The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Gras]

The underlying issue to him being on PP2 was the unwillingness of most of the forwards to get near the front of the net. Okposo would do that, creating screens and being around for potential rebounds. There is a clear lack of the spine to go to that area among the rest of the forwards and was the position Okposo filled on that unit. It's not about his speed or scoring off the rush, it was that he was the best of a collection of poor options for that task. They still don't have that if they're going to be trying a 1-3-1 setup on PP2.



Appert had some sound PP design to accentuate strengths at the AHL level. He often utilized a lot of bumper play the likes of which Buffalo never even tried to implement. He often had multiple people at the netfront, even guys who weren't traditionally built for it. Some of it was off-puck motion, some of it was how a unit set up (some 1-high/2-middle/2-off post). If they can get that sort of adaptation out of the current talent instead of purely trying to find the single point-to-LW-flank-one-timer that they used almost without fail (and was so easily defended), they should see improvement in their PP.

Greenway and Benson are the only returning players that will go to the front of the net, don't know about the new additions though.

 

[Dingo44]

Sam Reinhart was the last guy I would have expected to be a good option in front of the net on the power play and now he's elite. Of course, I think Sam could have been elite in any role - he was not appreciated here and he still may have more potential to give.

That being said, there are guys who don't seem like traditional net front guys on the team who could learn to excel due to their hands, smarts, and tenacity. Both Quinn and Benson come to mind, along with a guy like Rosen or Wahlberg in the future.

I haven't checked - has Zucker been used in the front of the net on the PP in the past?

 

[Misko]

In Greenway's last full season with Minnesota they had 113 pts. In 2022-2023 where he was traded away that dropped to 103 pts. Then last season with no Greenway they had 87.

I am NOT saying the point drop is solely because of Greenway, but you saying they clearly couldn't use him is completely unsubstantiated and stats show the team has been worse without him.

Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation in this case, imo. Minnesota had and has more going on with their cap situation and roster than just Greenway to explain their drop off. 2022-23 was by far his worst season in his career so I don't know how he'd have been a major factor in Minnesota having a worse season without him.

I personally think Greenway is an overrated player and in an ideal world I'd prefer to see him stapled to the 4th line. I think his defensive and physical play is solid but I think he lacks finer skill and is too injury prone to be an offensive producer to warrant full-time 3rd line or better minutes. I'm fine with him being a mainstay of the PK and playing some 3rd line minutes when called upon, I'd just prefer if he was a 4th liner in the long-term. For example, Lafferty was a quality 4th liner in Vancouver who produced more or less the same amount of points, and as someone who watches a lot of Vancouver I can attest that Lafferty is a quality player but like Greenway he's a 4th liner in a perfect world.

 

[jc17]

Which of the slower guys should they have kept? At worst, the player in/player out thing is a wash [Mitts for Byram]. At best, it's a massive improvement [Okposo for Malenstyn]

That was in response to the greenway discussion.

Just because our moves clearly prioritized speed doesn't mean greenway has to go

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Greenway and Benson are the only returning players that will go to the front of the net, don't know about the new additions though.

I believe Zucker will also, though he was mostly on PP2 in Pittsburgh if I'm not mistaken. Not really any fault of his own, but when the team has Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel and Rust ahead of you it's probably difficult to get any PP1 time unless there's injuries.

Cozens seems to also have some willingness to drive the net. He's got the frame for it. They seemed to play a very loose type of game under Granato, so maybe with more structure under Ruff we'll see some of these guys doing things we hadn't in the past couple of seasons.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

The underlying issue to him being on PP2 was the unwillingness of most of the forwards to get near the front of the net. Okposo would do that, creating screens and being around for potential rebounds. There is a clear lack of the spine to go to that area among the rest of the forwards and was the position Okposo filled on that unit. It's not about his speed or scoring off the rush, it was that he was the best of a collection of poor options for that task. They still don't have that if they're going to be trying a 1-3-1 setup on PP2.



Appert had some sound PP design to accentuate strengths at the AHL level. He often utilized a lot of bumper play the likes of which Buffalo never even tried to implement. He often had multiple people at the netfront, even guys who weren't traditionally built for it. Some of it was off-puck motion, some of it was how a unit set up (some 1-high/2-middle/2-off post). If they can get that sort of adaptation out of the current talent instead of purely trying to find the single point-to-LW-flank-one-timer that they used almost without fail (and was so easily defended), they should see improvement in their PP.

If Okposo was one of our better bets on PP2, just shows how lost that team was last year. And if our PP is hinging on Appert's work in the AHL, that is a mighty big bet in year 14 of drought. Personally, I think the biggest problem with Sabres PP is the ability to make constant adjustments. Sure, throw out an Okposo there one shift to shake things up. But hockey, all sports, is about adjustments. Teams stacked the blue line all year because tried the same play over and over and over again. You have to be able to adjust to the team you are playing against. Every game. Every shift. They notice something. You adjust. It's constant.

My biggest positive for this year is an interview I saw Ruff give a while ago (don't ask me when). But he talked about evolving and coaching based onthe players you have. He is still going to demand hard-nosed play, but a Peterka will always be able to do stuff a Benson cannot. People want Owen Power to turn into Pronger 2.0. My guess is Power will evolve in a big way under Ruff but not into Pronger type player. Same thing for Peterka. And that's fine.

 

[DapperCam]

If Okposo was one of our better bets on PP2, just shows how lost that team was last year. And if our PP is hinging on Appert's work in the AHL, that is a mighty big bet in year 14 of drought. Personally, I think the biggest problem with Sabres PP is the ability to make constant adjustments. Sure, throw out an Okposo there one shift to shake things up. But hockey, all sports, is about adjustments. Teams stacked the blue line all year because tried the same play over and over and over again. You have to be able to adjust to the team you are playing against. Every game. Every shift. They notice something. You adjust. It's constant.

My biggest positive for this year is an interview I saw Ruff give a while ago (don't ask me when). But he talked about evolving and coaching based onthe players you have. He is still going to demand hard-nosed play, but a Peterka will always be able to do stuff a Benson cannot. People want Owen Power to turn into Pronger 2.0. My guess is Power will evolve in a big way under Ruff but not into Pronger type player. Same thing for Peterka. And that's fine.

I remember Ruff trying to turn Tyler Myers into something he was not due to his size. Hopefully he learned from that experience.

 

[Chainshot]

If Okposo was one of our better bets on PP2, just shows how lost that team was last year. And if our PP is hinging on Appert's work in the AHL, that is a mighty big bet in year 14 of drought. Personally, I think the biggest problem with Sabres PP is the ability to make constant adjustments. Sure, throw out an Okposo there one shift to shake things up. But hockey, all sports, is about adjustments. Teams stacked the blue line all year because tried the same play over and over and over again. You have to be able to adjust to the team you are playing against. Every game. Every shift. They notice something. You adjust. It's constant.

And Appert was good at making PP adjustments. Ellis for over 18 months clearly was not able to get them to adapt so PP1 was easily stopped. The only play they had was point-to-flanker for a one-timer and PP2 was a poor copy of PP1. They didn't adjust entries to give them a shoot-in retrieval option, they didn't adjust to have anything back post, and they rarely utilized the bumper in the manner of the teams above them in the division (Tampa, Florida, and Boston).

 

[Jacob582]

If we acquire Laine would Tage be good in the bumper position?

 

[Sabre the Win]

Sam Reinhart was the last guy I would have expected to be a good option in front of the net on the power play and now he's elite. Of course, I think Sam could have been elite in any role - he was not appreciated here and he still may have more potential to give.

That being said, there are guys who don't seem like traditional net front guys on the team who could learn to excel due to their hands, smarts, and tenacity. Both Quinn and Benson come to mind, along with a guy like Rosen or Wahlberg in the future.

I haven't checked - has Zucker been used in the front of the net on the PP in the past?

He played in front of the net here on the PP, remember the conversation people had where a few posters took the stance he could only score tip ins.

 

[michaelsaas]

Re: greenway and lines in general. I know we have some strong, logical ideas of who should be on what line but if my recollection of Ruff from his first tenure is correct, he loves juggling combos, so I don't know if anything can really be set in stone at this point aside from Dahlin as 1D.

 

[MOGlLNY]

If we acquire Laine would Tage be good in the bumper position?

I would hate this

 

[Chainshot]

Re: greenway and lines in general. I know we have some strong, logical ideas of who should be on what line but if my recollection of Ruff from his first tenure is correct, he loves juggling combos, so I don't know if anything can really be set in stone at this point aside from Dahlin as 1D.

He has a strong draw toward complimentary duos. The third would get rotated at times on a line.

 

[jc17]

And Appert was good at making PP adjustments. Ellis for over 18 months clearly was not able to get them to adapt so PP1 was easily stopped. The only play they had was point-to-flanker for a one-timer and PP2 was a poor copy of PP1. They didn't adjust entries to give them a shoot-in retrieval option, they didn't adjust to have anything back post, and they rarely utilized the bumper in the manner of the teams above them in the division (Tampa, Florida, and Boston).

Wasn't the roch pp sort of mediocre last 2 seasons?

 

[RhinosLastFan]

If we acquire Laine would Tage be good in the bumper position?

That'd be a gross misuse of his talents. Would you put Ovi in the bumper? On the PP, they're very similar.

 

[Chainshot]

Wasn't the roch pp sort of mediocre last 2 seasons?

Middle of the AHL pack both seasons.

 

[Jacob582]

I would hate this

That'd be a gross misuse of his talents. Would you put Ovi in the bumper? On the PP, they're very similar.

Are you worried that Tage is going to score less power play goals than last season? (9)

 

[MOGlLNY]

Are you worried that Tage is going to score less power play goals than last season? (9)

Yeah let’s take away his best asset as a player because of our bad power play strategy + injuries

 

[Jacob582]

bad power play strategy

* not having Tage in the bumper position

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

No Laine please.

 

[TehDoak]

Adams inability to properly assess his own team has been his biggest Achilles heel. Nothing else a GM does is more important than accurately identifying their own teams strengths and weaknesses.

While this is true, it's more than that. Its the inability to assess needs. It's inability to address needs. (which are hand in hand)

The fact he said he needed to add a top 6 forward and came away with Zucker is a red flag.

The fact that he didn't even attempt to modify the defense is a red flag.

Adams simply isn't a good GM. He's a good person and, from the sounds of it, a good manager. He simply doesn't have the right temperament or acumen to be a GM.

You need more of a ultracompetive CEO type, he's the nice manager who didn't say anything when you came in 30 minutes late everyday.

 

[Chainshot]

It's possible they try to move Tage around a bit - Vegas did so with Eichel where he isn't just on the left half-wall and instead circles high to the top of the right faceoff dot and then he can either shoot or dish. Not that Tage has Eichel's touch for passing, that's part of why he's been easier to shut down there, but it was something to look at altering how he gets his shots.

 

[Ehran]

* not having Tage in the bumper position

We do seem to have a lot of snipers but I'm having problems thinking of any of our forwards as playmakers who might be good in the bumper position.

I also think getting Skinner out of there will be a big help. I can't count the number of times last season I got frustrated seeing him lose puck possession.

 

[Jacob582]

We do seem to have a lot of snipers but I'm having problems thinking of any of our forwards as playmakers who might be good in the bumper position.

I also think getting Skinner out of there will be a big help. I can't count the number of times last season I got frustrated seeing him lose puck possession.

And didn't Ruff highlight how important he felt the bumper position is?

 

[Zach716]

I remember Ruff trying to turn Tyler Myers into something he was not due to his size. Hopefully he learned from that experience.

Power is probably the one player I’m most excited to see under a new coach. He’ll never be a bruiser but his physicality needs to improve in a big way and is his lowest hanging fruit