I'm not moving any goal posts lol, just pointing out that Faber's primary production was better.
Fair. Faber himself noted it (Bedard's performance) was extra impressive when thinking about his own abilities 3 years ago.
There is no world where Cale Makar is better than Connor McDavid...
Its different because they have difference makers on forward, guys who can pin the other team in their own zone. He has offensive players he can get the puck to, and not have to worry about anything else except supporting them. The Hawks not only have no one else up front to help Bedard pin the other team in their own zone, their defense is mostly trash as well.
Age most definitely plays a factor, it just depends on how big the spread is between the older player and the younger player.
Bedard plays with the two best other forwards on his team, Faber plays with the 4th best D man and then gets half his time with top 6 and half his time with the Wild’s bottom 6 forwards, which has been entirely AHLers. We have a very significant sample of how Faber looks playing with bad players, the coach trusts him in those scenarios for a reason.
You mean Kurashev, with his previous high of 25pts in a season, and Foligno? Who was a healthy scratch for the Bs last year? lol
Very strange when you’re looking at Matthews/a Kanes rookie seasons va Bedard you always bring up the “scoring level” arguments for Kane/Matthews but now when you’re defending Faber you disregard it as no big deal.
The “two best forwards on the team” had 25 and 26pts respectively last season
Unless your argument is that Kurashev is a worse player than all of Vinny Lettieri, Jake Lucchini, Mason Shaw, Brandon Duhaime, Connor Dewar, Freddy Gaudreau (with no abdominals) and the rest of the Wild’s AHL guys making under $850k, then nothing about my point changes. Faber plays with trash players too consistently in his 25 minutes a night. And assessing his game with good and bad players on the ice is the exact same for me. He looks excellent individually in all scenarios, whatever more points he would or wouldn’t score depending on his teammates doesn’t factor into how I view his individual play, and it shouldn’t for Bedard either when we have the ability to watch all of his games and see what he does in each situation.
I didn't say it was no big deal, I listed it as a factor, it's just not nearly as much of a factor because of the big scoring jump in 2017-18, which was 7.2% higher than it was in 2016-17.
The problem with this is that defensemen tend to break into the league a bit older than forwards. The biggest reason is that they have to get caught up with how much faster and stronger players are because you know, you can't just tell them to go score goals.
An injured forward group and crappy Zucc for the WIld that is still playing, is still better than anything the Hawks have outside of Bedard. The other 4-5 players you mentioned would be top 6 players on the Hawks.
?
You haven't been watching the Hawks lol
And scored all of 21 goals without Bedard. Over a season, that's like 123 goals scored. Bedard has been involved in 40% of Chicago's total goals. Yeah, they are definitely better without him lol
Whoosh. There is no way of definitively proving that, and even if you could, it just means those points relied on who he played with, nothing to do with his own play. I cannot state any clearer how little I care about raw production, but rather the means of getting there.
The argument from me is that relative team strength is a stupid topic when talking about how good an individual player is. There is so much nuance to each situation that blanket statements about how much higher one’s point output would be is complete nonsense. You play the hand that you are dealt, how you play it, regardless of luck based outcome, is what determines how good you are in my eyes.
Yeah fair enough and in terms of individual talent Bedard is clearly ahead of Faber. The gap would be even greater if Bedard was playing with Kaprizov, JEE, Boldy, Zuccarello, and Hartman. He's not, however, and instead plays with aging vets or barely-NHL level talent.
