The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[joshjull]

I'm late to Helenius talk a few pages back but if people are so high on him saying hes NHL ready and could make the team out of camp then why did he fall to us?

I think it’s mostly driven by Ollie Jokinen’s comments about him being 1 of the 4 centers for Buffalo this season. I doubt those comments matter when it comes to the plans Adams/Ruff have for this season.

 

[Jacob582]

I'm not a fan of trading for Laine, but I keep having this thought:

Columbus:
- Laine (15% retained)
- 2nd round 2025

Buffalo:
- Conditional 2nd round 2025 (converts to a top-ten protected 1st if Laine plays 55 games in a season)
- Greenway

Protects both teams. Maybe add another pick if Laine is worth more than that.

I just don't think there is a team out there that will give a 1st round pick without heavy salary retention or sending a bunch of salary back.

 

[Jacob582]

This is complete nonsense. That policy led to many young players breaking out who are key pieces, a very quick rebuild and almost making the playoffs in year 2. The mistake was Adams not changing his team building approach once the goal changed from rebuild/development to making the playoffs.

complete nonsense? To criticize a team's approach who only almost made the playoffs?

 

[Sabre the Win]

I think it’s mostly driven by Ollie Jokinen’s comments about him being 1 of the 4 centers for Buffalo this season. I doubt those comments matter when it comes to the plans Adams/Ruff have for this season.

I guess with injuries its a very real possibility, I just don't see who he's beating out? Krebs?

 

[Matt Ress]

I guess with injuries its a very real possibility, I just don't see who he's beating out? Krebs?

I think he has some other prospects to beat out as well, namely Kulich whom they are pushing as a center and that part of his development could be the reason he didn't see a little more opportunity in Buffalo last season. Can't have too many Cs so maybe they're just building that flexibility with Kulich. We'll find out. I'm getting off topic

 

[joshjull]

complete nonsense? To criticize a team's approach who only almost made the playoffs?

Yes it is. The decision to rebuild with youth and focus on internal growth was incredibly successful. Part of that was not having that youth blocked by vets and letting them get tons of development time at the NHL level. It was the underpinning of a rebuild that did surprisingly well in just two years.


The idea that taking this approach was “pure idiocy”, as that poster asserted, is complete nonsense.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Yes it is. The decision to rebuild with youth and focus on internal growth was incredibly successful. Part of that was not having that youth blocked by vets and letting them get tons of development time at the NHL level. It was the underpinning of a rebuild that did surprisingly well in just two years.


The idea that taking this approach was “pure idiocy”, as that poster asserted, is complete nonsense.

It hasn't been successful at all. Your post defines "complete nonsense" to me.

Almost every media figure, both national and local, who follow the Sabres at all say Adams is on the hot seat and has one more crack at it before he gets fired. Sounds much closer to a failure than a success to me.

 

[Jacob582]

It hasn't been successful at all. Your post defines "complete nonsense" to me.

Almost every media figure, both national and local, who follow the Sabres at all say Adams is on the hot seat and has one more crack at it before he gets fired. Sounds much closer to a failure than a success to me.

In fairness to joshjull, he did state in a previous post the mistake Adams made: "not changing his team building approach once the goal changed from rebuild/development to making the playoffs."

I just feel that since the team regressed it might call in question the whole approach, not just Adams refusal to change on the fly.

Would it be worse if Peterka, Quinn, Krebs and Cozens spent more time in the AHL and we added vet leaders like Foligno and Martinook (off waivers!)?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

In fairness to joshjull, he did state in a previous post the mistake Adams made: "not changing his team building approach once the goal changed from rebuild/development to making the playoffs."

I just feel that since the team regressed it might call in question the whole approach, not just Adams refusal to change on the fly.

Would it be worse if Peterka, Quinn, Krebs and Cozens spent more time in the AHL and we added vet leaders like Foligno and Martinook (off waivers!)?

Which was literally the biggest and most effective portent part of rebuilding. He completely f***ed up his biggest decision.

His diagnosis is basically the same as the post he called “complete nonsense.” As usual, he’s just looking to start arguments over the slightest of disagreements.

—————————————————————
Here’s a cool video I found on Reddit:

“Hey guys was going through youtube this morning and came across this video, Beck and NAK are heavily mentioned and the video goes into great detail about their deployments on ice. Great 15min watch, think ill be giving this channel a few more views, very factual and analytical. And even has a shoutout to a former sabre.”

 

[BUCKSHOT]

—————————————————————
Here’s a cool video I found on Reddit:

“Hey guys was going through youtube this morning and came across this video, Beck and NAK are heavily mentioned and the video goes into great detail about their deployments on ice. Great 15min watch, think ill be giving this channel a few more views, very factual and analytical. And even has a shoutout to a former sabre.”

Thanks for (finding) posting this .....

here is one .....

 

[joshjull]

Which was literally the biggest and most effective portent part of rebuilding. He completely f***ed up his biggest decision.

His diagnosis is basically the same as the post he called “complete nonsense.” As usual, he’s just looking to start arguments over the slightest of disagreements.

You seem incredibly triggered because I said something positive in relation to Adams. So much so that you keep attacking me personally, don’t really dispute what I posted and still don’t really understand what I’m talking about. You clearly made the mistake of assuming I’m talking about Adams entire tenure as being extremely successful. Otherwise, why post something as ridiculously obvious as Adams being on the hot seat in your previous post? No shit he’s on the hot seat.



This following from @sabremike is what I took issue with because its simply not true….

“The whole "we don't want vets in spots blocking kids" thing was pure idiocy because it led to a roster of kids getting their heads kicked in flailing away and drowning at this level instead of being in Rochester”

The funniest part of this is that process helped create the Tage he loves and posts a million memes about. Oddly you and others have forgotten this. Mitts was the 1C with Skinner to start the season and Tage was effectively viewed as the 3C experiment. After Mitts injury in game one, Cozens takes his place and R2 becomes the 3C. It took until about November for Tage to get a shot at 1C and he never looked back.


No matter how much you rant against it, the first two years of the rebuild were very successful for what they were focused on(rebuilding our talent pool) Pointing this out and that the approach they took to do it was successful is hardly the “slightest of disagreements”. Believe it or not you can hold more than one thought about Adams tenure at the same time. He can simultaneously be very successful in the first phase of building up talent. While also failing badly on the next phase… building out a playoff roster. Which puts him in the hot seat.

 

[sabremike]

You seem incredibly triggered because I said something positive in relation to Adams. So much so that you keep attacking me personally, don’t really dispute what I posted and still don’t really understand what I’m talking about. You clearly made the mistake of assuming I’m talking about Adams entire tenure as being extremely successful. Otherwise, why post something as ridiculously obvious as Adams being on the hot seat in your previous post? No shit he’s on the hot seat.



This following from @sabremike is what I took issue with because its simply not true….

“The whole "we don't want vets in spots blocking kids" thing was pure idiocy because it led to a roster of kids getting their heads kicked in flailing away and drowning at this level instead of being in Rochester”

The funniest part of this is that process helped create the Tage he loves and posts a million memes about. Oddly you and others have forgotten this. Mitts was the 1C with Skinner to start the season and Tage was effectively viewed as the 3C experiment. After Mitts injury in game one, Cozens takes his place and R2 becomes the 3C. It took until about November for Tage to get a shot at 1C and he never looked back.


No matter how much you rant against it, the first two years of the rebuild were very successful for what they were focused on(rebuilding our talent pool) Pointing this and the approach they took to do it was successful is hardly the “slightest of disagreements”. Believe it or not you can hold more than one thought about Adams tenure at the same time. He can simultaneously be very successful in the first phase of building up talent. While also failing badly on the next phase… building out a playoff roster. Which puts him in the hot seat.

In fact Tage WAS tossed into the NHL when he didn't belong there with disastrous consequences. His career was nearly destroyed before it even began.

Also missing the playoffs by fewer points than we used to is not success it is failure. The idea that 22-23 was a success is an absolute joke (moreso in hindsight) because they practically were being handed the playoff spot and totally f***ed up the most golden of golden opportunities. If the players were made to understand they had failed maybe they don't come to camp resting on their nonexistent laurels and be completely unprepared and out of shape for the start of the season. Maybe if the roster wasn't a bunch of kids they wouldn't have constantly fallen to pieces when faced with any adversity.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Which was literally the biggest and most effective portent part of rebuilding. He completely f***ed up his biggest decision.

His diagnosis is basically the same as the post he called “complete nonsense.” As usual, he’s just looking to start arguments over the slightest of disagreements.

—————————————————————
Here’s a cool video I found on Reddit:

“Hey guys was going through youtube this morning and came across this video, Beck and NAK are heavily mentioned and the video goes into great detail about their deployments on ice. Great 15min watch, think ill be giving this channel a few more views, very factual and analytical. And even has a shoutout to a former sabre.”

This video just makes me wish they could have gotten Dowd even more than I already did.

 

[Irie]

This following from @sabremike is what I took issue with because its simply not true….

“The whole "we don't want vets in spots blocking kids" thing was pure idiocy because it led to a roster of kids getting their heads kicked in flailing away and drowning at this level instead of being in Rochester”

The funniest part of this is that process helped create the Tage he loves and posts a million memes about. Oddly you and others have forgotten this. Mitts was the 1C with Skinner to start the season and Tage was effectively viewed as the 3C experiment. After Mitts injury in game one, Cozens takes his place and R2 becomes the 3C. It took until about November for Tage to get a shot at 1C and he never looked back.


No matter how much you rant against it, the first two years of the rebuild were very successful for what they were focused on(rebuilding our talent pool) Pointing this and the approach they took to do it was successful is hardly the “slightest of disagreements”. Believe it or not you can hold more than one thought about Adams tenure at the same time. He can simultaneously be very successful in the first phase of building up talent. While also failing badly on the next phase… building out a playoff roster. Which puts him in the hot seat.

There was some truth to it though.

There is a middle ground between "don't want to block the kids" and filling out the roster with bargain bin players, Cody Eakin, Drake Caggiula, John Hayden, Vinny Hinostroza, Rielly Sheahan, Robert Hagg, Will Butcher, Mark Physyk, etc.

Truly "blocking the kids" would have meant having zero spots for the youngsters due to the team being filled with solid performing veterans that would have probably been well paid.

"Blocking the kids" was strictly a smokescreen narrative they ran as an excuse for pinching pennies and icing a team as far below the cap floor as they possibly could.

They have drafted well. The future is bright, but it is almost universally accepted that this team could have benefitted from having a few more vets to fill the role-player spots and the kids would have likely been better off for it had Adams spent some of his massive available cap on help in areas that would not have blocked anyone.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

There was some truth to it though.

There is a middle ground between "don't want to block the kids" and filling out the roster with bargain bin players, Cody Eakin, Drake Caggiula, John Hayden, Vinny Hinostroza, Rielly Sheahan, Robert Hagg, Will Butcher, Mark Physyk, etc.

Truly "blocking the kids" would have meant having zero spots for the youngsters due to the team being filled with solid performing veterans that would have probably been well paid.

"Blocking the kids" was strictly a smokescreen narrative they ran as an excuse for pinching pennies and icing a team as far below the cap floor as they possibly could.

They have drafted well. The future is bright, but it is almost universally accepted that this team could have benefitted from having a few more vets to fill the role-player spots and the kids would have likely been better off for it had Adams spent some of his massive available cap on help in areas that would not have blocked anyone.

In fairness, using terrible vets on D for your point is dumb. Only because the Sabres had no NHL potential players in their system then, unless Laaksonen stepped up.

 

[Irie]

In fairness, using terrible vets on D for your point is dumb. Only because the Sabres had no NHL potential players in their system then, unless Laaksonen stepped up.

But isn't the argument that the sole goal of the front office's plan was to not block the kids?

I am saying that they could have spent some money and acquired a couple of better vets and still not blocked any kids, which is the middle.ground I was referring to. That would have been the better team building approach, and is what most analysts have said and I think the original poster was implying. The block the kids narrative was just an excuse to cover the effort to save money when the org was losing cash by the truckload. The middle ground would have made everyone on both sides of the argument happy, but it would have cost Pegula more money.

 

[debaser66]

This is complete nonsense. That policy led to many young players breaking out who are key pieces, a very quick rebuild and almost making the playoffs in year 2. The mistake was Adams not changing his team building approach once the goal changed from rebuild/development to making the playoffs.

His mistakes started already at the deadline in 2023.
A smart proactive GM would have changed his approach and added a key piece to get them in the playoffs.
Instead he added Stillman (probably attributed to the gutted scouting department; did they actually do anything to improve in that aera?)

 

[joshjull]

His mistakes started already at the deadline in 2023.
A smart proactive GM would have changed his approach and added a key piece to get them in the playoffs.
Instead he added Stillman (probably attributed to the gutted scouting department; did they actually do anything to improve in that aera?)

Thats fair. I think the main guy available who would have made an upgrade at the time was Chychrun. But Adams didn’t want to pay the asking price.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Thats fair. I think the main guy available who would have made an upgrade at the time was Chychrun. But Adams didn’t want to pay the asking price.

Smartly, you might add.

 

[Jim Bob]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1821200879225319609

 

[Gras]

His mistakes started already at the deadline in 2023.
A smart proactive GM would have changed his approach and added a key piece to get them in the playoffs.
Instead he added Stillman (probably attributed to the gutted scouting department; did they actually do anything to improve in that aera?)

Jordan Greenway says hello

 

[zenthusiast]

It was incredibly predictable at the time that while Greenway did marginally improve the team, it wasn’t enough to push them over the edge.

They should have added a defenseman that had any business being in the nhl and a middle six forward (NN), but alas

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

I think your argument here is somewhere in the middle about Adams and company.

1. Pandemic did a number…no money coming in.
2. Eichel, ROR, Kane, Reinhart, etc did a number on us by failures by team and failures as individuals.
3. Between Ruff/Regier and the rehiring of Ruff the organization hired all the wrong GM’s and coaches. First timers galore…just didn’t work.

I believe Adams over the last few years has actually tried to bring in players that were not the Cody Eakins of the hockey world…..and to his credit wouldn’t pay the outrageous price, couldn’t get past a no trade clause, or signed somewhere else. It seems like he identified a certain player he wanted (let’s use Pece) and when it didn’t happen, he didn’t choose a lesser player just to get someone else. We’ve been rumored in on decent players, and I believe we have. To his credit he didn’t put use further behind by getting wrong players or paying too much,

This off-season things have been different. Good on Adams.

 

[jc17]

Thanks for (finding) posting this .....

here is one .....

Rory Fitzpatrick on the top PP in must win game 6 OT

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Jordan Greenway says hello

Who is still bad. No matter how ignorant and or lazy some people think that point is.