OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Whats a Running Back? Does it make the Steel Steeler?

[JTG]

Benton apparently had trouble against Kendrick Green and went 0-2. Washington went 2-2 against TJ in pass protection, and lost his one rep against Highsmith.

The Athletic has its QB tiers out

Pickett landed in Tier 4 - unproven or limited veterans - although 24 of the 50 voters had him in Tier 3 (legit starter who needs help). The selected quotes pretty much said the same thing in different ways - top notch traits, Cousins/Carr level talent. Seems fair enough.

If Pickens turns into Cousins, I'm so happy with that. I have said before, Pickett is not the most talented QB - you even notice it when Mitch comes in and starts throwing. But Pickett is not going to fail because of not working hard and giving it everything he has. If he fails it's just simply because he's not talented enough, and that's something I can live with.

That being said, everything I've read has said he has been lights out thus far.

First fight of camp is going to be Porter and Pickens.

Porter is eventually going to lose it on him.



This is just one of several incidents like this and it's not even been a week.

It's funny AF, but Porter is a proud guy and this stuff has to be pissing him off.

It's the greatest match up at camp. Porter is getting what I feel is one of the best big WRs in the league. The funny thing is, Porter won that rep until the catch. I'd actually rather see Porter play against Austin because I think he needs more work against small shifty guys. He had a tendency to hold at PSU when he was against a guy that had some shift to him.

Iron sharpens iron. If Pickens can get under Porter's skin, that's just another thing for Joey to work on. Pickens has been absolutely outrageous in camp though.

If Trice is seriously hurt, I doubt he rebounds this time. Sometimes you just can’t overcome injuries. Fingers crossed, though.

I love JPJ’s coverage on that Pickens catch, there was a shove and an absolutely unreal catch. He couldn’t have played man any better there, TBH.

Yeah, I think Trice is done. It's kind of why I just couldn't get excited for him. He has been hurt dating back to high school. It was unreasonable to expect him to turn pro and stay healthy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Benton apparently had trouble against Kendrick Green and went 0-2. Washington went 2-2 against TJ in pass protection, and lost his one rep against Highsmith.



If Pickens turns into Cousins, I'm so happy with that. I have said before, Pickett is not the most talented QB - you even notice it when Mitch comes in and starts throwing. But Pickett is not going to fail because of not working hard and giving it everything he has. If he fails it's just simply because he's not talented enough, and that's something I can live with.

That being said, everything I've read has said he has been lights out thus far.



It's the greatest match up at camp. Porter is getting what I feel is one of the best big WRs in the league. The funny thing is, Porter won that rep until the catch. I'd actually rather see Porter play against Austin because I think he needs more work against small shifty guys. He had a tendency to hold at PSU when he was against a guy that had some shift to him.

Iron sharpens iron. If Pickens can get under Porter's skin, that's just another thing for Joey to work on. Pickens has been absolutely outrageous in camp though.



Yeah, I think Trice is done. It's kind of why I just couldn't get excited for him. He has been hurt dating back to high school. It was unreasonable to expect him to turn pro and stay healthy.

KP gets compared to Cousins/Carr a lot, but these are guys who choke in the playoffs and have a combined 1-5 record when it matters.

We’ll see how his career goes, but if KP ends up like those two, I’m 100% sure every Steelers fan will be left quite disappointed.

On JPJ, I agree about the shifty guys. I saw a clip from camp where he was in zone agt a smaller WR (couldn’t see the number), and he got shook pretty hard.

Just one small clip without pads, so probably a nothing burger.

I’ll just have to see it with my own eyes he can handle the pinball guys before I feel confident about JPJ.

But I’d love to see him be the guy ppl think he can be.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

KP gets compared to Cousins/Carr a lot, but these are guys who choke in the playoffs and have a combined 1-5 record when it matters.

We’ll see how his career goes, but if KP ends up like those two, I’m 100% sure every Steelers fan will be left quite disappointed.

I think it's more of a SKILL level comparison and nothing beyond that.

Face it- there are guys who can really spin the ball but lacked the toughness (Jeff George/Rob Johnson) and vice versa (Jake Plummer/Jake Delhomme). It's a rare combo to have both. There's consensus that KP is likely the latter group

And if KP has a career like Cousins and Carr, so what? That's an acceptable level of play for where he was drafted. If you surround Cousins/Carr with a good cast you can go deep in the playoffs

 

[Peat]

The Carr/Cousins comp is strictly talent based. It says nothing about he'll use the talent. Carr ended up in Tier 3 because of "his courage in the pocket" and "key big errors".

If Pickett ends up with Carr's skill and decision making, and his own courage in the pocket and ability to avoid interceptions we saw in the tail end of last year, I'll believe in him doing better than 1-5. Cousins, I think Pickett has already shown he's better at Cousins at extending plays and going off-script, which is always held up as Cousins' big weakness.

I firmly believe that talent is floor, the way a guy uses it is his ceiling. That's why I'm okay with these comparisons.


Also apparently Porter stuck with Austin twice on long runs before they put shells on, but I'd like to see him deal with Austin with shells, and with Austin breaking in directions.

 

[JTG]

Apparently Elandon Roberts went off on Najee because he felt Najee gave up on a play.

KP gets compared to Cousins/Carr a lot, but these are guys who choke in the playoffs and have a combined 1-5 record when it matters.

We’ll see how his career goes, but if KP ends up like those two, I’m 100% sure every Steelers fan will be left quite disappointed.

On JPJ, I agree about the shifty guys. I saw a clip from camp where he was in zone agt a smaller WR (couldn’t see the number), and he got shook pretty hard.

Just one small clip without pads, so probably a nothing burger.

I’ll just have to see it with my own eyes he can handle the pinball guys before I feel confident about JPJ.

But I’d love to see him be the guy ppl think he can be.

I was more talking about his skill comparison. I think Kenny has way more guts than Cousins or Carr. I really think people who are super tough on Kenny forget how last year worked out - he had no first team reps at all in camp, he came in to an awful situation and he was a catalyst in turning around the 2nd half of the season. I wasn't a huge Pickett fan at Pitt, but I am a fan of him with the Steelers. He has this bravado and guys follow him. And from everything I have read, the dude has done nothing but work his ass off all offseason at the facility.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think it's more of a SKILL level comparison and nothing beyond that.

Face it- there are guys who can really spin the ball but lacked the toughness (Jeff George/Rob Johnson) and vice versa (Jake Plummer/Jake Delhomme). It's a rare combo to have both. There's consensus that KP is likely the latter group

And if KP has a career like Cousins and Carr, so what? That's an acceptable level of play for where he was drafted. If you surround Cousins/Carr with a good cast you can go deep in the playoffs

I still don’t see the comparison with Cousin because he’s a robotic QB that can’t create anything outside of the pocket and KP is the exact opposite.

Carr skill set may be a more similar comparison, but Carr’s arm is borderline elite and KP’s arm isn’t in that category.

I don’t buy the bad teams excuse with Cousins.

He always seems to come up short in the playoffs like he did agt the Giants - 2 mins left and he can’t get it done in the clutch, which is the story of his career.

100% sure Steeler fans will turn on KP if he has a Cousins like career.

Apparently Elandon Roberts went off on Najee because he felt Najee gave up on a play.



I was more talking about his skill comparison. I think Kenny has way more guts than Cousins or Carr. I really think people who are super tough on Kenny forget how last year worked out - he had no first team reps at all in camp, he came in to an awful situation and he was a catalyst in turning around the 2nd half of the season. I wasn't a huge Pickett fan at Pitt, but I am a fan of him with the Steelers. He has this bravado and guys follow him. And from everything I have read, the dude has done nothing but work his ass off all offseason at the facility.

Again just hate the Cousins comparisons because that dude just folds when it matters the most.

I know Steeler nation is fickle as f*** and they will turn on KP if he has the same career arc.

I get your point is that KP is a QB that will have to win on his smarts and work ethic, because he’s not an Allen, Mahomes, Lawrence type freak of nature.

 

[JTG]

Again just hate the Cousins comparisons because that dude just folds when it matters the most.

I know Steeler nation is fickle as f*** and they will turn on KP if he has the same career arc.

I get your point is that KP is a QB that will have to win on his smarts and work ethic, because he’s not an Allen, Mahomes, Lawrence type freak of nature.

He certainly is not. I think this team needs to be methodical in how they operate with Kenny. Unlike Ben where they would consistently take shots down field, I really think they need to deploy a "Patroits early-2000's" game plan where they just let Tom slice through coverages with 8-12 yard passes, strong running game, and would take big shots when they could to put the nail in teams.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He certainly is not. I think this team needs to be methodical in how they operate with Kenny. Unlike Ben where they would consistently take shots down field, I really think they need to deploy a "Patroits early-2000's" game plan where they just let Tom slice through coverages with 8-12 yard passes, strong running game, and would take big shots when they could to put the nail in teams.

Even with Roth’s big arm, he had a tendency to float balls and underthrow them.

Roth was more of a freak that built his style around being extraordinary at off schedule ball early in his career.

While he’s not some alien, I don’t see any physical limitations with KP where he can’t make specific throws or he can’t create in chaos, etc

I said this awhile back, but what will define if he’s an elite franchise type guy is how he handles pressure in the big games.

KP in year 3-4, put him in Cousins spot agt the Giants with those 2 minutes left to tie the game… will he be like Cousins and fold, or will he have that clutch gene?

On the flip side, all the physical freak abilities in the world haven’t helped LJ come playoff time so far.

 

[JTG]

Tons of positives with this rookie class. Washington was a beast in blocking drills. Herbig has been the talk of camp thus far, it seems. He's been basically unstoppable pass rushing and has shown some really good coverage skills. Though Porter has been getting beat up by Pickens a bit, I think from the videos I've seen Porter has outstanding coverage on him, but Pickens is making some unbelievable plays. Broderick Jones and Keanu Benton seem to be finding their way still.

KP in year 3-4, put him in Cousins spot agt the Giants with those 2 minutes left to tie the game… will he be like Cousins and fold, or will he have that clutch gene?

On the flip side, all the physical freak abilities in the world haven’t helped LJ come playoff time so far.

It sure seems like he has that gene thus far.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Tons of positives with this rookie class. Washington was a beast in blocking drills. Herbig has been the talk of camp thus far, it seems. He's been basically unstoppable pass rushing and has shown some really good coverage skills. Though Porter has been getting beat up by Pickens a bit, I think from the videos I've seen Porter has outstanding coverage on him, but Pickens is making some unbelievable plays. Broderick Jones and Keanu Benton seem to be finding their way still.


It sure seems like he has that gene thus far.

Jones seems to be trending up, but sounds like he’s doing well in the run game and pass blocking is a mix of good and bad.

Moore apparently is still being more of Moore, so KP’s blindside for now seems to be my biggest worry for this team.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I have no qualms about this rookie class and their contributions. Believe the first 4 picks will turn into solid starters within 2 years. KP's development is my only focus in training camp and the early games.

Running game will be fine
Defense will be fine

Putting up points in the passing game is my huge question mark. That includes their ability to protect KP
Secondary concern is how the Dline will shake out. They need the younger guys& additions to make some leaps to give Cam a rest

 

[Pens1566]

Might as well toss Austin into the "rookie class" since he's never played.

 

[Pens1566]

Seems Trice was put on IR and it's season ending.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Seems Trice was put on IR and it's season ending.

Was the knock on him coming out: super talented/athletic, but can't stay healthy.

The only silver lining is it happened before the season started and they can make contingency plans

 

[OnMyOwn]

Seems Trice was put on IR and it's season ending.

Yea I truly believe he’s done. Probably try to come back next year and then call it quits. I’d love to be wrong, but some guys just can’t get over injuries.

 

[xlm34]

Sounds like Pickens is kind of having his way with Porter Jr. so far in camp. But it looks like Porter Jr. also had two picks in today’s practice which is pretty encouraging.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Was the knock on him coming out: super talented/athletic, but can't stay healthy.

The only silver lining is it happened before the season started and they can make contingency plans

I mean Trice himself was a contingency plan.

 

[Flying Dego]

Sounds like Pickens is kind of having his way with Porter Jr. so far in camp. But it looks like Porter Jr. also had two picks in today’s practice which is pretty encouraging.

I'm in the boat of doubt when it comes to JPJ. For a combination of reasons, one of the biggest being we need him to be the main guy immediately so the pressure is immense.

But I think Pickens balling out is happening regardless of the CB. I think JPJ has battled him as good as you could expect and it honestly should help him come regular season.

I mean what CB can compete on contested catches with Pickens especially when there's zero QB pressure lol.

For our CB room to flourish I'm of the mindset we need it to be:
#1 JPJ
#2 Wallace
Slot: Peterson

No pressure JPJ...

 

[JTG]

It's easy to get hyped for your guys, but I truly believe Pickens is a bonafide #1 with generational potential. His understanding of how to set up DBs and little nuances to the WR position that are just innate to him. Factor that in with his God given ability and I just think his potential is through the roof.

Between Pickens and Washington, Pickett has two guys where he can just send up hail marys and they are probably going to come down with them. Washington in particular, I just think about those end of game hail mary balls in the end zone. Defenses will almost have to hold him in in a jump ball situation.

 

[Andy99]

It's easy to get hyped for your guys, but I truly believe Pickens is a bonafide #1 with generational potential. His understanding of how to set up DBs and little nuances to the WR position that are just innate to him. Factor that in with his God given ability and I just think his potential is through the roof.

Between Pickens and Washington, Pickett has two guys where he can just send up hail marys and they are probably going to come down with them. Washington in particular, I just think about those end of game hail mary balls in the end zone. Defenses will almost have to hold him in in a jump ball situation.

Pickens pushes off way too much…he has to learn to gain separation without it…same with running better routes…when he does that he’ll be a great WR

 

[Pens1566]

Pickens pushes off way too much…he has to learn to gain separation without it…same with running better routes…when he does that he’ll be a great WR

Right. And he absolutely needs to tone down the attitude. Otherwise, he's gonna get a ton of OPI and unsportsmanlike calls.

 

[Peat]

Porter getting picks impresses me more than getting on the wrong end of PIckens bothers me. Pickens is probably the hardest match up he'll get all year on those combat catches.

I'm still curious about what happens if you stick him on Austin a lot.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm in the boat of doubt when it comes to JPJ. For a combination of reasons, one of the biggest being we need him to be the main guy immediately so the pressure is immense.

But I think Pickens balling out is happening regardless of the CB. I think JPJ has battled him as good as you could expect and it honestly should help him come regular season.

I mean what CB can compete on contested catches with Pickens especially when there's zero QB pressure lol.

For our CB room to flourish I'm of the mindset we need it to be:
#1 JPJ
#2 Wallace
Slot: Peterson

No pressure JPJ...

While I would have preferred the safety over JPJ, I don't have too much concern about his ability to be a productive NFL corner. There will be growing pains for sure in his rookie year, but I'm taking the long vision

 

[xlm34]

I'm in the boat of doubt when it comes to JPJ. For a combination of reasons, one of the biggest being we need him to be the main guy immediately so the pressure is immense.

But I think Pickens balling out is happening regardless of the CB. I think JPJ has battled him as good as you could expect and it honestly should help him come regular season.

I mean what CB can compete on contested catches with Pickens especially when there's zero QB pressure lol.

For our CB room to flourish I'm of the mindset we need it to be:
#1 JPJ
#2 Wallace
Slot: Peterson

No pressure JPJ...

I do think Peterson and Wallace give us a good enough outside corner pairing where JPJ doesn’t have to step in right away.

But yeah I would agree that for the secondary (in particular the Cb room) to go from fine to a potential strength, JPJ will need to be effective.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Right. And he absolutely needs to tone down the attitude. Otherwise, he's gonna get a ton of OPI and unsportsmanlike calls.

I've been less critical of Tomlin than most, but if there's one thing that seems apparent to me, is that he's more likely to want a guy to have that attitude and have it draw the occasional flag than for him to tone it down.