The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[K8fool]

A good straightforward discussion on the baal moloch boards. Does size matter in the nhl.


Beware,
long winded drivel from a trying not to egotistical shthead that is disowned by his wife/mate and probably shouldn't be listend to. May your nights and your tomorrow e constantly improving at whatever rate you are capable of believing , knowing and seeing this improvement w a certainty that is as solid as stone.


Yes absolutely at first.

This was added a couple days later and may change meaning to anyone reacting to it


Simple answer , size matters in direct correlation to talents and leverage , imagine what rough/ruff could do w skinner os he entered his body. Might be one of the greatest to play the game, ... right before some scumbag biker dressed in a philly jersey pucked him up and broke him in two , and now hes talked abouy in hushed tone like bo jackson running 25 mph horizontally on tje centerfield wall ..

. Trick question as mcsorely smashes me i. The face for tripping wayne on the last shift on purpose. And f king did . Having guys big or small that sre emotionally connected and respect the team they are protecting And itx KNOWN throughout the league they are relentless AND will successfully (every time or die trying) kick the SH$T out any punk like Trouba or whoever that DARES to cheap shot and injure anyone on this team.

I dont know how big McSorely was Dave Semenko but i do know Wayne owes a third of his points and the cups to these guys. The team first attitide was a true identity til thr tank. Even Ryan miller and marty biron took pride in their having the backs of their guys . ( We had w Korab and Shoenfeld, Spencer Shack etc and were a winning team in buffalo w Real friends like Rob Ray to Lindy Ruff as these guys were mostly not cheap like slee foot coward stone types. ) Imlach built our tough attitude and sabres identity which he knew was truly built enough thaf Rick Martin was throwing his weight and Danny gare was a killer so in the middle he sacrificed shack for for rene robert and later. We sacrificed a perimeter highly talented Nancy boys like turgeon and phil housley for lafintaine tgat risked his health to win ( forgot who we acquired for phil ) Hopefully we are moving back towards a complete team the league can play exciting fast tough but honorable fast hockey or die in a bloodbath because the tea
Is always amped about mutual protection and respect. so everyone would never hesitate if a CHEESE ball like lucic entered the home sandbox. It would be funny not the breaking point of a once proud frachise w an awesome reputation that understood the passion play US wonderful blue collar hard partying scum came to see, win or lose. We never left embarrassed . Never.

Sorry back to big and small short and fat... don't drink estrogen brittle boned man tits plastic water bottles. Only glass in our homes and , no natural flavor etc , no parasites regularly cleanse w albendazole, chloroquine and ivermectin etc.

Ruff isnt that big, neither was Ray but... relentless .. easy to trust w the franchise even if frail as he throw. His last tooth and rub yr cocky face Trouba in his depends if its his last gasp to degend the crest.


Biggie smalls.
Lemieux overpowers gretsky and perrault the first couple meetings gil but to a greater degree gretsky could outhink and solve and sucker players bigger than them and mcdavid the same proved , maybe because they were small, that their sheer will and strength may beat lemieux in the long run , lindros was a supremely talented goon compared to lemieux , both were just huge targets for the true scum of the league. .
Growing up small prepared mcdavid and gretsky to light up those less used glands to anticipate. I think lemieux learned the most and his best years rivaled anyone, Gil was the first and if he didn't smoke two packs and actually enjoyed his life he proved he was the best w the highest ceiling when he was insulted in Canada series around Exposito and lafleur
Whatever size leverage , third eye anticipation, seeing the future ( which benson has a bit , not in same class but similar growth w tage and quinn. , I shouldn't put theze three hete at all , apologies but obviously inferior but thise three w Levi have rare traits of anticipation and might approach the level of kucherov if they were relentless in heart and sheer will.
I think gretsky and and mcdavid have sheer competitive will and no FEAR or hesitation , no self preservation to go with the grace they possess. Neither had the physical strength to go witn that quick of mind. Of Mario which he proved in probably the best season

The real question tp the answer lies in those players above whether to bulild a winning team w more size and how much does intimidation win. Many many Stanley cups , two thirds were won afyer gretsky by the cheatiest dirtiest scum willing to injure the great talents like draisaitl, mcdavid sid the not as much of a wuss as we believe Tampa won because their gretsky koochis off in the head as he and a couple of his mates injured their rivals in season and early in series if give. The chance , like stone and pietrangelo are totally scum enough to win. Size didn't help but the oilerz had two reasons they won
Ruff is right to construct the line up as his is and hopefully what's left at deadline
The oilers had marty mcsorley. He's worth a first round , malestyn only cost a second. . Maroon was not as cheap as kucherov but he was the strongest on the ice alot , messier and coffey were like that cheap but tough d that helped the caps bully their way to One.
Id rather watch honor win as it does only one third of the Cups. Lately. Evil has won out the pasr two thrdz since the nineties or petty rigged and the lame like the Dallas game or the aabres humbling themselves before the hockey gods on khufus ship by parting the clouds that gathered from dumping the combined heart of briere and Drury ( both SMALL btw) and compounding that criminality by selling our soul piece by piece that was finalized by jettisoned miler as the city is ready ring lucics neck or anyone else that tries to intimidate of fook w anyone on Lindys roster.

I was committed to never watching rigged pro sports anymore, especially w players on the Bills and sabres probably making more yearly than the cities working class combined. That fact is enough to boycott if they fook w the outcomes. As they have. I must be sadistic or bored but every one of us trauma victims living or passing thru buffalo or the lamd of zerox/kodak deserves a real unfooked w double chance at two ships as the rowers arw as talented as ever

 

[DJN21]

There is nothing disingenuous about @Chainshot pointing out Cirelli is Tampa’s 2C, not their 3C.

He never made sense as a 3C target for that reason. He’s not a 3C and Tampa wouldn’t be looking to move him.

From Tampa’s roster building perspective, it would make no sense for them to create a hole at 2C to keep a top 6 winger.

Tampa already set the table for their offseason when they acquired McDonagh in late May. Once it was clear Stamkos wasnt signing whatever deal they had offered. They traded Sergachev, acquired Geuntzels rights and extended him with a 7y @ 9mil per deal. That was in a span of 3 days 6/29 to 7/1.

Moving on from Cirelli wasn’t in their plans.


You draft as much talent as possible for two reasons

They turn into a roster player. Or they can be used to acquire a roster player.

The trade was a perfectly normal use of the assets we have. You do realize every team in the NHL will make deals like this. even ones far more successful than we are.

Its almost like I said in my post Tampa pivoted on from Stamkos and rightfully so...oh wait I did.

The idea of cirelli being available was predicated on them wanting to keep Stamkos because both options weren't really possible.

No one in the hockey world at first predicted a sergachev trade, Stamkos walking, and a guentzel sign and trade so again kudos to Tampa for pivoting and making smart moves yet again.

The cirelli drum beating was happening way before any of that occurred which is what I find odd to attack. People were looking at him as a potential target before ANY of that happened. Granted given the aftermath obviously the point you are making stands up and frankly I think Tampa once again pulled a magic trick and fixed their situation and came out better for it.


As for the draft portion your opinion is up to you to back up. My memory isn't as good as it used to be so I may be wrong here but what examples can you provide of a team trading a top 10 pick 2 years later for a guy who at best is a 3rd line center? No wait nvm. You don't have to answer. You once again ignored what I said. I said with top picks you take bpa but with later picks you try and draft and develop guys like 3c's. And im upset we haven't taken that approach. Your retort was teams regularly trade top 10 picks 2 years later for borderline 3rd line players....

Ooookay. Unless you are a playoff team year in and out and have the luxury of putting your chips in id bet there's not much evidence to back that claim up.

 

[Djp]

The idea that the cost to acquire a solid, young 3C on a good contract would be cheaper if acquired sooner makes zero sense to me.

Guys like McLeod are never going to be shopped or available from their respective teams. If you want to acquire one, you are going to always have to pay through the nose.

The fault in Adam's plan isn't in the trade cost, it is in spending half a dozen high picks on small, homogeneous offensive players and not using any of those picks on guys of McLeod's ilk.

Two things to remember

His first draft was 2020 and he didnt have many draft picks.

His second was 2021. If he had say drafted a 3c type draft he might he just starting their ELC ot 1 yr in. Not ready for nhl.

They wanted a bridge in that future development

Even drafting one you are unsure what they will develop into. Center or wing? Top 2C? 4C?

I mean, Wennberg was available for just a contract, and he has shown more offensive production.

Considering we are what, 8M under the cap after projected contracts for UPL and Malenstyn, I don't think cap was really a consideration here.

I think McLeod was probably the 6th or 7th option and he had to pay through the nose because he whiffed on every other player he wanted. These types of centers are typically available at the deadline for a 2nd/3rd round pick...and during the offseason, less than that, especially if its a meh contract in a tight year.

And if anything, we probably didn't want another young forward....you probably want a veteran 3C given the makeup of our team currently.

But...Buffalo has needed a good defensive two way C since Adams became the GM. They've needed one since RoR got traded. He certainly has had an opportunity to get one previously, especially considering he could have taken on a meh contract and had more draft capital than you could realistically ever use (but he did). The fact that the only attempts to solve the issue were Eakin and Jost in 4 years....just a bad job of identifying and addressing needs by the front office as a whole.

You act like Adans did nothing. UFAs have the freedom to choose where to sign.

Eakin and Jost were not 3C.

He want as 3C who also could fit the cap structure. $6M+ on s 3C is too much unless one of the top 2 is on an ELC

If you're gonna overpay which we did....then do it right and overpay for the superior player.

Also your cough is disingenuous, the reasoning for Cirelli being potentially available was because Tampa needed money to keep Stamkos a lifer (and hell keep Sergachev at that). Oh and potentially replenish a barren pipeline of prospects. I give them credit for the pivot they figured out and not committing to Stamkos longish term, but the logic was there...you can't look back after the dust has settled and sneeze or cough at the idea....

To echo what some above me has said Adams gets no marks of being unable to reasonably obtain a viable 3c when he's drafted literally everything but THAT. If you have a glaring whole in your roster or pipeline thats when you draft for it especially with later picks. Obviously with your 1st BPA is a viable choice but we've pissed away later round picks like it was nothing if we miss, and NOW WE ARE PISSING AWAY HIGHER ROUND PICKS like its nothing because we suck so much and draft so high and people are flippant about it.

What 3C should he have drafted?

Since they drafted Savoie what has happened?

Sure Peterka and Quinn had very good seasons in Rochester but they hadn't done much in the nhl.

Kulich appears to be better
They got Benson and Helenius who both fell. Wahlberg fits a role
Ostlund also seems yo br decent
Then there is Rosen

Its a crowded field now. 3C are hard to get.

Its almost like I said in my post Tampa pivoted on from Stamkos and rightfully so...oh wait I did.

The idea of cirelli being available was predicated on them wanting to keep Stamkos because both options weren't really possible.

No one in the hockey world at first predicted a sergachev trade, Stamkos walking, and a guentzel sign and trade so again kudos to Tampa for pivoting and making smart moves yet again.

Actually sergashev trsde was possible given his contrsct and control kicked in on July 1. And they needed space

The cirelli drum beating was happening way before any of that occurred which is what I find odd to attack. People were looking at him as a potential target before ANY of that happened. Granted given the aftermath obviously the point you are making stands up and frankly I think Tampa once again pulled a magic trick and fixed their situation and came out better for it.


As for the draft portion your opinion is up to you to back up. My memory isn't as good as it used to be so I may be wrong here but what examples can you provide of a team trading a top 10 pick 2 years later for a guy who at best is a 3rd line center? No wait nvm. You don't have to answer. You once again ignored what I said. I said with top picks you take bpa but with later picks you try and draft and develop guys like 3c's. And im upset we haven't taken that approach. Your retort was teams regularly trade top 10 picks 2 years later for borderline 3rd line players....

Ooookay. Unless you are a playoff team year in and out and have the luxury of putting your chips in id bet there's not much evidence to back that claim up.

I've seen such moves happen. Iy might have not happened as t this point.

But again it comes down to buffalo having alot of picks/ drafted players all coming at the time where some will get hurt in development.

Next summer or thr summer after therr will likely be trades of some players for some younger prospects or picks or you target as player missing.

Buffalo has what..2+3+3+2+1=10 F drafted in 1st/2nd round since 2020 prior to the Savoie trade. Some will need to get moved.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

There was a time when Eichel and ROR were on the team….wow, we must of been awesome. Nope because 3/4 of the rest of the team were not nhlers, nor was the coaching staff and front office.

We just jettisoned a third of the team that were over the hill, or over their heads…and that includes the coaches.

This is (on paper at least) the most complete team and staff we’ve had for over a decade….for over a decade….and we’re complaining that Adams used a 2nd round pick to bring in an important piece??? And we’re complaining about the pick that was a “freebie” because we moved back a couple spots AND got the guy we probably wanted?!?!

As far as Savoie goes, he’d still be here if Benson didn’t fall to us…..and there is no way in heck that you’re a competitive team with both Savoie n Benson in your top six….they’re both midgets…and no Gretzky’s either.

Most complete lineup in years….let’s get excited. And let’s also give thanks that he didn’t give out a stupid contract to actually bring in said 3C. Oh, btw, what did it cost the Leafs to get rid of 1 year of Marleau??? So yeah, McLeod cost a premium to get but there isn’t any residual cost too.

Stupid to be arguing over this slight overpayment when looking at how much better this roster/team is from top to bottom, coaches and prospects!!!

 

[Kublakhan]

so everyone think we are set now?

 

[Tatanka]

so everyone think we are set now?

Set for what?

 

[TehDoak]

You act like Adans did nothing. UFAs have the freedom to choose where to sign.

Eakin and Jost were not 3C.

He want as 3C who also could fit the cap structure. $6M+ on s 3C is too much unless one of the top 2 is on an ELC

Post Eichel trade?

Pretty god damn close to nothing.

Adding 1 top 4 D-man externally in 3 offseasons of "building" (and 2 and a half full seasons) is effectively nothing.

Retooling the 4th line isn't really much other than yearly minimal maintenance, which he declined to do even that last year.

The idea that you can't spend 6M on your "3C" is a bit silly, because 3C is a loaded term. Typically good two way C's get the 2nd most minutes over the course of a season because they play on the PK and defensive deployments the top C typically avoids. There are the rare 1C that does everything (Bergeron/Yzerman/Crosby/etc) but most teams let their top center avoid defensive deployments and either a more defensive center handle them or have a two way center.

Should we have spent 5M on wennberg? Probably not. Would it have killed us? No. especially when we aren't spending to the cap anyways.

But, would it have been better than sending out a top prospect for a defensive center that doesn't move the needle much offensive center? Probably.

 

[Chainshot]

so everyone think we are set now?

Outside of their two arbitration cases and Krebs' RFA negotiations, I don't expect anything other than some AHL signings and maybe a PTO or two. *shrug*

 

[Dirty Dog]

Outside of their two arbitration cases and Krebs' RFA negotiations, I don't expect anything other than some AHL signings and maybe a PTO or two. *shrug*

Agreed. Maybe a veteran #7 on defense or a veteran #13 forward

But we most likely have our starting 18 on the roster
.

 

[Chainshot]

Agreed. Maybe a veteran #7 on defense or a veteran #13 forward

But we most likely have our starting 18 on the roster
.

I think the vet #7's are a battle between Bryson and Gilbert. With the trade for McLeod (and getting Malenstyn's arb case and Krebs' RFA contract done), they're at 13 forwards. Someone is going to sit already, even without the outside shot that either a prospect impresses or that they bring in someone like they did with Jankowski or Sheahan who pops more than their established folks.

 

[TageGod]

I think the vet #7's are a battle between Bryson and Gilbert. With the trade for McLeod (and getting Malenstyn's arb case and Krebs' RFA contract done), they're at 13 forwards. Someone is going to sit already, even without the outside shot that either a prospect impresses or that they bring in someone like they did with Jankowski or Sheahan who pops more than their established folks.

I really don't know how Bryson has survived this long. He is redundant anyways we have plenty of small fast D.

 

[Chainshot]

I really don't know how Bryson has survived this long. He is redundant anyways we have plenty of small fast D.

He was okay as the 8 last year. If he plays above that, they're into injuries. If he's the pressbox regular, that's okay. If he's a long-term recall option from Rochester, fine. His offensive game still never appeared from his time at Providence and that makes him weird - a small, mobile guy who is better in his own zone than offensively.

 

[MOGlLNY]

He was okay as the 8 last year. If he plays above that, they're into injuries. If he's the pressbox regular, that's okay. If he's a long-term recall option from Rochester, fine. His offensive game still never appeared from his time at Providence and that makes him weird - a small, mobile guy who is better in his own zone than offensively.

Bryson is fine in the role he's given (#8), is at a more appropriate price now and the guys like him in the room. It's fine.

 

[Chainshot]

Bryson is fine in the role he's given (#8), is at a more appropriate price now and the guys like him in the room. It's fine.

Yeah, he was 8th in both games played and total TOI among Sabre defensemen last year, 5th in GP and 6th in TOI the year prior. If they can keep him to that sub-40 GP that is their normal 8, it's okay. He's good at ending plays but the offense is just not there which is wild considering his time at Providence. Probably him and Gilbert fight it out for the 7/8 if everyone is healthy and I suspect it's Bryson who winds up in Rochester because he's 5'9"/175 lbs and Gilbert's 6'2"/215 lbs. and will throw hands.

 

[TageGod]

His previous year surviving was more egregious. I think Johnson is just flat out better and should probably earn a spot on the roster.

 

[Gras]

I really don't know how Bryson has survived this long. He is redundant anyways we have plenty of small fast D.

He's the only D in the NHL that can shutdown McJesus.

 

[HaNotsri]

Adams has done the spring cleaning that was needed years ago but the roster is still unbalanced.
I think the team will be likeable and watchable again but we need a lot of luck to fight for a playoff spot.

 

[Chainshot]

His previous year surviving was more egregious. I think Johnson is just flat out better and should probably earn a spot on the roster.

It's a question of who is playing games. I've commented that I think Johnson will be the long-term 7 this year but that will make him the 1D in Rochester until they have more than just a short-term injury on the defense. He gets 1D practice and game exposure down there, rounds out some of the rougher spots in his game, and they then inject him into the lineup when that inevitable injury happens and he's in for weeks instead of a night or two. Gilbert/Bryson are the vets who hang out in the press box. The cement is set there, there isn't really anything else for them to be working on and not playing isn't an issue other than staleness. The winner of that showdown winds up in the pressbox, the loser is the 8 who is the next man up when they have another longer injury on defense.

Traditionally, Buffalo's 7 plays over 50 games a season. Their 8 plays over 30. The 9 plays about 10. RyJo as the 50-gamer makes sense, as does him getting time to work through the stuff that kind of slowed him down ending last year.

 

[Chainshot]

Adams has done the spring cleaning that was needed years ago but the roster is still unbalanced.
I think the team will be likeable and watchable again but we need a lot of luck to fight for a playoff spot.

Getting an identity group to pull the team into games will likely also make the home crowd more involved. Buffalonians like their violence. I'm not sure why the owner has leaned so hard away from it for so long but a couple early shifts rattling the boards will have many setting down their books and devices to at least cheer for a time.

 

[Zman5778]

His previous year surviving was more egregious. I think Johnson is just flat out better and should probably earn a spot on the roster.

I'd much much rather Johnson down in Rochester playing every night and Bryson as the 7/8 than Johnson sitting the bench every night.

Bryson is absolutely fine for what he is....a 7/8 guy who won't kill you for 12-15 5v5 min per game (most nights)

 

[TehDoak]

Adams has done the spring cleaning that was needed years ago but the roster is still unbalanced.
I think the team will be likeable and watchable again but we need a lot of luck to fight for a playoff spot.

Pretty much this. Barring us having a year where multiple players have career. years (i.e. Dahlin, Peterka, Cozens all going off, Thompson and Tuch being as productive as 2022-23, Power taking a huge next step, UPL being a venzia candidate), we are looking at the bubble area, 7th-12th. The high end being 95ish points and the low end being a few games under .500 with a 86-90 point being the most likely.

Its certainly not unthinkable that this team could be a playoff team, it's not unthinkable they could finish in the bottom 8 with a few poorly timed injuries.

 

[Djp]

Post Eichel trade?

Pretty god damn close to nothing.

Adding 1 top 4 D-man externally in 3 offseasons of "building" (and 2 and a half full seasons) is effectively nothing.

Retooling the 4th line isn't really much other than yearly minimal maintenance, which he declined to do even that last year.

They drafted a high D who they knee theyd havrvto pay later means they cant go and wsyr space.. j look 3 + yrs out.

If you think JPP. Quinn, and benson grace yr bridgrs around ,$5M and thrn higher 3rd contract and fill out other roster spots they have about 5M in space over the following 3 yrs for a 3C

Should we have spent 5M on wennberg? Probably not. Would it have killed us? No. especially when we aren't spending to the cap anyways.

But, would it have been better than sending out a top prospect for a defensive center that doesn't move the needle much offensive center? Probably.

You are assuming buffalo offers him $5M he signs in buffalo. He does not have to di that.

Agreed. Maybe a veteran #7 on defense or a veteran #13 forward

But we most likely have our starting 18 on the roster
.

Right now I think its Bryson and Gilbert for 7D. Havr Johnson in rochester for the yr and be primary call up.

I think right now Krebs is the 13F who can sub in.

Next up you have a bunch of ELCs in rochester.

They could go with 14F/7D/2G and be flexible in call ups occasionally having Levi start in 3 of 4 or 4 of 6. Other times of a F/D is a little banged up they can call up someone from Rochester for the game. Maybe giving them the st as it over Krebs/13F.

Come deadline they acquire a playe if they want to try as nd get a playoff spot ot they could do a mid seasinbir early season trade.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

so everyone think we are set now?

Unless a top 6 forward trade comes along that is a fair trade, I think Sabres are done. They could move a roster player(bottom six and a prospect or pick) but I don’t think that deal is there.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Set for what?

Season 14 of no playoffs. Seems like. May the force be with Lindy.

Pretty much this. Barring us having a year where multiple players have career. years (i.e. Dahlin, Peterka, Cozens all going off, Thompson and Tuch being as productive as 2022-23, Power taking a huge next step, UPL being a venzia candidate), we are looking at the bubble area, 7th-12th. The high end being 95ish points and the low end being a few games under .500 with a 86-90 point being the most likely.

Its certainly not unthinkable that this team could be a playoff team, it's not unthinkable they could finish in the bottom 8 with a few poorly timed injuries.

Lose Dahlin for year and it's a bottom five team maybe. That said, losing your #1 will kill many teams.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'm great with what Adams has done with the defense. The ghost of 2006 is still real.

You can hide a forward just pulling an NHL shift. Imagine this current roster with 2-3 forward injuries in the playoffs. Adams can put Rousek, Kozak, Murray, Dunne, Jobst onto the NHL lineup, and those forward can likely pull a defense-first role. Rosen, Kulich, etc and the other kids would remain to be seen, but just the same, Ruff could form lines which limited the damage.

You just can't do that on defense without grinding into the ice whatever primary defenders you have left healthy. So having Bryson and Gilbert as the 7 and 8, Johnson as the 1D in Rochester and the 9, with Clague as the 10 is excellent depth.

Imagine if the team made the playoffs but was down 3 forwards (Peterka, McLeod, and Benson). I took a LW, RW, and C. Here's what the team looks like:

Quinn - Thompson - Tuch
Zucker - Cozens - Greenway
Malenstyn - Lafferty - Aube-Kubel
Rousek - Krebs - Dunne/Kozak/Murray/Kulich/Rosen

Not great but you could certainly get that 4th line to just play a sound, tight game and focus on defense and forechecking.

Now do the same for defense. Let's say Dahlin, Jokiharju, and Clifton are all hurt.

Power - Samuelsson
Byrum - Johnson
Gilbert - Bryson
x Clague

You could play with that group if you kept it simple. All 9 of those defenders can play at the NHL level when role and usage are scoped properly. It's a better group than Janik - Jillson - Paetsch - Fitzpatrick.