The Rebuild Started...

[Canucks1096]

And this is Bennings agegap trades:
Vey --- 2nd (#50 - Roland McKeown) Not in the NHL
Pedan --- Mallet, '16 3rd (came back to us) Not in the NHL
Clendening --- Forsling Not in the NHL
Baertschi --- 2nd (#53 - Rasmus Andersson) 2nd Liner
Etem --- Jensen, '17 6th (157- Lakatos) Not in the NHL
Granlund --- Shinkaruk Bottom 6 forward
Larsen --- '17 5th (126- Karow) Not in the NHL
Pouliot -- Pedan, '18 4th (99 - Demin) Bottom pairing d-man
Dowd -- Subban 4th liner/extra forward
Motte-- Vanek AHLer
Lepsic -- Holm Bottom six forward (but with some upside)

No real game changers, one decent player in Baertshi, one bottom pairing damn (Pouliot) One Bottom 6 forward (Granlund) 5 players not in the NHL.

If you are planning to go down this route and use results to determine which method is better than as of right now trading for struggling early 20 years old is better. There not even one player outside of the 1st round that is a regular player. Of course that may change. As of right now it didn't change.

 

[Canucks1096]

Also when was the lat time a player like Kucherov/Gibson/Saad was added as a reclamation project?

Real impact players (top pairing d-men, first liners and no 1 goalies) are almost never traded when they are 20 for draft picks. Sometimes they are traded as futures for nows but not for 2nd and 3rd round picks.

This is the reason you keep your picks, if you find one Kucherov or Saad in 2nd round you have added an elite player and et him when he is cheap.

Sharp for 3rd round pick
Stralman for 3rd rouns pick
Bishop for 4th round pick

If you want to look at the Benning type of trades. I can use Ladd, Naslund and Bertuzzi as examples as well since you guys use Etem in your argument. Etem had similiar amount of games.

You can throw all the Bells and whistles. But the question is there a better chance of getting a top 6/Top 4 D. COE claim the evidence is not available.

 

[me2]

It looks like you are not ready to have a professional adult hockey conversation . I won't reply to any of your post no more. Take care.

I keep asking for what you think Baertschi is worth today and you keep dodging it. You shouldn't call out others when you won't discuss things.

 

[CanaFan]

Sharp for 3rd round pick
Stralman for 3rd rouns pick
Bishop for 4th round pick

If you want to look at the Benning type of trades. I can use Ladd, Naslund and Bertuzzi as examples as well since you guys use Etem in your argument. Etem had similiar amount of games.

You can throw all the Bells and whistles. But the question is there a better chance of getting a top 6/Top 4 D. COE claim the evidence is not available.

But is there any evidence BENNING can beat these odds? Not Quinn, not Keenan. Benning.

Because based on the evidence, he’s complete shit at trades.

 

[me2]

If you are planning to go down this route and use results to determine which method is better than as of right now trading for struggling early 20 years old is better. There not even one player outside of the 1st round that is a regular player. Of course that may change. As of right now it didn't change.

That entire pile of players is worth about a 2nd combined, if you are generous and 2nd + 3rd. A bunch valueless ahlers and some NHL scrubs that are free as low priced UFAs. Baertschi is the only thing of value and he is only worth a 2nd or 3rd.

 

[CanaFan]

If you are planning to go down this route and use results to determine which method is better than as of right now trading for struggling early 20 years old is better. There not even one player outside of the 1st round that is a regular player. Of course that may change. As of right now it didn't change.

Demko and Lind are worth more than that entire pile of players, including Baertschi.

 

[RobertKron]

Wait, is the argument that the Canucks’ scouting staff is bad and shouldn’t be trusted outside the first round, or is the argument that every team in the league is foolish in not trading all of their 2-7 picks for former 1-7 picks in danger of washing out?

Has this been established?

 

[Nucker101]

Not sure how anyone can say 2016 or earlier when that was the year that the Canucks were ready to trade the Juolevi pick in a package(containing at least 1 other top young asset) to Montreal for Subban.

Doesn’t scream “rebuild” to me

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Man these poll results are mind boggling. It’s like I’m reading that half the American population thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth or doesn’t believe in evolution [MOD] anyway I just don’t understand how someone can look at a team with a top 3 prospect pool and say they aren’t rebuilding. It’s so utterly insane that it’s almost as funny as it is depressing.

 

[CanaFan]

Man these poll results are mind boggling. It’s like I’m reading that half the American population thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth or doesn’t believe in evolution. I guess it speaks to the education system.. anyway I just don’t understand how someone can look at a team with a top 3 prospect pool and say they aren’t rebuilding. It’s so utterly insane that it’s almost as funny as it is depressing.

What distinguishes a team that is rebuilding from a team that is just bad? Is every bad team rebuilding?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Man these poll results are mind boggling. It’s like I’m reading that half the American population thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth or doesn’t believe in evolution [MOD] anyway I just don’t understand how someone can look at a team with a top 3 prospect pool and say they aren’t rebuilding. It’s so utterly insane that it’s almost as funny as it is depressing.

Is Philadelphia rebuilding?

When DET created a new core with Zetterberg and Datsyuk, did they rebuild?

This will provide insight into what you do and do not understand.

 

[racerjoe]

If you are planning to go down this route and use results to determine which method is better than as of right now trading for struggling early 20 years old is better. There not even one player outside of the 1st round that is a regular player. Of course that may change. As of right now it didn't change.

You mean besides our top defender who was a third round pick?

If we are just talking about Benning than doesn’t it hurt that he has traded so many picks away?

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

I keep asking for what you think Baertschi is worth today and you keep dodging it. You shouldn't call out others when you won't discuss things.

That’s because he knows Baertschi’s currently worth a 3rd rounder. No playoff team wants a soft inconsistent perimeter player.

 

[nuck luck]

It looks like you are not ready to have a childish conversation where I misquote you and misinterpret all the key points to suit my narrative . I won't reply to any of your post no more. Take care.

Fixed.

And much appreciated!

 

[Askel]

Sharp for 3rd round pick
Stralman for 3rd rouns pick
Bishop for 4th round pick

If you want to look at the Benning type of trades. I can use Ladd, Naslund and Bertuzzi as examples as well since you guys use Etem in your argument. Etem had similiar amount of games.

You can throw all the Bells and whistles. But the question is there a better chance of getting a top 6/Top 4 D. COE claim the evidence is not available.

Did you really just compare Sharp, Stralman and Bishop with Kucherov. dear god. Bishop is not at Gibsons level.

For every Bertuzzi and Näslund trade there are ten Etem trades. Näslund was a real reclamation type trade ill give you that. Bertuzzi was traded for Linden Mr Canucks himself . It was not a reclamation type trade, it was a now for futures kind of deal . You keep moving the goalposts. Also you still haven't commented my analyses of the 2011 2nd round

 

[Askel]

If you are planning to go down this route and use results to determine which method is better than as of right now trading for struggling early 20 years old is better. There not even one player outside of the 1st round that is a regular player. Of course that may change. As of right now it didn't change.

I dont get your point are you saying that there are no players picked after the first round that are regulars. Are you talking about the Canucks under Benning or in the NHL overall?
Just because something gets results faster doesn't make it better.

In the NHL Players picked outside the first round who are regulars since Benning got here:
2014: Mountor, Point, Dvorak , Arvidsson among others
2015: Fisher, Aho, Carlo , Dunn and morr to come.

For the Canucks Tryamkin would have been one. One could argue that Demko has a good chance of being another one, also a Demko has chance to be a real impact player.

 

[Askel]

nevermind

 

[Canucks1096]

That entire pile of players is worth about a 2nd combined, if you are generous and 2nd + 3rd. A bunch valueless ahlers and some NHL scrubs that are free as low priced UFAs. Baertschi is the only thing of value and he is only worth a 2nd or 3rd.

Okay sure. As of now all of Benning picks outside of the 1st round are not in the nhl

 

[Canucks1096]

Demko and Lind are worth more than that entire pile of players, including Baertschi.

I remember you asked me once how long I watched hockey for and then you educated me on how I should know that lot of picks will be bust. You said I can't assume all these picks will make it to nhl. I will educate you now those two might not make in to the nhl. We won't know until few years later.

 

[Canucks1096]

Fixed.

And much appreciated!

If doing that makes you feel better. Okay sure. Are you the type of person that needs the last word in an argument? If you need it? I won't reply if you decide to reply to this message.

 

[Canucks1096]

You mean besides our top defender who was a third round pick?

If we are just talking about Benning than doesn’t it hurt that he has traded so many picks away?

I am talking Benning pick.

The were still 23 picks from round 2 to round 7 from 2014 to 2017.

 

[Askel]

Okay sure. As of now all of Benning picks outside of the 1st round are not in the nhl

So what you are saying is that Benning can't draft so its better for him to go after projects because maybe he can find a second line player like Baertshi?

Also Tryamkin could have been a regular and a more important player than Baertshi, but WD pissed that opportunity away.

 

[Canucks1096]

Did you really just compare Sharp, Stralman and Bishop with Kucherov. dear god. Bishop is not at Gibsons level.

For every Bertuzzi and Näslund trade there are ten Etem trades. Näslund was a real reclamation type trade ill give you that. Bertuzzi was traded for Linden Mr Canucks himself . It was not a reclamation type trade, it was a now for futures kind of deal . You keep moving the goalposts. Also you still haven't commented my analyses of the 2011 2nd round

No you said picks are almost never traded for early 20 years old that become top pairing D, 1st line winger and number 1 goalie. So I gave you 3 examples. Bishop has 2 Vezina finalists. Call me when Gibson has 2 Vezina finalists. Why don't I use Hasek instead when Hawks traded him to Buf.

"For every Naslund and Bertuzzi trade there are ten Etem trades. So I can say same thing as well for every Kucherov picks there are 200 Rob Gordon. So is it fair for me say you indirectly said you have 10% chance to get Naslund type of player with those type of trades, if yes, So prove to me to now you have a higher than 10% chance to draft a Kucherov player.

What 2011 second round? Sorry Ulif I missed it. I am battling with 10 different people right now. All the rest that were on my side got tired of debating with you guys and left.

It's not changing the Goal posts. Some of you guys use Goldobin as a reclamation trade and he was traded for Burrows. The only difference is Bertuzzi played more games

 

[Canucks1096]

I dont get your point are you saying that there are no players picked after the first round that are regulars. Are you talking about the Canucks under Benning or in the NHL overall?
Just because something gets results faster doesn't make it better.

In the NHL Players picked outside the first round who are regulars since Benning got here:
2014: Mountor, Point, Dvorak , Arvidsson among others
2015: Fisher, Aho, Carlo , Dunn and morr to come.

For the Canucks Tryamkin would have been one. One could argue that Demko has a good chance of being another one, also a Demko has chance to be a real impact player.

All the players Benning drafted after the 1st round are not nhl regulars.

Fair point, faster results is not always better. But as of right now you don't know how those draft picks will turn out. So how can use something that you don't an as an argument?

Tryamkin. Another Fair points. I counted 2014 to 2017 23 picks outside of the 1st round. So Benning picks are at 4% now.

If I give you Tryamkin I think you should give me Granlund. He did get 19 goals the year before in 69 games but Green to decided to use him a checker instead.

 

[racerjoe]

I am talking Benning pick.

The were still 23 picks from round 2 to round 7 from 2014 to 2017.

Would you expect a 2017 2-7 round pick to be playing in their draft plus 1?

Hell there is still probably just an outside chance a player drafted 2016 non 1st rounder already made the nhl.

Then as mentioned you have two dmen who would probably be playing in the nhl right now for us if we didn’t screw up with them.

This also doesn’t include Demko who probably plays, or any of the 2017s who have a chance. I mean really they are looking at 3 in 20 at worst that is what 15%.

I would say all 3 would be more impactful then Baertschi, who wasn’t even really a reclomation project, and many here when the trade happened didn’t mind it even though we slightly overpaid.