The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Rowley Birkin]

Agreed. I've done the mental gymnastics trying to figure out what package would work for Ottaw to get Brady Tkachuk.

No one should get wrapped around the Tkachuk idea - just that he's the type of add the team would need. It could be another forward.

I can't make it work unless the Sabres are giving Peterka or Quinn as the NHL replacement, or Kulich or Ostlund as the prospect to begin to even value.

Trading scraps (Krebs, Rosen, Greenway, Jokiharju) isn't going to get it done. If Adams has a major trade in mind for a winger of that caliber, it'll hurt.

You and I seem to be on the same page when it comes to certain players. Although unrealistic, Tkachuk is the exact type of move/upgrade that does make total sense.

I think it would take a Peterka/Quinn AND a Kulich/Ostlund to get him - but I'd be fine with that because he's such a unique player.

But this type of move is pure fantasy.

 

[TageGod]

You and I seem to be on the same page when it comes to certain players. Although unrealistic, Tkachuk is the exact type of move/upgrade that does make total sense.

I think it would take a Peterka/Quinn AND a Kulich/Ostlund to get him - but I'd be fine with that because he's such a unique player.

But this type of move is pure fantasy.

He is also from the division so add a first.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

That MO was part of a rebuild with a pretty wide open roster looking forward. It’s not a big deal to throw those around when you only have one long term deal on the books (Skinner) when it starts. Adams has locked in core pieces and there will probably be a few more. But not everyone is getting long term deals moving forward. Bridges and mid term deals will become more common.

Of course he's not going to give max term extensions out to everyone. But I'd expect it for the guys playing at the top of the LU such as Quinn and/or Peterka and/or whoever may take their spots.

You got too fixated with me mentioning Ehlers that you missed the point I was trying to make (my fault). He (Ehlers) was the first name that came to mind and was a stand in for anyone we might acquire. Adams has options that will hinge on the acquisitions age, contract status, etc. But anything from “rental” to mid term deal to long term deal can be in play.

He also has options with Quinn/Peterka as well. Which gives him a few different contract options/combos he could try with the 3 players (“vet winger addition”/Quinn/Peterka) to make things work.

The point being, Adams can very much acquire a top 6 winger and still view Quinn/Peterka as part of the plans moving forward. Assuming of course they're not part of the trade.

I'm not fixed on Ehlers. I just used him as an example. The same would apply no matter who we might acquire.

I think if you're paying Quinn/Peterka AND someone else, you will have to say goodbye to Tuch sooner than later... Which should never happen.

If you look at how this roster is likely to be constructed as we move forward, i don't see space for all four of those pieces. 3/4 of them - sure. Right now it appears to be the three guys we actually have as opposed to a potential acquisition. And I'm talking from a roster building standpoint as well as a finance/cap standpoint.

It’s crazy to me that you think this even matters. Teams try to improve the NHL roster when they can. Adams should be fired if he passes up a chance to do so because he wants to see any of our top prospects on the roster next season. Thankfully Adams isn’t thinking that way and is still open to adding a top 6 winger. Though I don’t think he’ll be very aggressively pursuing it.

Kulich has nothing to do with the addition of Zucker. He (Zucker) is insurance if they can’t acquire the aforementioned top 6 winger. Then they won’t be forced to put Benson in the top 6 if they don’t want to.

I disagree. I'm about as far away from being the guy who over values prospects... But the 1yr Zucker signing, while shopping Savoie - it tells me that he's keeping a roster spot open specifically for a guy like Kulich (or possibly Rosen if he makes the leap) who both should be ready to jump into full time NHL roles next year. We're not talking about throwing 18 yo kids in there. These guys will be D+4 & D+5 respectively by that point. These also aren't the type of players who you can put into a 'bottom 6' role - especially with how Adams has properly reshaped the roster this summer.

There is currently 1 spot on the roster for a forward. So yes, the NHL roster has a spot.

Technically there is until Krebs has signed. But realistically - no there isn't.

Right now we have a balanced group where everyone is projected to play the type of role they should be playing. Trying to shoehorn another 'top 6' guy in there will put everything else out of whack.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

He is also from the division so add a first.

I've just read DJs later post & strangely enough my offer is more or less exactly the same as his :

- Peterka
- Jokiharju
- Choice of any non NHL prospect
- 2025 R1

I think that's a pretty good offer for a guy who could walk as a UFA in a handful of years. We're the only team in the league with the assets to make it happen too.

 

[TageGod]

I've just read DJs later post & strangely enough my offer is more or less exactly the same as his :

- Peterka
- Jokiharju
- Choice of any non NHL prospect
- 2025 R1

I think that's a pretty good offer for a guy who could walk as a UFA in a handful of years. We're the only team in the league with the assets to make it happen too.

Makes Ottawa worse technically. I would rather keep Peterka. The value is there though. Your package without Peterka might get you the top 6 winger anyways.

 

[Djp]

I've just read DJs later post & strangely enough my offer is more or less exactly the same as his :

- Peterka
- Jokiharju
- Choice of any non NHL prospect
- 2025 R1

I think that's a pretty good offer for a guy who could walk as a UFA in a handful of years. We're the only team in the league with the assets to make it happen too.

Not trading Helenius or Wahlberg.
I'm not paying more than what Eichel brought back.

 

[Diaspora]

Makes Ottawa worse technically. I would rather keep Peterka. The value is there though. Your package without Peterka might get you the top 6 winger anyways.

I think that the Tkachuks likely want nothing to do with Buffalo for the foreseeable future. They would run over Pegula and Adams. Trading for Brady would make the whole Eichel saga look adorable in comparison.

Maybe if he was the last piece being added to a team already in contention, he'd stick around for a couple of years to get a ring. Until we're in that position, I'm not the least bit interested. The team needs stability and an identity before you add that piece.

 

[Jim Bob]

I've just read DJs later post & strangely enough my offer is more or less exactly the same as his :

- Peterka
- Jokiharju
- Choice of any non NHL prospect
- 2025 R1

I think that's a pretty good offer for a guy who could walk as a UFA in a handful of years. We're the only team in the league with the assets to make it happen too.

I do not believe that is anywhere close to the case.

Utah could put together a big package, as well.

Vegas could offer up something interesting, potentially. And you know they are always willing to take big swings. Just look at the Marner to Vegas rumors.

And there are other teams that could make a big package offer, especially if Ottawa wants a package in return that isn't a rebuild type package like the above and is closer to a hockey trade.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I've just read DJs later post & strangely enough my offer is more or less exactly the same as his :

- Peterka
- Jokiharju
- Choice of any non NHL prospect
- 2025 R1

I think that's a pretty good offer for a guy who could walk as a UFA in a handful of years. We're the only team in the league with the assets to make it happen too.

That’s an overpay. Eichel, a franchise center with years of control, returned less value than that.

 

[sabremike]

Giving up a kings ransom for a guy who would absolutely hate coming here and will walk out the door for nothing after two seasons seems like a very bad idea.

 

[Jim Bob]

That’s an overpay. Eichel, a franchise center with years of control, returned less value than that.

Brady also isn't dealing with a significant injury and fighting with the Sens over which surgery to have to address the injury.

That hurt Eichel's trade value.

 

[Fjordy]

Tkachuk still has four years left on his contract, which is not that little. Of course, a trade is only possible if Tkachuk asks for a deal and agrees to go to Buffalo. Then I would be willing to offer a very good package for him.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

That MO was part of a rebuild with a pretty wide open roster looking forward. It’s not a big deal to throw those around when you only have one long term deal on the books (Skinner) when it starts. Adams has locked in core pieces and there will probably be a few more. But not everyone is getting long term deals moving forward. Bridges and mid term deals will become more common.


You got too fixated with me mentioning Ehlers that you missed the point I was trying to make (my fault). He (Ehlers) was the first name that came to mind and was a stand in for anyone we might acquire. Adams has options that will hinge on the acquisitions age, contract status, etc. But anything from “rental” to mid term deal to long term deal can be in play.

He also has options with Quinn/Peterka as well. Which gives him a few different contract options/combos he could try with the 3 players (“vet winger addition”/Quinn/Peterka) to make things work.

The point being, Adams can very much acquire a top 6 winger and still view Quinn/Peterka as part of the plans moving forward. Assuming of course they're not part of the trade.

It’s crazy to me that you think this even matters. Teams try to improve the NHL roster when they can. Adams should be fired if he passes up a chance to do so because he wants to see any of our top prospects on the roster next season. Thankfully Adams isn’t thinking that way and is still open to adding a top 6 winger. Though I don’t think he’ll be very aggressively pursuing it.

Kulich has nothing to do with the addition of Zucker. He (Zucker) is insurance if they can’t acquire the aforementioned top 6 winger. Then they won’t be forced to put Benson in the top 6 if they don’t want to.

There is currently 1 spot on the roster for a forward. So yes, the NHL roster has a spot.

Everyone keeps blaming GMKA. He does have the cap room and should grab the best available to forward on a one-year. But he doesn't sign the cheques, does he? Who says he can spend more.

 

[Jim Bob]

Everyone keeps blaming GMKA. He does have the cap room and should grab the best available to forward on a one-year. But he doesn't sign the cheques, does he? Who says he can spend more.

Kevyn Adams has said that ownership has given him every resource needed when asked about an internal budget.

So, either Adams is not being honest with the media or he's the one choosing not to spend to the cap as opposed to the Pegulas giving him a budget that is well below the cap.

 

[TehDoak]

Kevyn Adams has said that ownership has given him every resource needed when asked about an internal budget.

So, either Adams is not being honest with the media or he's the one choosing not to spend to the cap as opposed to the Pegulas giving him a budget that is well below the cap.

Adams isn't an honest person. He fronts the 'oh gee shucks' stuff and sticks to a narrative well, but it should be noted his first duty as GM was to be the ax man to mid and low level employees in the middle of a pandemic to save the Pegula's, who have more money than they could ever spend in their lifetimes, money.

When someone shows you who they are, we should believe them. He was hired for his loyalty to the Pegula's, and nothing he says in the press will be something contrary to what the Pegula's want you to hear. And to be fair, that is true of all GMs, no one is going to go out and drag their owner/boss in the press. But with Adams specifically, his career depends on the Pegula's liking and trusting him, because he doesn't have the resume to get a job elsewhere.

He will never utter the words internal budget, even though there clearly is one, because it makes the Pegula's seem cheap.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I do not believe that is anywhere close to the case.

Utah could put together a big package, as well.

Vegas could offer up something interesting, potentially. And you know they are always willing to take big swings. Just look at the Marner to Vegas rumors.

And there are other teams that could make a big package offer, especially if Ottawa wants a package in return that isn't a rebuild type package like the above and is closer to a hockey trade.

Right. I should have said we're the only team that could put together that type of package without it having a huge negative effect (destroying roster in other positions, destroying prospect pipeline, etc).

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Everyone keeps blaming GMKA. He does have the cap room and should grab the best available to forward on a one-year. But he doesn't sign the cheques, does he? Who says he can spend more.

You have to ask yourself what calibre of player is realistically the best who would typically accept a 1 year deal to a non-contender as a free agent

I'd suggest Zucker is in that conversation.

 

[Jim Bob]

Right. I should have said we're the only team that could put together that type of package without it having a huge negative effect (destroying roster in other positions, destroying prospect pipeline, etc).

I still won't go that far.

I could see teams like Utah and Anaheim putting together offers that don't decimate their roster or prospect pipeline, either. And I could see Vegas making a deal that works for them in the short term, kind of like the Florida deal to get Matthew.

 

[Matt Ress]

Adams isn't an honest person. He fronts the 'oh gee shucks' stuff and sticks to a narrative well, but it should be noted his first duty as GM was to be the ax man to mid and low level employees in the middle of a pandemic to save the Pegula's, who have more money than they could ever spend in their lifetimes, money.

When someone shows you who they are, we should believe them. He was hired for his loyalty to the Pegula's, and nothing he says in the press will be something contrary to what the Pegula's want you to hear. And to be fair, that is true of all GMs, no one is going to go out and drag their owner/boss in the press. But with Adams specifically, his career depends on the Pegula's liking and trusting him, because he doesn't have the resume to get a job elsewhere.

He will never utter the words internal budget, even though there clearly is one, because it makes the Pegula's seem cheap.

This doesn't make logical sense to me. You probably have me blocked because you never really answer but ah well...

Many, many companies let go of a lot of employees during covid. This is very well documented. Also, many of these folks did fine, some better being unemployed.

Adams has been very transparent about his vision for the Sabres. Throughout. Did he say we're rebuilding so will have a low cap hit? No because that would be dumb for several reasons but clearly implied.

There's an internal budget? Well that's a weird assertion after several long term, high dollar commitments to players and the "internal budget" seemingly going up every year which would defeat the purpose.

It's so odd that this tinfoil narrative is still floating around with so little evidence for and so much against.

My theory is that some fans didn't see the team build the way they personally thought it should go so instead of admitting they're not experts, blame the army of people that do this every day for a living so as to not admit to themselves of having an uninformed, inferior opinion.

Let it go
Let it go
Turn away and slam the door

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Would you give up Sam in a Farabee deal ? Seems like the replacements in the system are still a year or 3 away unless they think Gilbert could play more now. Don't see it.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/buffalo-sabres/latest-news/sabres-have-excellent-trade-target-from-flyers

 

[zenthusiast]

They absolutely operated with an internal budget for several years. They weren’t the only ones, but in context of them being poor at constructing a team and competing for the playoffs, the issue was amplified

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Kevyn Adams has said that ownership has given him every resource needed when asked about an internal budget.

So, either Adams is not being honest with the media or he's the one choosing not to spend to the cap as opposed to the Pegulas giving him a budget that is well below the cap.

You seem to be missing the part where he didn't actually answer the question. He didn't say "no, we don't have an internal cap/budget." So I don't even think he was being dishonest -- he sidestepped the question by saying he has "all the resources" he needs to win. That's not an answer to the question.

Based on how Adams answered that, I took it as confirmation that there definitely is an internal cap. And the state of the budget going into next season all but confirms that.

Adams isn't an honest person. He fronts the 'oh gee shucks' stuff and sticks to a narrative well, but it should be noted his first duty as GM was to be the ax man to mid and low level employees in the middle of a pandemic to save the Pegula's, who have more money than they could ever spend in their lifetimes, money.

When someone shows you who they are, we should believe them. He was hired for his loyalty to the Pegula's, and nothing he says in the press will be something contrary to what the Pegula's want you to hear. And to be fair, that is true of all GMs, no one is going to go out and drag their owner/boss in the press. But with Adams specifically, his career depends on the Pegula's liking and trusting him, because he doesn't have the resume to get a job elsewhere.

He will never utter the words internal budget, even though there clearly is one, because it makes the Pegula's seem cheap.

He was asked about an internal cap and refused to answer the question directly. That means there is an internal cap, and I don't even think he lied about it.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Giving up a kings ransom for a guy who would absolutely hate coming here and will walk out the door for nothing after two seasons seems like a very bad idea.

They'll know if Tkachuk would come here first. Adams talked to anyone he's trading for to see if they like the Goo Good Dolls, blue cheese, and the Bills prior to the trade.

 

[TehDoak]

This doesn't make logical sense to me. You probably have me blocked because you never really answer but ah well...

Many, many companies let go of a lot of employees during covid. This is very well documented. Also, many of these folks did fine, some better being unemployed.

That is true.

However, how many of these companies use 'One Buffalo' as their marketing, have their owners come out wtih Bravado bragging about how much they are going to spend on the team, and use the working class people of buffalo as marketing props at every opportunity?

The Sabres have not been sold to the fans as just 'another company', they have sold themselves as an integral part of the fabric of Buffalo.

The standard has to be higher. And sending employees to unemployment during a time when no sports teams were hiring isn't being a good neighbor, it's being just another business.

Adams has been very transparent about his vision for the Sabres. Throughout. Did he say we're rebuilding so will have a low cap hit? No because that would be dumb for several reasons but clearly implied.

There's an internal budget? Well that's a weird assertion after several long term, high dollar commitments to players and the "internal budget" seemingly going up every year which would defeat the purpose.

It's so odd that this tinfoil narrative is still floating around with so little evidence for and so much against.

The evidence is very clear. They have been bottom of the league in spending the past few years.

The proper way to build a rebuilding team is supplement the young players with veterans to provide support and help smooth the ups and downs of young players by having quality veterans to surround the youth with. But, those cost money. The Sabres have had both cap space and draft capital at a time where cap space was limited. They chose not to go out and add but instead opted with a youth heavy roster to keep the budget in line.

The idea the Sabres haven't spent isn't a tin foil conspiracy theory, it's black and white facts.

My theory is that some fans didn't see the team build the way they personally thought it should go so instead of admitting they're not experts, blame the army of people that do this every day for a living so as to not admit to themselves of having an uninformed, inferior opinion.

Let it go
Let it go
Turn away and slam the door

Again, there are plenty of ways to rebuild a team. We've seen them all.

But the one way that is guaranteed to fail is to not provide financial resources to the team to be competitive with teams you are trying to make the playoffs with. And, point blank, the Pegula's have not.

 

[OkimLom]

There's an internal budget? Well that's a weird assertion after several long term, high dollar commitments to players and the "internal budget" seemingly going up every year which would defeat the purpose.

The "internal budget" doesn't necessarily mean that there is a hard number that Kevyn and Co. must stay at year after year. The fact we haven't been close to the cap, for years under Kevyn kind of shows that there must be an internal budget of some sort. Whether that's Kevyn's own doing or something handed down from ownership remains to be seen which one is correct, but Kevyn's actions of not using the cap to it's fullest points towards pretty clear there's a limit that they are operating at, and Kevyn's comments about planning for extensions and other financial decisions which would account in future years, (I believe at the most recent presser with Kevyn, please correct me if I'm wrong) shows there's some sort of budget being used.

It's so odd that this tinfoil narrative is still floating around with so little evidence for and so much against.

It doesn't take believing at a tinfoil conspiracy theory level, to think the Buffalo Sabres have an internal budget. There's plenty of plausible data points that could point towards them having an internal budget, and quite honestly, it's not that such a bad thing to have, especially if you're operating with any thoughts that you may need to invest later in the year to improve your team.