The real reason for struggles

[Riposte!]

I'm not against trading Brown is the an amazing deal were to come along, but for Ehrhoff straight up?

 

[Ron*]

Wow it's just a waste of time typing responses for some people just never get it or like to live in the world of negativity. Go away with the downers and let the rest of us enjoy the best our Kings have been in 47 years of existence.

This.

It's a long season and this happens every year. I think someone mentioned some time ago that you don't even have to look at a calendar, you know its January, because Kopitar is slumping.

And just like every season the past four, I expect our Kings to kick some ass going down the stretch.

 

[Pucknut50]

You guys crack me up. Everybody is blasting this Kings team then one person post his opinion then everybody comes out defending the Kings. It is like I can say crap about my family but if someone else does I come raging.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The Goal is to land two roster players each draft year.....If I am correct Lombardi and Futa are batting 1000. So far.

06:
Bernier - was supposed to be the guy before Quick turned into Quick and took the #1 job.
Lewis - not great, but certainly a roster player on a team that has been successful.

07:
Hickey - took a chance, and missed. Got nothing for him, but he has now played in 91 of a possible 100 NHL games over the last two years. Sucks for the Kings, but he may turn out to be something at the NHL level.
Simmonds - would still be on the Kings if Richards wasn't made available.
Martinez - a top 6 NHL defenseman
King - looks like he'll stick in the NHL

08:
Doughty - no brainer
Voynov - missed on the second 1st rounder, but the Kings still got another top 4 guy.
Loktionov - has some talent. Is it a successful pick or not? Sort of, maybe.

09:
Schenn - would be the 2nd line center for the Kings if not for Richards
Clifford - he's an NHL player
Deslauriers - people seem to like him
Berube - could be a back-up one day
Vey - he's got talent, just have to continue to develop it
Nolan - an NHL player

10:
Forbort - still a prospect
Toffoli - the team's top prospect, and perhaps currently the 2nd best goal scorer

11:
Andreoff, Shore - both in Manchester developing

12:
Pearson - an overage pick, but has developing talent

13:
Zykov, Fasching - don't know much about them, but Fasching certainly had a good junior tournament.

So 2006 gets 2 players. 2007 has 3, ultimately maybe 4 NHL players. 2008 has 2 top 4 defensemen. 2009 has 3 NHL players, another on the cusp, and perhaps another two in some capacity. In 2010-2013, you have Toffoli, and then everyone else is either in Manchester or junior, so we'll see how that plays out.

07, 08, 09 the Kings had top 5 picks, so you should hit on those. Hickey probably wasn't worth the risk, and they lost him on waivers, but it is what it is. They did end up getting a top 6 defenseman in that draft though. Doughty was obvious. Schenn would be the Kings 2nd line center right now.

For an inexact science, those are pretty decent results.

 

[YP44]

I believe that the offense is indeed struggling, but we typically are in the bottom 3rd of the league. We are a defense first team and that is why the last two games have been concerning to me.

 

[MollerManor]

I have no statistics or facts to back this up, but in my opinion, I think Carter and Kopitar together is a problem. Teams recognize our top scoring guys, and if they just shut down that line, chances are good that the momentum will swing their way.

Personally, I think Kopitar should be with Toffoli. I don't have the answer on where to put Williams if that happens, but I think we can emulate the "Carter effect" with pairing them together.

 

[Muzzinga]

The reason for the struggles is the special teams ****ing stink.

Record when:
Kings score a powerplay goal - 12-9-1
Don't score a powerplay goal - 15-8-6
Allow a powerplay goal - 11-12-2
Don't allow a powerplay goal - 16-5-5

They've gone 29 games of not scoring a powerplay goal, which I think is a little bad. However, their record isn't that bad.

What's more alarming is their record when they can't kill a penalty.

These stats are the worst. Its like, when you spot the other team a goal, you have a worse record than when you don't. Shock. The 'Team is x-x-x when player y scores' is the worst statline in hockey. Almost the worst in sports, but 'NFL team is x-x when running back y runs for z yards'


anyway, grunch. Putting Carter and Kopitar together killed hte offence because firstly, they aren't anything special together, just 2 good player on a line, no extra chemistry, and secondly, teams only need to shut down that line to shut down the Kings.

Separate Kopitar and Carter. Give Williams a real centre, taking him off Kopitar's line has been awful

Or put Carter at centre, and roll Kopitar-Carter-Richards-Stoll and pick names out of a hat to see who plays wing for each ofthem

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I don't understand why this is constantly being analyzed. When was the last time the KINGS finished in the top 4 of the conference? I don't even know, but I can tell you it's been over 20 years....so you think they've managed to do that by consistently winning and their best players not slumping? No, it's the KINGS, this is what they do....and until they prove they can do something different, there's no reason to question it.

 

[Herby]

I used to be a supporter of having Carter at center, but right now they just can't do it. They just don't have the wingers.

And the Kings are going to have to play excellent defensively, and a large part of that is from the centers. Not sure if having Richards and Carter centering their own lines is a good idea when it comes to defense, although I don't think having them together is any better, so who knows.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I believe that the offense is indeed struggling, but we typically are in the bottom 3rd of the league. We are a defense first team and that is why the last two games have been concerning to me.

You can't be great for 82 games. Excuses, reasons, whatever, but there's no shame in losing in Boston to the Bruins. They're a really good home team. Yeah, the way it happened wasn't pretty. The PP can't suck and give up SH goals. The way the Kings have given up quick goals after fighting back to go up a goal or tie games isn't helpful, but that's a mental thing more than anything else. The Kings fight back and fight back and fight back, finally score, then take a breath, and boom.

Columbus? 4th road game in 6 nights, in Columbus on back to back games. The Blue Jackets are hot. If the Kings could score a goal on a PP to go up 2-0, they at least give themselves some breathing room. They didn't, Jackets stay in the game, Kings get tired, Jones gives up a bad goal and has one go off his back, and pretty soon it's a runaway win for Columbus.

Take the last 2 games, and it's a concern. Take the first 51 games of the year, and considering what hasn't gone right for the Kings this year, there's less concern because of where the Kings are in the standings. Just like statistics, you can play around with perception to come up with a different answer. I'm guessing most of the time, a fan's perception will be different right after a game, vs. after you wake up the next morning. Especially after losses.

It sucks as a fan that your only options are either to not be frustrated, or to be frustrated. And fans pay money for the pleasure of being in such a position.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

And the number one defense. Kinda funny how some complain about the bad but never what to speak of the good. Scoring is fun and all but defense and goaltending wins in the playoffs when scoring is down every year

I agree with this 1000 % This fan base is amazing with it ability to nitpick anything to find the bad in it. I would love to see more positive posts on what we're doing right however its not the way this bunch likes to post. You have to look no further then its post game threads which are almost always longer when we lose then when we win.

 

[Herby]

So I guess the new in thing now is the cliche "defense wins championships" when talking about our offense. Heard Ron mention it, now it's mentioned here.

Facts.

Offensive and Defensive rankings of the Cup winners since the first lockout.

2006- Carolina - 3rd in offense, 18th in defense
2007- Anaheim - 7th in offense, 7th in defense
2008- Detroit - 3rd in offense, 1st in defense
2009- Pittsburgh- 6th in offense, 18th in defense
2010- Chicago- 3rd in offense, 5th in defense
2011- Boston- 8th in offense, 3rd in defense
2012- Kings- 29th in offense, 2nd in defense
2013- Chicago- 2nd in offense, 1st in defense

The four best teams in the NHL right now are Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh and St. Louis they rank 2nd, 1st, 4th and 3rd in goals scored. And as far as goals against those teams rank 11th, 18th, 4th and 3rd.

But again, keep telling yourself that defense wins championships when the numbers say balanced teams win championships, and if anything it goes more towards offensive teams.

 

[Face Wash]

The four best teams in the NHL right now are Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh and St. Louis they rank 2nd, 1st, 4th and 3rd in goals scored. And as far as goals against those teams rank 11th, 18th, 4th and 3rd..

I made myself watch the Hawks/Wings game last night. What a pleasure it is to watch offensive-minded hockey being played. The Kings are a hard team to watch play when they're winning. Heavy, plodding, no creativity, awful PP. When they're losing like this....well, I start watching other games so I can watch how the rest of the good teams in the league play and so I can be reminded what entertaining hockey looks like and how the game is actually meant to be played.

 

[Anonymous028]

So I guess the new in thing now is the cliche "defense wins championships" when talking about our offense. Heard Ron mention it, now it's mentioned here.

Facts.

Offensive and Defensive rankings of the Cup winners since the first lockout.

2006- Carolina - 3rd in offense, 18th in defense
2007- Anaheim - 7th in offense, 7th in defense
2008- Detroit - 3rd in offense, 1st in defense
2009- Pittsburgh- 6th in offense, 18th in defense
2010- Chicago- 3rd in offense, 5th in defense
2011- Boston- 8th in offense, 3rd in defense
2012- Kings- 29th in offense, 2nd in defense
2013- Chicago- 2nd in offense, 1st in defense

The four best teams in the NHL right now are Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh and St. Louis they rank 2nd, 1st, 4th and 3rd in goals scored. And as far as goals against those teams rank 11th, 18th, 4th and 3rd.

But again, keep telling yourself that defense wins championships when the numbers say balanced teams win championships, and if anything it goes more towards offensive teams.

This is literally almost the exact same "balanced team" that steamrolled their way to a cup two seasons ago.

The key piece that we lost? I'll give you a hint, he wasn't a forward, he didn't score any goals, and he certainly wasn't a forward.

The only significant piece we have lost since the cup win was scuderi, and it has lots to do with how poor our PK has been. Can't wait to watch heads explode at the deadline when Lombardi acquires MacDonald from the isles, or someone comparable.

The kings don't need forwards, they need Kopitar/Brown/Richards/ to start playing like its the spring of 2012 again. Those three are the lynchpins of our offensive success along with Williams and carter. The absence of an offensive presence by our 7M dollar #1 center is completely alarming in fact.... I smell another "2 goals in 25 games" stretch by anze right about now. Happens every year.

 

[LAKings88]

The reason this team struggles is high dollar players have bad games and go through slumps.

Its normal, and the Kings role players are not skilled enough to pick up that slack(consistently).

It is, what it is.

This. Carter and Toffoli are LA's only true snipers.

 

[LAKings88]

So I guess the new in thing now is the cliche "defense wins championships" when talking about our offense. Heard Ron mention it, now it's mentioned here.

Facts.

Offensive and Defensive rankings of the Cup winners since the first lockout.

2006- Carolina - 3rd in offense, 18th in defense
2007- Anaheim - 7th in offense, 7th in defense
2008- Detroit - 3rd in offense, 1st in defense
2009- Pittsburgh- 6th in offense, 18th in defense
2010- Chicago- 3rd in offense, 5th in defense
2011- Boston- 8th in offense, 3rd in defense
2012- Kings- 29th in offense, 2nd in defense
2013- Chicago- 2nd in offense, 1st in defense

The four best teams in the NHL right now are Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh and St. Louis they rank 2nd, 1st, 4th and 3rd in goals scored. And as far as goals against those teams rank 11th, 18th, 4th and 3rd.

But again, keep telling yourself that defense wins championships when the numbers say balanced teams win championships, and if anything it goes more towards offensive teams.

I'm guessing the teams that score alot and don't give up much have a good chance at winning the cup.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The only significant piece we have lost since the cup win was scuderi, and it has lots to do with how poor our PK has been.

The PK is 5th in the league. Pittsburgh is 1st, but Scuderi has played in only 21 games.

I'm not saying Scuderi wasn't a loss though.

The PK being 5th in the league is pretty impressive. Doughty has his hiccups defensively at times, Regehr isn't what Scuderi was, Mitchell isn't quite the same, Greene can't stay healthy, Voynov has struggled, Muzzin gets a few seconds on the PK, and Martinez even less than that. Plus Quick missed a month, and he's got the worst PK numbers of the 3 goalies.

 

[LAKings88]

This is literally almost the exact same "balanced team" that steamrolled their way to a cup two seasons ago.

The key piece that we lost? I'll give you a hint, he wasn't a forward, he didn't score any goals, and he certainly wasn't a forward.

The only significant piece we have lost since the cup win was scuderi, and it has lots to do with how poor our PK has been. Can't wait to watch heads explode at the deadline when Lombardi acquires MacDonald from the isles, or someone comparable.

The kings don't need forwards, they need Kopitar/Brown/Richards/ to start playing like its the spring of 2012 again. Those three are the lynchpins of our offensive success along with Williams and carter. The absence of an offensive presence by our 7M dollar #1 center is completely alarming in fact.... I smell another "2 goals in 25 games" stretch by anze right about now. Happens every year.

I think Penner created space for Richards and Carter, he had a good playoffs.

Scuds is missed.

 

[Jason Lewis]

My point was that the Kings don't have the pieces for sustained success. The rebuild went backwards. If the Kings hit on at least half of those guys then we would have the players to step in or the players to trade.

Our farm teams success does not mean the Kings have a good system. They are universally believed to be pretty void compared to other teams.

The Kings are not "universally believed to be void" whatsoever.

They are ranked low normally because they are void of a top tier talent like a Drouin, Barkov, Nichushkin etc. However they are stacked with a ridiculous amount of 2nd-4th line guys. Which, ya know, you need some of those also to make a team.

Not to mention the fact that it is extremely hard to measure (And trust me I have gone round and round with other prospect reporters on this) how successful the players will be WITHIN OUR SYSTEM. Michael Mersch is not rated very highly by others, but he has all the tools to excel in the system the Kings operate under. The same can be said for Scott Sabourin, Nic Dowd, Hudson Fasching, Nick Shore, Justin Auger etc. etc. etc.

I'd say raw top end talent is low but we have pieces that relate incredibly well to what our team is. It's intelligent drafting. There are numerous examples I could point to where talented players didn't fit the the team scheme but they were selected anyways due to them being top tier talents.

A lack of true blue chip prospects makes us probably one of the least sexy prospect systems out there, but we have talent and lots of it.

 

[MynameisKing]

The Kings are about a .571 team. Slightly worse during the regular season. Slightly better in the playoffs. Winning around .571 is all you need to win the cup. Right now. The Kings are winning at a .627 clip. So, we are doing better than expected.

What is .571? That's winning 4 games out of every 7. So expect to lose 3 times.

 

[The Butcher]

This.

It's a long season and this happens every year. I think someone mentioned some time ago that you don't even have to look at a calendar, you know its January, because Kopitar is slumping.

And just like every season the past four, I expect our Kings to kick some ass going down the stretch.

Agreed. If history is any indication of the future we are in for a fun stretch run and playoff.

I just think some people are nervous that it may be a tough task to just "flip a switch" like we've seen them do in the past.

 

[Anonymous028]

I think Penner created space for Richards and Carter, he had a good playoffs.

Scuds is missed.

Once the season ended, yes, he provided that play.

During the regular season though, he was mostly worthless, and we don't see his absence. I do agree we need a good wing to slot on Richards wing permanently. I think Toffoli is going to be that answer, even if it means him probably taking Carter's spot as he transitions to the 1st line, where I feel he rightfully should be. Carter and Kopitar need to be our top minute-getting forwards by a big margin.

 

[etherialone]

The Kings are not "universally believed to be void" whatsoever.

They are ranked low normally because they are void of a top tier talent like a Drouin, Barkov, Nichushkin etc. However they are stacked with a ridiculous amount of 2nd-4th line guys. Which, ya know, you need some of those also to make a team.

Not to mention the fact that it is extremely hard to measure (And trust me I have gone round and round with other prospect reporters on this) how successful the players will be WITHIN OUR SYSTEM. Michael Mersch is not rated very highly by others, but he has all the tools to excel in the system the Kings operate under. The same can be said for Scott Sabourin, Nic Dowd, Hudson Fasching, Nick Shore, Justin Auger etc. etc. etc.

I'd say raw top end talent is low but we have pieces that relate incredibly well to what our team is. It's intelligent drafting. There are numerous examples I could point to where talented players didn't fit the the team scheme but they were selected anyways due to them being top tier talents.

A lack of true blue chip prospects makes us probably one of the least sexy prospect systems out there, but we have talent and lots of it.

This this this^.

The only thing I would add is that we do have two blue chippers imo, they may not be big name guys but I think they will be elite at their positions. I believe that Porkins and Gravel both could be lower tier elite talents. Not that either of them would impact the way the pundits would rank our talent all too much but in time like DL and co have proven over and over and over again, we have an exceptional talent pool and a top notch developmental system.

 

[no name]

Wow it's just a waste of time typing responses for some people just never get it or like to live in the world of negativity. Go away with the downers and let the rest of us enjoy the best our Kings have been in 47 years of existence.

This was not meant to be a super negative post. I was very careful to use the word struggling and also I gave credit for the cup win saying that it all worked. The whole point was that we are not in a position to have sustained success due to not hitting on draft picks or trading them for the win. Coupled with that we had to overpay to keep the guys that helped us win. That happens to winners, but many teams reload with younger guys.

Nobody here will call me a negative person. If anything I've annoyed everyone for many years defending players and team. This was meant to analyze our position. I'm sorry if I offended the prospect guys. I don't watch the prospects like many do. I do read outside views of our players and our system though.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Tonelli! Always happy to see you.

Since some of us are feeling a little glum today, I'll share a comment illninofan made about the Kings on the St. Louis Blues board the other day after the game:

The Blues are like that boisterous **** talking kid at school that usually pushes everyone else in the school around until that monstrous, quiet kid who does nothing but lift weights all day and plays for the football team, shows up.

And one from TheOrganist:

Ya, LA is brilliant at erasing any transition offense and rush attacks. Pierre McGuire was on TSN Radio a little while back and he made a really good point about the Kings. He said Sutter doesn't have systems as much as he has philosophies. Build teams with size. Dominate the boards. Dominate the slots. You combine that thought with what Jarrett Stoll said post-game, that they know the Blues are a lunch bucket team and that the Kings have to bring it every time they play them, and you can conclude that not only is LA built to exploit our weaknesses but we also bring out the best in them. And so that relates to my point in the other thread, that any type of immediate conclusive analysis based on games against the Kings with Quick in net is pointless. They are that bad of a matchup.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1583433&page=27