The real reason for struggles

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This is fair. But this is also exactly what I'm basing my point around. Our top skilled guys are bot available and may never be. The rest of the guys are are redundant. These are nice guys to have and many will make the team and do well in the system, bit they ate not going to replace our high dollar guys. That's the entire point. When a player becomes overpriced or declining most top teams have the flexability to trade and replace at a cheaper option.

To the point of the thread, would you agree that the direction that do was building through the draft was scratched? Also, would you agree that drafting for fit of a team like the Kings is a bad strategy because if things don't go according to plan, or if the need is filled elsewhere you have no flexibility because few teams value that type of player?
The Kings are not "universally believed to be void" whatsoever.

They are ranked low normally because they are void of a top tier talent like a Drouin, Barkov, Nichushkin etc. However they are stacked with a ridiculous amount of 2nd-4th line guys. Which, ya know, you need some of those also to make a team.

Not to mention the fact that it is extremely hard to measure (And trust me I have gone round and round with other prospect reporters on this) how successful the players will be WITHIN OUR SYSTEM. Michael Mersch is not rated very highly by others, but he has all the tools to excel in the system the Kings operate under. The same can be said for Scott Sabourin, Nic Dowd, Hudson Fasching, Nick Shore, Justin Auger etc. etc. etc.

I'd say raw top end talent is low but we have pieces that relate incredibly well to what our team is. It's intelligent drafting. There are numerous examples I could point to where talented players didn't fit the the team scheme but they were selected anyways due to them being top tier talents.

A lack of true blue chip prospects makes us probably one of the least sexy prospect systems out there, but we have talent and lots of it.
 
If you have a problem with personnel, and personally I don't think this issue is a talent issue, blame the cap for going down right after we won the Cup.
 
Every team was affected by the cap. That's a wash.

No. The cap going down affected the teams that were spending to the cap and needed to re-sign players the most. Calgary didn't lose anything because the cap went down. Bad teams may get a benefit, winning teams get hurt.
 
Every team was affected by the cap. That's a wash.

But they were not affected equally. Since DL had managed the cap so well we didn't have any bad contracts. Those GM's that had some very bad deals on the books were able to clear space by using buy outs. And as was mentioned teams that weren't already at the cap it didn't affect as well.
 
No. The cap going down affected the teams that were spending to the cap and needed to re-sign players the most. Calgary didn't lose anything because the cap went down. Bad teams may get a benefit, winning teams get hurt.

I can get on board with that train of thought. I just assumed this would make my stance a little stronger because the teams with cheap talent can step in but I guess both views are sound reasoning.
 
But they were not affected equally. Since DL had managed the cap so well we didn't have any bad contracts. Those GM's that had some very bad deals on the books were able to clear space by using buy outs. And as was mentioned teams that weren't already at the cap it didn't affect as well.

Yep we had no buyouts too because of DL's careful management.
 
Defense wins championships. What does this really mean?

A solid D core and structure is the foundation for a successful offense. The better your D is at stopping attacks and turning the puck back up ice the more successful your offense will become. You'd be surprised how much your offense improves when forwards have confidence that they will get a great pass.

Most championship winning teams have a balance. Sometimes the D ranks higher than the O. Sometimes the opposite is true. But on balance, most contenders are not that far apart in either ranking - say #3 on D and #1 on O. Or 2 and 9. Seems to me that most successful franchises build their offense and attacks around a sound defensive structure. Not the other way around.

The Gretzky Oilers are an arguable exception. But we will probably never see that kind of hockey again.
 
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This is fair. But this is also exactly what I'm basing my point around. Our top skilled guys are bot available and may never be. The rest of the guys are are redundant. These are nice guys to have and many will make the team and do well in the system, bit they ate not going to replace our high dollar guys. That's the entire point. When a player becomes overpriced or declining most top teams have the flexability to trade and replace at a cheaper option.

To the point of the thread, would you agree that the direction that dl was building through the draft was scratched? Also, would you agree that drafting for fit of a team like the Kings is a bad strategy because if things don't go according to plan, or if the need is filled elsewhere you have no flexibility because few teams value that type of player?

I don't think it's scratched at all. This team still drafts incredibly well, but the problem is we are now a SUCCESSFUL team. Makes it a whole lot harder to build through the draft if your picks are coming in the 25-30 range of each round rather than the top 10. I think it's every franchises goal to build through the draft unless you are the Flyers (who have the worst prospect system in the NHL by far). So I don't think it's scratched, it has just become much more difficult. I think there is this idea that once a team becomes successful or vies for a title you have to scrap all drafting and go into "win now" mode. That is very much not the case and the perfect example of this is the Chicago Blackhawks. They built through the draft, and continue to do so to this day despite being a perennial contender now. You just have to draft well in the position you are given.

As far as the strategy of drafting to system...I don't know, there are conflicting ideas on what is best. Most teams will tell you "they take the best player available" but they never say what player THEY THOUGHT was the best available. Every team drafts to need and to system to a degree, and then you get instances like Edmonton where there is a "can't miss" talent in front of you year after year that doesn't fit your scheme, but you take em anyways. You can see how that has worked out for them. When you look at how the Kings draft, especially in the first round, there are head scratchers for sure, but our development team is unreal and it helps we aren't trying to jam a square peg into a round hole all the time like some other organizations. To bring it kind of full circle with the Kozun trade, you can see how the organization values a player with his natural toolset over a player with Kozun's. Maybe we are getting the "less talented" player in the greater scheme, but we are getting the one that works best for us.

It's really a difficult question to answer, because everyone has their way of doing things. We've had successes and failures just like any other system. Sorry for the long winded answer.
 
Defense wins championships. What does this really mean?

A solid D core and structure is the foundation for a successful offense. The better your D is at stopping attacks and turning the puck back up ice the more successful your offense will become. You'd be surprised how much your offense improves when they forwards have confidence that they will get a great pass. Most championship winning teams have a balance. Sometimes the D ranks higher than the O. Sometimes the opposite is true. But on balance, most contenders are not that far apart in either ranking - say #3 on D and #1 on O.

Seems to me that most successful franchises build their offense and attacks around a sound defensive structure. Not the other way around.

I would say, we have that. We just need our guys to play like we all know they can play. We have three core forwards playing poorly while one, King, has improved. That won't get it done considering how much we rely on each goal.

And the role forwards, if Lewis can't score then he needs to crash the net and skate into the slot, obstruct the goaltender or put a big hit on their center or defenseman.
 
These stats are the worst. Its like, when you spot the other team a goal, you have a worse record than when you don't. Shock. The 'Team is x-x-x when player y scores' is the worst statline in hockey. Almost the worst in sports, but 'NFL team is x-x when running back y runs for z yards'

Brilliant analysis. Using your logic, the Kings should have a remarkably better record when they are "spotted" a goal, right?

Except they don't.
 
I would say, we have that. We just need our guys to play like we all know they can play. We have three core forwards playing poorly while one, King, has improved. That won't get it done considering how much we rely on each goal.

And the role forwards, if Lewis can't score then he needs to crash the net and skate into the slot, obstruct the goaltender or put a big hit on their center or defenseman.

I agree that is Lombardi's basic plan when building this team. We do have this. It is what moved us from the black hole of forever wishing for a great team to the great team we are now.

To me we need a top end shut down guy to replace Scuderi. And someone else to step up (or be traded for) who can bring the minutes and punishing play we are currently missing by having the 70% of Mitchell and 60% (or less) of Greene we have now.

Having those kind of players pairing the puck moving D - and available to Sutter for the shutdown shift after we score - would be invaluable. Seems to me that is the "missing piece" to the team. The strong shut down role D players and it's a real contributing factor for our struggling offense.
 
The power play is down right horrible, their are to many inconsistent players on this team. You can't count on a lot of the forwards to score, night in and night out. Now their turning the puck over at the blue line, stupid cross ice passes in the defensive zone. Offensive zone hooking, and holding penalties. And if they happen to score a goal they started to give one up a minute later. Plus the ducks pushed the kings around all night, they out hit them, and Nolan and Clifford didn't even have a response for all the runs that were taken at their teammates. Not only did they lose the game, but they got embarrassed physically last night. It comes a time when you need to stick up for your self. Its one thing to lose a game, but when lose and get pushed around it makes it worst.
 
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How would you rate our system? Can you find hockey mind who get paid to have an opinion outside of us on HF that says the Kings have a strong system? Our top talent was acquired late because they are complete wild cards. None are available to help. The other guys like Pearson are in no way projected to be impact players.

The system doesn't have a top end player, but neither do the systems of San Jose, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, Chicago, etc. Why? Because you don't get that explosive talent from the later half of the draft. Yet these teams maintain success with smart drafting, cap management, and signings.

I'm not going to waste my time looking for a source for you. Kings have nabbed Toffoli, Vey, Pearson, Gravel, Bartosak, Andreoff, Deslauriers, Zykov, Mersch, etc in the draft. That's a solid system. It's no Tampa Bay, but Tampa is a team like LA was in 2010 just coming out of the rebuild. It's still miles better than the empty cupboards in places like Vancouver or Chicago.

This was not meant to be a super negative post. I was very careful to use the word struggling and also I gave credit for the cup win saying that it all worked. The whole point was that we are not in a position to have sustained success due to not hitting on draft picks or trading them for the win. Coupled with that we had to overpay to keep the guys that helped us win. That happens to winners, but many teams reload with younger guys.

Nobody here will call me a negative person. If anything I've annoyed everyone for many years defending players and team. This was meant to analyze our position. I'm sorry if I offended the prospect guys. I don't watch the prospects like many do. I do read outside views of our players and our system though.

The problem is that they ARE hitting on draft picks. Pulling guys like Zykov, Toffoli, Pearson, Vey, etc from 2nd round or later is great depth.

Look at a team like Chicago. There is no new Toews or Kane coming at all. Chicago is a team built very similiarly to the Kings. There's the top end of the draft picks (Toews, Kane, Seabrook v Doughty, Kopitar, Brown), shrewd trades (Sharp, Ladd, Leddy v Richards, Carter, Williams), smart signings (Hossa v Mitchell, Scuderi) and some smart later drafting (Keith, Crawford, Hjarlmarsson, Bolland, Byfuglien, Shaw v Voynov, Quick, Martinez, Muzzin, Clifford, Nolan, Lewis, Simmonds). Both teams have competed and have young cores.

Now look at the future. If you thinking LA can never compete for long, Chicago is in the same boat. Teravainen, Rantta, Pirri, Clendening, Hartman, Morin v Toffoli, Jones, Vey, Gravel, Zykov, Pearson is a remarkably similiar list. The depth is hard to judge but I doubt either one of these smart drafting teams has huge differences.

Boils down to, if you want those top end young talents you have to be bad. Kings are a really good team and have developed a system to bring complementary talent throughout the system. That's how good teams do it. Chicago is going to replace Toews Kane Keith. We are not going to have talent to replace Koputar, Doughty, Quick. Detroit is not going to replace Datsyuk, Zetterberg (and haven't replaced Lidstrom part why they are falling). Good teams just simply can't do it. What they can do is bring along talent to supplement that talent ala Shaw, Hjarlmarsson, Bickell or King, Voynov, Nolan.

I have no idea what your reading that says the Kings don't have a great system. It's plain wrong. Rather have the Kings deep deep system pulling all kinds of players from all over the place than a system with one superstar that everyone talks about with no depth. Even though uneducated people rank that superstar team higher, it's ok to be ignored in writing, the proof is on the ice.
 
You guys crack me up. Everybody is blasting this Kings team then one person post his opinion then everybody comes out defending the Kings. It is like I can say crap about my family but if someone else does I come raging.

Exactly to the point. There is a dysfunctional Stockholm syndrome here. Please examine the fact that Sutter is only good for one inspirational season then it all goes to seed (Sutter inspired farm comment). He is the missing 4th character from Oh Brother Where Art Thou. This is a good (not great team). They over achieved to win the cup just like the Flames did under him a decade ago (they won game 6). From there it reverts back to the hope we score 2 goals and allow 1 with great goaltending. You guys can talk about farm systems and scoreless streaks all you want. Just look closely at the bench, as he nervously chews his dentures. He is lost. He has no idea how to right the ship.
 
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