The point total of the top players is a joke

[PsYcNeT]

It's actually almost the exact opposite. The increase of talent in bottom 6 players and bottom 3 Dmen is the issue. Stars can't just skate through half of every team whenever they want anymore.

This is like the 3rd or 4th time it's been said in this thread, but this is a huge part of it.

Of course, being that those old enough to remember all the horrible filler players from the 80s are mostly wearing rose colored glasses (or lying about watching more than highlight NHL Network games), it will be glossed over.

 

[Lacaar]

The rules of hockey change depending on the following.

1) time of the year.
2) time left in the game.
3) Score of the game.
4) veteran presence of the player (ie. how long he's been in the league.. paid his dues.. developed reputation etc.)

 

[Ogopogo*]

That glove, blocker and pads would all be illegal in today's NHL.

Today's equipment would be illegal in the 80s - that is the issue.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Today's equipment would be illegal in the 80s - that is the issue.

No it isn't. Goalie gear has been reduced twice in the last decade and GAA keeps going down and S% keeps going up. Goalie equipment is the ultimate strawman in the scoring argument, because people aren't smart enough to realize that goalies themselves are 100x better than they were 20 years ago. Not to mention that every time you make the pads smaller the goalies get faster.

 

[PsYcNeT]

Today's equipment would be illegal in the 80s - that is the issue.

You heard the man fellas, everyone back to stand-up goaltending only. Chop chop now.

 

[AD1066]

One of the reasons the scoring is down is goalies are bigger and better now days, but mainly it's because the offensive talent is not what it was lets says back in 80's and 90's.

Players aren't getting worse offensively.

 

[StoneHands]

Yep, expansion is going to force teams to play younger players or sign less talented guys to fill out a roster. Should open up things.

I 100% disagree. Expansion is going to make the game even lower scoring. Think about it, how many guys do you see who are talented offensive players and people say "look who he's playing with, how do you expect him to score?". That's going to happen even more after expansion. Guys who used to be 3rd line grinders with minimal offensive talent are going to be forced into 2nd line roles giving the true offensive 2nd line players nobody to pass to. 4th liner will be 3rd liners and AHL players will be 4th liners. It seems simple to say that the stars of the league will be paying against some guys who shouldn't be in the NHL but this isn't the old NHL where 4th lines were filled with tough guys. All expansion is going to do is give opportunity for more specialty players. You see it already, most 3rd and 4th liners are on the team for their defensive abilities. Are they anywhere near the talent of the stars of the league? No, but their skilled defensive forwards who know their job and do it well. Teams are made up of 3rd and 4th liners who are specifically there to shut down the other teams top players. Even some teams don't have the talent to ice an offensive 2nd line and just have 1 scoring line and 3 others that play stifling defense.

The reason scoring was so high in the 80's to mid 90s was because you would see 3 star players playing on a line together. How many teams have a true first line? You see threads on these boards all the time about the best duos in the NHL, but rarely the best line anymore, because most teams if they're lucky enough to have 2 great forwards, have some scrub or young guys rushed into a top 6 roll on the other wing.
Getzlaf, Perry, and... Maroon
Giroux, Voracek, and... Raffl
Tavares, Okposo, and... Kulemin
Backstrom, Ovechkin, and... Wilson
Kessel, JvR and...Bozak/Kadri
Thornton, Pavelski, and Hertl
And then there's Crosby and Malkin who have never had 2 good wingers to play with.
A lot of the teams that do have those two offensive stars playing together, suffer because they have weak secondary scoring lines.

I agree that young players are going to be forced into lineups which would make you think that they will be exposed defensively by elite forwards but the problem is, if they bring up young guys, they're going to be young offensive players who haven't fully developed yet and since the 3rd and 4th lines consist of defensive players, those guys will be rushed into a 1st or second line role and slow down the other elite players that we're hoping would be the ones exposing those young guys. Guys like Huberdeau, Bjugstad, Hertl, MacKinnon, Barkov, etc have been rushed into offensive roles because they need them on the team but they don't fit any role other than being a top 6 forward.

I truly believe that further expansion could be the absolute worst thing to happen to the NHL. I'm all for decreasing the league. If they took away some teams in markets that can barely support them and went with something like, 24 teams in the NHL, that would be 36 forwards that are currently in top 6 roles that would be on other teams. That's 1.5 more top 6 forwards on every team in the NHL which might not sound like much but it would eliminate some of the specialty players and create more dominant top lines. Not only that but it would be great for rivalries. Rivals would play potentially 5 times a year instead of possibly 3.

 

[KCC]

More power plays is not the answer. They need to find a way to increase 5on5 scoring. I swear half the games I watch are so boring until there's a penalty. It shouldn't be that way.

Montreal would more. It seems like whenever they face teams in the West, they hang on for dear life and then get PP's to win.

 

[MapleLeaf4ever]

I think they may need to look at bigger ice. Not just to create more room for scoring but also for player safety. Guys are too fast and big these days and every week a star player is getting hurt. Injuries have gone down significantly since the 09/10 season due to the rule changes for head shots but guys like Ranaldo are still taking runs at guys from behind. Also the league is moving even further towards a skating league and the extra ice would be amazing to watch guys like Kharlsson, Doughty, Douchene, Kessel and other players who are known for there tremendous skating. They don't need to go as wide as the international ice, maybe only go up to 90 ft. but I would love to see them add an extra 5-10ft. Give Crosby, Malkin, Tarasenko, and Nash some extra room to dummy guys.

 

[Sansbacon]

Longer changes on 1st and 3rd periods. Pretty simple.

I don't know if that will boost any one player's point totals, but I do think this is the best change the NHL can make to create an increase in scoring, without messing with the integrity of the game.

I like it.

 

[Ogopogo*]

No it isn't. Goalie gear has been reduced twice in the last decade and GAA keeps going down and S% keeps going up. Goalie equipment is the ultimate strawman in the scoring argument, because people aren't smart enough to realize that goalies themselves are 100x better than they were 20 years ago. Not to mention that every time you make the pads smaller the goalies get faster.

The only reason goalies can be so effective with the "butterfly" is the huge equipment. The five hole is gone and the other equipment is so large, the goalie can just sit there and be a target because there is no net to shoot. The tall pads cover the entire bottom of the net up to 11" high and the massive catching glove and shoulder pads cover up almost everything else.

Goalies appear better because of the bigger, lighter equipment. Give today's goalies 80s equipment and they wouldn't look so good anymore.

 

[Sansbacon]

The only reason goalies can be so effective with the "butterfly" is the huge equipment. The five hole is gone and the other equipment is so large, the goalie can just sit there and be a target because there is no net to shoot. The tall pads cover the entire bottom of the net up to 11" high and the massive catching glove and shoulder pads cover up almost everything else.

Goalies appear better because of the bigger, lighter equipment. Give today's goalies 80s equipment and they wouldn't look so good anymore.

Not that I agree or disagree with the bolded statement, but I would love to see an 80s equipment throwback for the all star game. Skates, gear, sticks, everything.

 

[Bending and Tending]

The only reason goalies can be so effective with the "butterfly" is the huge equipment. The five hole is gone and the other equipment is so large, the goalie can just sit there and be a target because there is no net to shoot. The tall pads cover the entire bottom of the net up to 11" high and the massive catching glove and shoulder pads cover up almost everything else.

Goalies appear better because of the bigger, lighter equipment. Give today's goalies 80s equipment and they wouldn't look so good anymore.

So false.

First off, the pads have height limits. If a goalie goes down, either their legs are long enough to cover the bottom of the net or they're not (you can throw hip flexibility into the mix as well). As for the five hole, they've reduced the amount of height above the knee so five holes are more open, but goalies are trained to close the five hole.

Second, even in 80's equipment, the goalies would still have the mechanics to perform the butterfly/slides/etc.

 

[Riddum]

People are complaining about parity? The reality is that the superstars of today are overrated. Prime Forsberg, Prime Jagr and Prime Bure would decimate this league year after year.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

The only reason goalies can be so effective with the "butterfly" is the huge equipment. The five hole is gone and the other equipment is so large, the goalie can just sit there and be a target because there is no net to shoot. The tall pads cover the entire bottom of the net up to 11" high and the massive catching glove and shoulder pads cover up almost everything else.

Goalies appear better because of the bigger, lighter equipment. Give today's goalies 80s equipment and they wouldn't look so good anymore.

People usually don't act like experts on a topic they know nothing about.

There is literally no pad size or shape that would stop goalie from playing the butterfly.

 

[Ogopogo*]

People usually don't act like experts on a topic they know nothing about.

There is literally no pad size or shape that would stop goalie from playing the butterfly.

Ahhh yes, the young uns always get up in arms over this stuff. It is to your disadvantage to be born so recently, you have missed so much.

Of course goalies can play the butterfly with any equipment - or even no equipment at all. They just wouldn't be very successful at it with 80s equipment because so much more of the net would be exposed. They might actually have to react to make a save. Sacre Bleu!

 

[PsYcNeT]

Ahhh yes, the young uns always get up in arms over this stuff. It is to your disadvantage to be born so recently, you have missed so much.

He said, without a hint of irony.

 

[XX]

No. The effect will be more destructive defense systems. Like Wild did in their first years.

Think about that. If we need to bring in less talented guys to create more scoring, the game is clearly broken. Besides, when we brought in the Florida Panthers, they figured out a way to trap their way to the finals with no talent on the roster.

The rules have changed enough to where the Wild and those Panther teams wouldn't be as effective. When there are more roster spots, teams will be more likely to play young players that need to learn at the NHL level rather than stashing them away in a lower league. How many teams have skill guys that can't cut it against top competition? Top 6 tweener types. Those guys suddenly have jobs. How many teams have D in the minors because there's no room on the NHL roster? My own team went through this with several young D. Had to trade away the pluggers clogging up the roster in front of them.

There's plenty of talent out there and it wouldn't water down the game significantly. It would in all likelihood water down the average size and strength of the league, which is what would open up the game just a bit. Expansion is necessary at this point.

 

[NYRKindms]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the previous pages but an obvious and simple solution that I didnt see was this.


How about mandatory ice conditions ? The ice these guys play on always seems to be terrible. the bouncing jumping pucks etc etc.

I think if we can give them ideal ice conditions that play would greatly improve and no need to make drastic rule changes and the like.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Ahhh yes, the young uns always get up in arms over this stuff. It is to your disadvantage to be born so recently, you have missed so much.

Of course goalies can play the butterfly with any equipment - or even no equipment at all. They just wouldn't be very successful at it with 80s equipment because so much more of the net would be exposed. They might actually have to react to make a save. Sacre Bleu!

Nothing ironic about this post!

 

[BruinsBtn]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the previous pages but an obvious and simple solution that I didnt see was this.


How about mandatory ice conditions ? The ice these guys play on always seems to be terrible. the bouncing jumping pucks etc etc.

I think if we can give them ideal ice conditions that play would greatly improve and no need to make drastic rule changes and the like.

And what exactly do you do if the ice isn't up to snuff? Send all the fans home?

 

[landstuhltaylor]

Oh I know, I have about 80 hours worth of music sitting on my computer and another 90 on an external hard drive.

Are you kidding? Last I checked my library was around 40 days and I'm far from the worst. I stopped adding to it about 3 years ago due to streaming.

 

[SaintMorose]

Does anybody know the current restrictions on thigh rises?

its 45% of the distance knee-waist ~2" reduction from the last height cap.

 

[SaintMorose]

The only reason goalies can be so effective with the "butterfly" is the huge equipment. The five hole is gone and the other equipment is so large, the goalie can just sit there and be a target because there is no net to shoot. The tall pads cover the entire bottom of the net up to 11" high and the massive catching glove and shoulder pads cover up almost everything else.

Goalies appear better because of the bigger, lighter equipment. Give today's goalies 80s equipment and they wouldn't look so good anymore.

Patrick Roy used the Butterfly with his 80's equipment. In the 80's...
Both his gloves (and everyone else's at the time) were longer than what is allowed today.
His Pads (and almost everyone else's) were also wider.

The reason goalie's look bigger now is
1. They are bigger 3-5" taller
2. They position many times better
3. Pads are cut more flat to control rebounds and seal along the ice

Not because the current smaller gear with many more restrictions is somehow bigger.

 

[ForsbergForever]

That glove, blocker and pads would all be illegal in today's NHL.

Grant Fuhr is also 5'8...