serious, but it got me thinking. If you took each player and evaluated them by their absolute best season, I think the playoffs would be a possibility.

If you look at the players at their current age and playing level, this is the D

Montour
Faulk
McCabe
Borgen
Ristolainen
C. Miller
Bogosian
Scandela

I don't think you sniff a wildcard spot with that group in the Atlantic.
 
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MarkusKetterer

Shoulda got one game in
I know your post wasn't serious, but it got me thinking. If you took each player and evaluated them by their absolute best season, I think the playoffs would be a possibility.

If you look at the players at their current age and playing level, this is the D

Montour
Faulk
McCabe
Borgen
Ristolainen
C. Miller
Bogosian
Scandela

I don't think you sniff a wildcard spot with that group in the Atlantic.

I will not tolerate McNabb disrespect!
 
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