The Rise And Fall Of Mike Sullivan...

[DitchMarner]

Years ago (circa 2016, 2017), he was viewed as one of the better coaches in the NHL. He was praised and brought up in Coach of the Year conversations...

Now he's seen as a relic and possible politician. Many Penguins fans want him to be relieved of his duties.

I think it's quite obvious that his expiry date has passed... but what happened exactly?

Did his message become stale over time? Perhaps he couldn't adapt to a faster, higher scoring League? That would be ironic since he was credited with spearheading Pittsburgh's turnaround in the playoffs by having the team play a fast style that other teams had trouble against in the mid to late 2010s.

Maybe he simply isn't good enough to coach an aging and declining team to success. Are there that many coaches who would do better in his position?

Click to read more...

 

[PeE eL DuBoiS]

He rose and he fell. All glory is fleeting.

 

[LevelingSolo]

Every coach has a shelf life unless your Jon Cooper

 

[centipede2233]

Every coach has a shelf life unless your Jon Cooper

Agreed. In coopers defence, Tampa lost a lot of good depth players recently which has led to back to back 1st rd exits.

 

[BertCorbeau]

You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain

 

[Michael Farkas]

he was viewed as one of the better coaches in the NHL

He still is.

 

[crab]

The Penguins roster is awful. Its much easier to blame the coach then numerous players.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

He’s a good coach, Pens roster is kind of trash outside of a couple of geezers

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

He hasn’t fallen yet as he’s still (moronically) behind the bench.

I doubt FSG gives a shit though.

 

[BillyOcean]

Hes already past the "Krusty, why now? Why not 20 years ago?"

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He was great for two years when Tocchet was there to challenge things. The moment he was left to his own voice and no personality strong enough to question him, the Penguins downfall was pretty evident the year after the second cup. It's when all of the issues that we're seeing now, started.

2017-18 to now is entirely Sullivan and his system.
2015-2017 was a carry over of a tiny bit of Bylsma and Mike and then a lot of co-coaching with Tocchet. In 2017-18 is when he started to implement more of his system with Recchi as his Assistant and Gonchar.

That's when the bizarre usage, the biases, the petty behavior towards players and other shit started and hasn't stopped and the two cups have basically given him all the clout needed to get the benefit of the doubt and heaps of praise because he is great at formulating "complete sentences" or whatever these players think.

Sure the Penguins were somewhat competitive after the two cups but it wasn't long and the issues were mounting and his awful usage, arguments with certain players, etc caused a lot of bad trades and then trades for players he wanted or signed and used poorly only to have the GM give up more assets to move after his idea of how they should be used, tanked them.

2017-now is more of what Sullivan is as a coach.
2015-17 - is more Sullivan/Tocchet as a duo and using a lot of the previous 2 coach's combined changes.

He hasn’t fallen yet as he’s still (moronically) behind the bench.

I doubt FSG gives a shit though.

His elite ability to speak in complete sentences has them hypnotized.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

His elite ability to speak in complete sentences has them hypnotized.

I’m not surprised.

We’re run by a bunch of trust fund twats.

I bet the only “on ice adversity” they’ve ever faced is when their convertibles get too cold to drive in the winter.

Stupid wankers.

 

[Breakers]

Hearing some penguins fan talk about him

He sounds like the most stubborn coach in history

I’d still that title to that idiot Travis green, but he sounds like he is in the conversation.

 

[LPHabsFan]

This thread should be merged with the other one about the Penguins act getting old.

I feel like every year for the past 4 - 6 years we hear Pens fans complain about Sullivan and how he should get fired right up until Christmas/New Years and then we don't hear anything the rest of the way.

That's why it should be merged because it's the same thing. Team sucks and fans want coach out and then part way through the year things turn around.

Until they don't.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

If he gets fired, he’d have a job the next day

Gotta think shelf life has long expired

 

[SimpleJack]

I put much more blame on their front office for the current state/quality of the team.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This thread should be merged with the other one about the Penguins act getting old.

I feel like every year for the past 4 - 6 years we hear Pens fans complain about Sullivan and how he should get fired right up until Christmas/New Years and then we don't hear anything the rest of the way.

That's why it should be merged because it's the same thing. Team sucks and fans want coach out and then part way through the year things turn around.

Until they don't.

Yeah that's just incorrect. If you don't want to talk about the topic then don't.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I put much more blame on their front office for the current state/quality of the team.

FSG loves Sullivan and Sullivan actually went over the Gm's head to get his extension with them. So it's less so a problem with head office like say Dubas, than it actually is with the ownership more than likely telling them to figure out a different way without firing Sullivan.

With that said, FSG is like every other owner in sports, greedy. The Pens dropping in attendance for another year and being awful is too hard to ignore and losing money isn't something they like Sullivan enough to ignore.

 

[NVious]

He's just getting started, he has only had a bit of time with this group, they need more experience. Sid, Geno, Tanger and EK at 50 should hit their prime, so after a decade+ the Pens should be able to decide how good of a coach he is (still a small sample size so far).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He's just getting started, he has only had a bit of time with this group, they need more experience. Sid, Geno, Tanger and EK at 50 should hit their prime, so after a decade+ the Pens should be able to decide how good of a coach he is (still a small sample size so far).

There's 164 game sample size before this one that says no, he has no idea how to fix any of his issues as a coach of this team. He has 3 wins this season because of incredible individual efforts out of Malkin and Blomqvist. To get him to win again, you'd need to somehow find a prime Malkin and Crosby somewhere to mask his warts. The last 16 games last season, they went on a tear, but what was buried underneath all of that was that the Penguins scored at a ridiculously unsustainable pace (3.96) that led the league in that span but also allowed 3.34 goals against and were doing what they're doing now but without the scoring - which is bleeding chances against, turnovers, being reckless defensively.

The Penguins defense was never coached that well before this, there were times where the Penguins had very good goaltending for a few months that saved them games and made their defense look better than it was, but then when the goalies struggled and struggled hard, the defense wasn't really doing much of anything to bail them out or help. This season, having David Quinn who had the same ideas of how his team should play which didn't work well, is his assistant and now you have an Assistant that doesn't offer you a new perspective, but rather, the same one. So you have an AC that is telling you the system is fine because that's the only one he also knows and gives him confirmation he's on the right path so it must be the players again, for an 8th season in a row.

The issue is the GM's have gotten players Sullivan likes to use would work well with, theoretically anyway. But then he uses them and it's like he didn't even read their scouting report of what they did well for other teams, what they are good at, bad at, etc. He will use them how he wants and then when they struggle, act like they need to be better not that they couldn't succeed in usage they were never good in, for assignments they were never fit for. So you'd have a player that played a ton on PK units, he'd never play that player on the PK and throw them into a role that isn't really a good fit because in his mind - it should work.

He had this whole spiel about pairs - He wanted to have pairs on forwards, units of 2 and then change one of the players as needed, that was his idea to build chemistry and have the ability to tinker. Except that really only ever applied to Crosby, the rest were f***ed all over the place with random ideas for what winger should be where. He also prioritizes veterans over youth and acts like WBS has literally no one he can use, which isn't wrong but not even close to being entirely right. Last season he had Harkins play 45 games (0 goals...ZERO GOALS), White play 10, etc, but he had Gruden who was a far more effective player on the 4th line and could penalty kill, refused to give him more then a couple of games, Hallander left 2023 as he'd seen enough of the bias.

Imagine being so married to a player like Harkins because he does "something" the team needs but on the 4th line where at least most of the players on the 4th line for virtually all the teams has players that will mostly play on the PK. Harkins wasn't even good at that, but got 45 games. It's stuff like that, then his usage of Puustinen, how he kept playing Ruhwedel over players like Smith, PO Joseph, etc. Harkins isn't even an NHL caliber player and even Anaheim could see that, but not Sullivan. Players like Hallander, Puustinen, Gruden, etc aren't some fancy names, maybe they could be if they were used better, Hallander barely got a chance to even do that, Gruden shows he's capable of being a 4th line player at least and is strong on the PK, plays a smart 2-way game, Puustinen is a winger that you'd want to see more out of with better usage given the season he had last year (instead they didn't dress him for 6 games, then when they did - He was on the 4th line with Acciari and Hayes...). He healthy scratched Bunting while not trying him with Sid or elsewhere much at all, but then kept Beauvillier up on the 1st line for 6 straight games and then finally gave him the benefit of playing on a different line to see if he can do something. Bunting is a far better player than Beauvillier, while he struggled offensively, he was doing more to help his line than Beau was.

This team has overhauled so much of its roster since 2017-18, there's a ton of changes each year and each time a bunch of it's bizarre usages and implementing an archaic system that he doesn't really adjust at all and thinks the players are the issue for not being able to play how he wants, except they are playing his system and that is what it looks like. They routinely allow players to get to the crease without issue, the worst net front presence in the league, turn the puck over a ton, constantly get hemmed into their own end, overall team defense has been disjointed for a few years now, his idea of who works with whom has never made sense - Rust with Sid instead of Rakell as an example. The Penguins give up the most high danger opportunities in the league.

I think one of the funniest things said was by Bryan Rust - Something along the lines of how can the message get stale if there's so much overhaul with the roster?

The irony.

 

[Pancakes]

As a Pens fan he pretty much has followed the exact same trajectory that Bylsma did. He came in with some inventive ideas and had initial success and then all that success went to his head and he became stubborn and resistant to change. The league has continued to evolve around him and he's failed to.

That cost Bylsma his job. It might eventually cost Sullivan his.

I think he could still become a good coach again but he's going to need a dose of humility first and to reflect on all his own bad habits and there's zero chance of that happening on the Pens. He's only going to grow if they fire him.

 

[trick9]

I'd guess most non-Penguins fans still view him as top-10, top-15 coach? It's just that the team isn't really any good at this stage.

I'd be curious to hear from the Penguins fans. Why is he such a bad coach? Or do you just want the change? Do you think Penguins would be a Playoff team with another coach that's available?

 

[BB88]

That roster is just awfull and so badly build& has been for some time

But the coach is the easiest one to blame in Pitt instead of going after the real issues

Dubas has set that team back so much already

 

[Drake1588]

I don't doubt he shares blame, but it's also true that the roster has got a little bit worse every year since the two titles.

 

[DickSmehlik]

When your top core players are 38, 37, 37 and 34, and then a bunch of crap after that, it must be the coaches fault.