The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[SundherDome]

Is that how Adams keeps his job? By pointing his finger at everyone else and say they didnt do it either!

I don't think that excuse has saved a GM yet.

I don't know if he keeps his job, we'll see next off-season but it is absolutely not an excuse but a fact. There were tons of GM's that said they were open for business and looking for a top 6 forward and none of them were able to acquire one via trade. If Ehlers, Necas, Terry, were moved to other teams and Adams said the reason he didn't trade for them was "he believes in his team", that's a different story.

 

[Gras]

I don't know if he keeps his job, we'll see next off-season but it is absolutely not an excuse but a fact. There were tons of GM's that said they were open for business and looking for a top 6 forward and none of them were able to acquire one via trade. If Ehlers, Necas, Terry, were moved to other teams and Adams said the reason he didn't trade for them was "he believes in his team", that's a different story.

Dont you know that Adams operates on a vacuum, if he was actually a good GM he would have been able to work a trade to bring McDavid or Drai or Marner onto the team or he could have gotten Stamkos to sign here on a 4mil cap hit.

 

[Jim Bob]

Blue Jackets GM Waddell says Laine has permission to talk to other teams

www.sportsnet.ca

Speaking with Mark Scheig of The Hockey News, Waddell said he wants to work with Laine on finding a trade but won't agree to a move unless it benefits the Blue Jackets.

"I’ve told his representation that we will definitely look at every deal and I’ve given him full permission to talk to teams," Waddell said. "...just because a player wants to (be) traded, two things have to happen. You have to have a willing partner and you also have to have a deal that we both can accept and agree on. And at this time I don’t have that, so I can’t rule out any possibilities at this point."

 

[TehDoak]

So all the other GM's failed too? There wasn't a top 6 forward moved via trade, unless you want to deal with the roller coaster that is Dubois. Not sure what you want Adams to do, he has assembled a much better team within the current climate of FA and the trade market.

C’mon. We have gone through this every summer. You can’t just play the ‘well who should have Adams got, there wasn’t anyone available’

It’s Adams job to add players to his team. He himself stated he wanted a top six forward. And that was before he bought out Skinner.

His solution was to add a guy who scored 14 goals last year, was traded for a 6th round pick, and is extremely injury prone, and had to pay double his market rate to do it.

That’s a bad job as a GM, anyway you slice it. To state you want a top six forward and add, at best, an oft injured 32 year old with one good season in the last 5, is a failed job. It doesn’t matter what other teams did. He stated that ‘everything was on the table’ and came away empty handed.

 

[Jim Bob]

C’mon. We have gone through this every summer. You can’t just play the ‘well who should have Adams got, there wasn’t anyone available’

It’s Adams job to add players to his team. He himself stated he wanted a top six forward. And that was before he bought out Skinner.

His solution was to add a guy who scored 14 goals last year, was traded for a 6th round pick, and is extremely injury prone, and had to pay double his market rate to do it.

That’s a bad job as a GM, anyway you slice it. To state you want a top six forward and add, at best, an oft injured 32 year old with one good season in the last 5, is a failed job. It doesn’t matter what other teams did. He stated that ‘everything was on the table’ and came away empty handed.

Should he have tried to offer Stamkos 5x$10M AAV?

Should he have gone over the top of 2x$4.5M for Tarasenko?

Should he have gone over the top of 4x$6M for Toffoli?

Should he have tried to give Marchessault 6x$7M AAV?

Should he have given up 3 premium pieces to trade for Ehlers who likely wouldn't want to sign an extension here?

Sometimes, trying to do something makes a situation worse than not doing anything.

 

[TageGod]

You mean when Adams walked Ullmark to UFA with a cheap 1 year bridge deal for his final year of RFA? And then Ullmark walked for nothing?

Ullmark was offered an equal deal from us.

 

[TehDoak]

Should he have gone over the top of 2x$4.5M for Tarasenko?

Should he have gone over the top of 4x$6M for Toffoli?

Should he have tried to give Marchessault 6x$7M AAV?

I mean, the low hanging fruit was Maginpane for a 2nd, which we gave up for a 4th liner.

My "Could have" is Teuvo Teravainen, who signed a 3 year, 16M deal. If he offers him a 5 year, 30M deal, does he say no?

And it should be noted that part of the reason its so hard to recruit to Buffalo is Adams poor management of the team.

He's not a recruiting plus.

 

[BFLO]

Should he have tried to offer Stamkos 5x$10M AAV?

Should he have gone over the top of 2x$4.5M for Tarasenko?

Should he have gone over the top of 4x$6M for Toffoli?

Should he have tried to give Marchessault 6x$7M AAV?

Should he have given up 3 premium pieces to trade for Ehlers who likely wouldn't want to sign an extension here?

Sometimes, trying to do something makes a situation worse than not doing anything.

I think he should have kept Mittlestadt and signed Matt Roy to ~5x$6.75m

Solves the top 6 and balances out the defense.

Ullmark was offered an equal deal from us.

I'm talking about when Ullmark was still an RFA. After positing a .915 in 34 games Adams bridged Ullmark to UFA with a 1 year x $2.6m contract.

Adams had the opportunity to lock Ullmark up that off-season and chose not to.

And there's no proof we matched the Boston offer once Ullmark reached UFA. All the rumors at the time were that Ullmark was asking for 6x$6 to stay in Buffalo and not test UFA, and the Sabres offered less. He then accepted 5x$5 from Boston.

 

[toddkaz]

I don't know if he keeps his job, we'll see next off-season but it is absolutely not an excuse but a fact. There were tons of GM's that said they were open for business and looking for a top 6 forward and none of them were able to acquire one via trade. If Ehlers, Necas, Terry, were moved to other teams and Adams said the reason he didn't trade for them was "he believes in his team", that's a different story.

Well then why use an excuse it takes two to tango yet he gets fired because he couldn't get the job done?

I criticize him for his inability to improve the top 6 while others defend him.

Makes no sense to me especially if they miss the playoffs again. Gotta pay up to make the playoffs then so be it.

 

[debaser66]

Should he have tried to offer Stamkos 5x$10M AAV?

Should he have gone over the top of 2x$4.5M for Tarasenko?

Should he have gone over the top of 4x$6M for Toffoli?

Should he have tried to give Marchessault 6x$7M AAV?

Should he have given up 3 premium pieces to trade for Ehlers who likely wouldn't want to sign an extension here?

Sometimes, trying to do something makes a situation worse than not doing anything.

He downgraded the top6 with the trades he made for adding anoter LD puck mover (we already have Dahlin&Power)
A little tweak if a stay at home RD would have sufficed, giving Dahlin & Power more room, especially if MS can't stay healthy.
I rather would have added Mcleod, moved Cozens to wing and keep CM.

Lets hope his plan works out, its a gamble that wasnt necessary. I would have kept at least CM to have some insurance should Thompson or Cozens fail at C, there was enough cap space, you could have always traded CM after this season.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

He downgraded the top6 with the trades he made for adding anoter LD puck mover (we already have Dahlin&Power)
A little tweak if a stay at home RD would have sufficed, giving Dahlin & Power more room, especially if MS can't stay healthy.
I rather would have added Mcleod, moved Cozens to wing and keep CM.

Lets hope his plan works out, its a gamble that wasnt necessary. I would have kept at least CM to have some insurance should Thompson or Cozens fail at C, there was enough cap space, you could have always traded CM after this season.

Maybe Casey didn't want to stay for less than what Tage makes. Impossible to say it's a gamble that "wasn't necessary". I'd much rather have Byram than neither Byram nor Mitts

 

[Jim Bob]

I mean, the low hanging fruit was Maginpane for a 2nd, which we gave up for a 4th liner.

My "Could have" is Teuvo Teravainen, who signed a 3 year, 16M deal. If he offers him a 5 year, 30M deal, does he say no?

And it should be noted that part of the reason its so hard to recruit to Buffalo is Adams poor management of the team.

He's not a recruiting plus.

Mangipane had an 8 team No Trade list and they would have had to give up more than a 2nd to come over the top of the Capitals if they weren't on his list.

And that is a lot to give up for a guy with one year to UFA, a $5.8M cap hit, and who had 40 points last season.

5x$6M for TT wouldn't be too bad if it means they also didn't sign Zucker. But, that does make next summer trickier.

 

[thewookie1]

Well then why use an excuse it takes two to tango yet he gets fired because he couldn't get the job done?

I criticize him for his inability to improve the top 6 while others defend him.

Makes no sense to me especially if they miss the playoffs again. Gotta pay up to make the playoffs then so be it.

Ehlers and Necas were never traded.

The only Top 6 forward to be moved via trade was Mangiapane and who's to say he didn't just like Washington more.

You can't force a team to make a trade and paying through the nose to get mediocre upgrades is how you end up perpetuating an endless drought even further.

 

[Jim Bob]

Ehlers and Necas were never traded.

The only Top 6 forward to be moved via trade was Mangiapane and who's to say he didn't just like Washington more.

You can't force a team to make a trade and paying through the nose to get mediocre upgrades is how you end up perpetuating an endless drought even further.

Mangiapane is a borderline top 6 guy.

He was 7th amongst Calgary forwards in TOI/GP last season, 6th in EV TOI/GP, 10th in PP TOI/GP, & 7th in SH TOI/GP.

And he has one NHL season with 20+ goals and one NHL season with 45+ points. And he's averaged 23 goals and 47 points per 82 games played over the past three seasons.

 

[BFLO]

Ehlers and Necas were never traded.

The only Top 6 forward to be moved via trade was Mangiapane and who's to say he didn't just like Washington more.

You can't force a team to make a trade and paying through the nose to get mediocre upgrades is how you end up perpetuating an endless drought even further.

Hmmmmmm

We didn’t sign Reinhart because he didn’t want to be here long term after Botterill tried to bridge him twice. Not much else to see here.

Botterill bridged Reinhart once.

ADAMS bridged Reinhart the second time.

So sick of this narrative that it's Botterill's fault when it was actually Adams.

Adams became GM June 16th 2020

 

[TheMistyStranger]

I think you're underrating Beck Malenstyn and it is clear the Sabres needed to get better on the NHL roster. Additionally, they need to deal with their glut of same-same prospects. In a vacuum it looks like an overpayment, but I think the Savoie trade is more likely a win-win deal. Add in the potential concerns with Savoie's shoulder in your valuation as well.

 

[Dubi Doo]

It’s very likely that he’ll be better than everyone who was minding the net in Ottawa last year. He doesn’t have to be Vezina contention good for them to help the Sens out.

I'm not sold on them. Their defense likely got worse, and their coaching hire leaves a lot to be desired.

Hmmmmmm
View attachment 901388
View attachment 901390

Botterill bridged Reinhart once.

ADAMS bridged Reinhart the second time.

So sick of this narrative that it's Botterill's fault when it was actually Adams.

Adams became GM June 16th 2020
View attachment 901393

Beck is an interesting player. The man had comical defensive deployments last season, and still put up 21 points. It's also interesting that the 4th line of Washington had a big impact on their playoff push, and Beck played his role to perfection on that line. I also watched him, and the rest of the Bears physically bully the Amerks two years ago in the playoffs.

Washington did NOT want to trade him, so Buffalo ante'd up and got a deal done. I'd say Adams/Ruff targeted a player they felt the team desperately needed and did what it took to get a deal done rather than throwing away assets for a mediocre player.

Again, his defensive usage was comical- it's completely reasonable to believe he could put up more points with easier usage. I can see him becoming a good third line checking option, but even if he settles in as a 4th line energy bug who tips the ice from the D zone to the O zone and puts up 15-20 pts a year- I wouldn't call that a mediocre player at all. Someone who plays their role to perfection has a spot on my team any day. I'd bet you Boston fans wouldn't call Paille a mediocre player.

Is Mcleod really a mediocre player? He played up the LU on a deep Edmonton team and looks to be settling in as a defensive C with a ton of speed. If he becomes our Hecht, then calling him mediocre is hyperbole.

In all honestly, Mcleod and Beck are players whose stock may continue rising over the next few years. I'm fine with dealing assets for players who may fit into unique roles on this team and thrive.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Hmmmmmm
View attachment 901388
View attachment 901390

Botterill bridged Reinhart once.

ADAMS bridged Reinhart the second time.

So sick of this narrative that it's Botterill's fault when it was actually Adams.

Adams became GM June 16th 2020
View attachment 901393

You do realize that Reinhart and Ullmark filed for arbitration, their 1yr contracts were signed to avoid the hearings. Adams didn't have a lot of time between taking over for Botterill and their scheduled hearings

 

[jc17]

In April y'all will be saying what I am saying or when they miss the playoffs for 14 years you will still be claiming the tango thing?

I'm so sick of hearing about the length of the drought. A GM who letting "14 years" dictate every decision would just dig a deeper hole.

I don't think it should be completely disregarded. Maybe you make some sacrifices of futures for current help....like trading a 2nd rounder for a depth player or a prospect with a high ceiling for a good 3rd line center with a lower ceiling.

We're in hockey hell, but I have no interest in "upgrading" to hockey purgatory for the next decade because of nonsensical moves brought about by pressure of things that happened a decade ago.

 

[jc17]

In all honestly, Malenstyn and Beck are players whose stock may continue rising over the next few years.

That's not their only similarity!

 

[Dubi Doo]

That's not their only similarity!

Oops! Too much typing! Fixed it.

 

[BFLO]

You do realize that Reinhart and Ullmark filed for arbitration, their 1yr contracts were signed to avoid the hearings. Adams didn't have a lot of time between taking over for Botterill and their scheduled hearings

You make it sound like their hearings were already scheduled when Adams took over? Except that's false. Adams took over June 16th. The players could not opt for arbitration until Oct 10th and the scheduling for the hearings took place Oct 13th.

26 Players Elect Salary Arbitration

The National Hockey League Players’ Association (NHLPA) has announced the 26 players who have elected Salary Arbitration.

www.nhlpa.com

2020 Salary Arbitration schedule

Salary Arbitration hearings will be held from Oct. 20 to Nov. 8, 2020.

www.nhlpa.com

Adams had 4 months between when he took over and when the players could file for arbitration. They filed for arbitration because Adams was low balling them, not Botterill. The 1 year contracts were compromises to avoid arbitration.

Adams could have locked them both up long term to reasonable deals that off season. He chose not to.

 

[thewookie1]

Hmmmmmm
View attachment 901388
View attachment 901390

Botterill bridged Reinhart once.

ADAMS bridged Reinhart the second time.

So sick of this narrative that it's Botterill's fault when it was actually Adams.

Adams became GM June 16th 2020
View attachment 901393

Botts was in a far better position to extend Reinhart than Adams was if only due to COVID hitting that offseason. Nobody was going to get money that offseason.

I'm so sick of hearing about the length of the drought. A GM who letting "14 years" dictate every decision would just dig a deeper hole.

I don't think it should be completely disregarded. Maybe you make some sacrifices of futures for current help....like trading a 2nd rounder for a depth player or a prospect with a high ceiling for a good 3rd line center with a lower ceiling.

We're in hockey hell, but I have no interest in "upgrading" to hockey purgatory for the next decade because of nonsensical moves brought about by pressure of things that happened a decade ago.

But that's the thing; what we did with McCloud and Malenstyn was overpayment but still within the realm of sanity. The price for Ehlers was higher than Eichel's value. Thus its bonkers to even fathom it at that price. There isn't a chance in hell I would trade 2 Top Prospects, our 1st and a roster player for a different roster player. You can't just spend assets willy nilly with the hope of making the playoffs.

 

[toddkaz]

Ehlers and Necas were never traded.

The only Top 6 forward to be moved via trade was Mangiapane and who's to say he didn't just like Washington more.

You can't force a team to make a trade and paying through the nose to get mediocre upgrades is how you end up perpetuating an endless drought even further.

Who cares about Ehlers and Necas. People seem to be fixated on two players. There is more than two players in the NHL.

It's mind boggling that this team missed the playoffs for 14 straight years and people still make excuses for management

 

[DJN21]

I personally think Beck is gonna be fine and we will all love him by game 3 and the rest will be history we barely remember.

I don't see any rational way Mcleod does the same. What are we honestly projecting him for? 10-20? 15-25? (I think thats the highest end I'd go with any reasonable projection point wise)

The only thing at all that makes sense in this one is the Sabres knew his shoulder was shot. You Can say other GM's soured on him which is fine, then keep him and send out Rosen or kulich for a better return than mcleod and hope you were wrong about Savoie.

This trade won't make sense to me until I'm proven wrong but even then it's cool because it meant we finally did something right lol. Idk, I dont mean to keep going down the same rabbit hole I'm just perplexed at the lack of leverage in a trade. Look at Edmonton now? Cap hell and possibly losing its former 1st round picks but we were just like "Cool have one of ours!"

The only other time a trade has been so odd to me in recent memory was the 1st for Lehner when Ottawa had 3 goalies already under contract and I may be misremembering but no ahl options left and we just outbid ourselves for no apparent reason.

I think Mcleod will be a solid addition and I'm not shitting on the kid personally at all the deal just leaves me perplexed.