OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Whats a Running Back? Does it make the Steel Steeler?

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Goalie_Bob

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I don't think I'm totally serious when I ponder this scenario in detail, but I wonder if I'm not looking back 3 years from now wishing this team had traded what remained of elite talent on the team for draft stock and truly rebuilt after this season, much like I believed so then but am confident now it was the wrong decision to draft Najee and Friermuth over prioritizing the lines because they wrongly tried to give Ben better weapons his last year of his career in an inevitably wasted season.

Watt will be 30 sooner rather than later, Cam will retire similarly, and there's no guarantee the Pickens types don't diva their way off the team after getting fed up with the quarterback/coordinator being incapable of running a successful offense. Look at Jamar Chase's comments from post-game yesterday, and he has Joe freakin Burrow throwing him balls whose already led them to a Super Bowl. The locker room knows before anyone outside the building when a player/team doesn't have what's required to win in this league, once they give up on you it's over and you'd best move on or you'll risk a mutiny, look at the Jets.

Problem is barring Rooney doing the unthinkable and completely cleaning house including Tomlin, this team will try their hardest to avoid a truly terrible season, so it's not even a realistic scenario to even hope for. Win middle, draft middle, stay middle is the eternal future this team has to look forward to until Mike "Jeff Fisher" Tomlin is gone.

Another issue along the same lines is how is this team ever gonna entice the young Reid or Shanahan tree offensive types to come here when it's strongly hinted at by local media that Art underpays his coaching staff beyond Tomlin. On top of that, as long as Tomlin has the perceived best job security in the league, there's no perceivable opportunity for advancement for a young up and coming coach here. Then there's the other aspect strongly hinted at that Tomlin meddles in his coordinators duties, specifically the defensive coordinator's based on Butler's statements after he left. Which then leads to the assumption Tomlin is one of the reasons the offense is so conservative, that he limits the type of offense he allows the coordinator to run. The whole wants to keep the score of the game low and let his defense make enough plays to win spiel, in an overwhelmingly offensive league.

All in all, this is not a very attractive destination for an actual modern coach with real potential to seek out, as other teams will likely always offer more control in their coordinator positions, if not the head coach position itself. Until Tomlin is gone, this team will likely never be the first option of any potential hire.

Outside of Kahn and Weidl pulling successive rabbits out of their hats for multiple drafts and somehow brute forcing a winning roster into this clown show, how does this organization realistically improve to the point where they can hang with the Chiefs and Bills of the conference, let alone an Eagles or 49ers in the Super Bowl? They're so far away from that standard it should be blasphemy to even suggest it.

I'm with you on most of what you said except for the Assistant Coach not joining because they don't think they have a chance to be the head coach.

That is something that should never cross their mind as that scenario pretty much never happens. And what I mean by that, who was the last assistant coach to take over for a sacked coach either; midseason or to be promoted at the end of a season to have a successful career?

I may be blanking out but I cant think of one......
 

Buddy Bizarre

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I don't think I'm totally serious when I ponder this scenario in detail, but I wonder if I'm not looking back 3 years from now wishing this team had traded what remained of elite talent on the team for draft stock and truly rebuilt after this season, much like I believed so then but am confident now it was the wrong decision to draft Najee and Friermuth over prioritizing the lines because they wrongly tried to give Ben better weapons his last year of his career in an inevitably wasted season.

Watt will be 30 sooner rather than later, Cam will retire similarly, and there's no guarantee the Pickens types don't diva their way off the team after getting fed up with the quarterback/coordinator being incapable of running a successful offense. Look at Jamar Chase's comments from post-game yesterday, and he has Joe freakin Burrow throwing him balls whose already led them to a Super Bowl. The locker room knows before anyone outside the building when a player/team doesn't have what's required to win in this league, once they give up on you it's over and you'd best move on or you'll risk a mutiny, look at the Jets.

Problem is barring Rooney doing the unthinkable and completely cleaning house including Tomlin, this team will try their hardest to avoid a truly terrible season, so it's not even a realistic scenario to even hope for. Win middle, draft middle, stay middle is the eternal future this team has to look forward to until Mike "Jeff Fisher" Tomlin is gone.

Another issue along the same lines is how is this team ever gonna entice the young Reid or Shanahan tree offensive types to come here when it's strongly hinted at by local media that Art underpays his coaching staff beyond Tomlin. On top of that, as long as Tomlin has the perceived best job security in the league, there's no perceivable opportunity for advancement for a young up and coming coach here. Then there's the other aspect strongly hinted at that Tomlin meddles in his coordinators duties, specifically the defensive coordinator's based on Butler's statements after he left. Which then leads to the assumption Tomlin is one of the reasons the offense is so conservative, that he limits the type of offense he allows the coordinator to run. The whole wants to keep the score of the game low and let his defense make enough plays to win spiel, in an overwhelmingly offensive league.

All in all, this is not a very attractive destination for an actual modern coach with real potential to seek out, as other teams will likely always offer more control in their coordinator positions, if not the head coach position itself. Until Tomlin is gone, this team will likely never be the first option of any potential hire.

Outside of Kahn and Weidl pulling successive rabbits out of their hats for multiple drafts and somehow brute forcing a winning roster into this clown show, how does this organization realistically improve to the point where they can hang with the Chiefs and Bills of the conference, let alone an Eagles or 49ers in the Super Bowl? They're so far away from that standard it should be blasphemy to even suggest it.

In the past 5 years or so, I've noticed that rookies have taken a step backwards. Outside of Watt (who is a generational freak) and Highsmith who has improved?

Harris
KP
Claypool
Moore
Oks
Bush
DJ

All seemed to have promising rookie season and then they plateau or regress.

So yea I'd probably be down for gutting it, but we'll probably squander any talent that lands on this team
 

bigdaddyk88

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They will find away to win against bmore at home go 3-2 and come out of the bye with DJ back.
Cincinnati will shut down Burrow that will be 2 more wins they will get to 11 wins based on schedule
 

Andy99

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They will find away to win against bmore at home go 3-2 and come out of the bye with DJ back.
Cincinnati will shut down Burrow that will be 2 more wins they will get to 11 wins based on schedule
They might but what’s the point? They won’t win a playoff game even if they somehow manage to get there due to ineptitude in their schedule worse than
theirs lol…but I do congratulate you for being the most delusionally optimist fan on this board…
 

bigdaddyk88

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They might but what’s the point? They won’t win a playoff game even if they somehow manage to get there due to ineptitude in their schedule worse than
theirs lol…but I do congratulate you for being the most delusionally optimist fan on this board…
Why wouldn’t they win a playoff game. KC is certainly beatable Buffalo is beatable we aren’t a championship lvl team but theres no great team in the afc so far.
The 1st thing we need to do is sit 29 because he is a walking target and 1st down machine.
 

Shaftception

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Why wouldn’t they win a playoff game. KC is certainly beatable Buffalo is beatable we aren’t a championship lvl team but theres no great team in the afc so far.
The 1st thing we need to do is sit 29 because he is a walking target and 1st down machine.
9f63ddbb-b40c-4061-b5c1-73486929c653_text.gif
 

pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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In the past 5 years or so, I've noticed that rookies have taken a step backwards. Outside of Watt (who is a generational freak) and Highsmith who has improved?

Harris
KP
Claypool
Moore
Oks
Bush
DJ

All seemed to have promising rookie season and then they plateau or regress.

So yea I'd probably be down for gutting it, but we'll probably squander any talent that lands on this team
So what's the point in gutting it then? Bringing in all new players is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. They need to address the root of the problem first and that's coaching.
 
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Coastal Kev

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Yep. I don't think Tomlin being a cheerleader is even an issue, though. Terry stops short of saying the same about Cowher, but I think he pretty much was a cheerleader type, too. The difference is that Cowher was smart enough, humble enough, or had enough pressure to "win the big one" that he had good coordinators. That's the issue.


Fire the OC first and then reevaluate. Don't go wasting assets or giving away useful players just because they can't make this shit offense work.
I have to disagree regarding Cowher, he built a Championship defense in KC and did so again in Pgh several times throughout his tenure. That's my biggest issue with Tomlin, if the defense was among the best year in and year out at least he would have one side of the ball covered.

But since Lebeau left, the D is simply relying on a stud up front to collapse the pocket. When that player is removed by injury or scheme, his defense folds. On top of that, he can't draft and develop on defense like Cowher could so his defense is also older and overpriced.
 
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bigdaddyk88

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KC has no running game and no WR threat outside of Kelce they have Maholmes so they will get the benefit of the doubt
Buffalo still has its own playoff issues
We have tons of issues but a healthy Cam who should be refreshed when he is back will help our defense we just need Andy Dalton Alex Smith lvl Qb play
 

Empoleon8771

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Nelson said that the Austin interception was the same play and same formation that they scored on Vegas with last week, so it was extremely easy to be prepared for it.
 
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Josey Wales

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May 16, 2022
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Bully ball? Yeah, right. The Pittsburgh Steelers haven't rushed for a TD in their first four games. If they make it five straight, it'll be a franchise first. Stats of the weird. #Steelers
 

JTG

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Sep 30, 2007
50,871
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I am on board with giving Kenny 4 years to figure this out. Just build around him and we will find out if he can develop or not.

We do need to remember when it comes to Kenny - he was over drafted, and that isn't his fault. That's the organization's fault. WIth that being said, if he were a 2nd or 3rd round pick, the expectation to come out immediately and produce wouldn't be there. I think Kenny does some good things, and I think rather than focusing on continuity they focus on him feeling secure in his role to grow and make mistakes is far more important. I won't make a judgement on Kenny until he gets out from under this offense.

They need to change what they are doing offensively. They have to get a running game going. That is bullet point 1A in my opinion. If they can get the rush going, it will soften coverages for KP and the WRs and they should be able to get some chunks.
 

xlm34

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Dec 1, 2008
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KC has no running game and no WR threat outside of Kelce they have Maholmes so they will get the benefit of the doubt
Buffalo still has its own playoff issues
We have tons of issues but a healthy Cam who should be refreshed when he is back will help our defense we just need Andy Dalton Alex Smith lvl Qb play

I respect the optimism and hope you’re proven right.
 

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
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Ryan Clark covering for his boy, the REAL PROBLEM

TOMLIN

KC has no running game and no WR threat outside of Kelce they have Maholmes so they will get the benefit of the doubt
Buffalo still has its own playoff issues
We have tons of issues but a healthy Cam who should be refreshed when he is back will help our defense we just need Andy Dalton Alex Smith lvl Qb play
I don't know man......... They were getting dominated on both sides of the line yesterday. Whether it's coaching or talent......most likely coaching, this team isn't very good.

Minkah is paid as a top player in the league, how many impact plays does he have through 4 weeks... One?

START OVER
 

The Old Master

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So what's the point in gutting it then? Bringing in all new players is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. They need to address the root of the problem first and that's coaching.
both of them! no reason to believe that coach T wouldn't get in the way of the next oc too.
 

pistolpete11

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I have to disagree regarding Cowher, he built a Championship defense in KC and did so again in Pgh several times throughout his tenure. That's my biggest issue with Tomlin, if the defense was among the best year in and year out at least he would have one side of the ball covered.

But since Lebeau left, the D is simply relying on a stud up front to collapse the pocket. When that player is removed by injury or scheme, his defense folds. On top of that, he can't draft and develop on defense like Cowher could so his defense is also older and overpriced.
He went from Dom Capers to Dick Lebeau as his DC, though. Tomlin's defense was pretty f***ing good when he had Lebeau, too.

If you look at the years in between Lebeau leaving under Cowher, the defense ebbed and flowed. In terms of points, they ranked 11, 7, 12, 6, 3, 16, and 15 (average 9.9). Not all that different than Tomlin's defense since Lebeau left...11, 10, 7, 16, 5, 3, 20, 10 (average 10.3).

This is not to prop Tomin up or tear Cowher down. What I am saying is that having good coordinators matters.
 

Buddy Bizarre

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Why wouldn’t they win a playoff game. KC is certainly beatable Buffalo is beatable we aren’t a championship lvl team but theres no great team in the afc so far.
The 1st thing we need to do is sit 29 because he is a walking target and 1st down machine.

You do realize it's been like 8 years since this team has won a playoff game, right?
 
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Buddy Bizarre

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I am on board with giving Kenny 4 years to figure this out. Just build around him and we will find out if he can develop or not.

We do need to remember when it comes to Kenny - he was over drafted, and that isn't his fault. That's the organization's fault. WIth that being said, if he were a 2nd or 3rd round pick, the expectation to come out immediately and produce wouldn't be there. I think Kenny does some good things, and I think rather than focusing on continuity they focus on him feeling secure in his role to grow and make mistakes is far more important. I won't make a judgement on Kenny until he gets out from under this offense.

They need to change what they are doing offensively. They have to get a running game going. That is bullet point 1A in my opinion. If they can get the rush going, it will soften coverages for KP and the WRs and they should be able to get some chunks.

I think KP was going to have some growing pains this season, regardless of the OC/scheme. But to this extent? Never thought it'd be this bad.

Let's put it like this: if KP was the QB for the 49ers, I don't think he'd have Purdy results, nor do I think he'd be as bad as Trey Lance. So he's somewhere in between those guys

The difference is that KP needs an environment where he's able to successfully navigate these growing pains. Do you think Tomlin/Canada/Sullivan are the right people to be in his ear? Hell Flores was apparently being credited for how he related to KP and he wasn't even on that side of the ball. It's crazy how terrible of a staff Tomlin has assembled.
 

xlm34

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If they fire Tomlin (won’t happen in a million years, but it should if he won’t do anything about the state of the offense), does anyone actually have confidence that Rooney would make the right hire as a replacement?

Every time I hear a rumor that Rooney was involved in a decision, it hasn’t been great.
 
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Colonel Mustard

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Ryan Clark covering for his boy, the REAL PROBLEM

TOMLIN


I don't know man......... They were getting dominated on both sides of the line yesterday. Whether it's coaching or talent......most likely coaching, this team isn't very good.

Minkah is paid as a top player in the league, how many impact plays does he have through 4 weeks... One?

START OVER
Minkah has more flags than impact plays this year
 
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Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
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He went from Dom Capers to Dick Lebeau as his DC, though. Tomlin's defense was pretty f***ing good when he had Lebeau, too.

If you look at the years in between Lebeau leaving under Cowher, the defense ebbed and flowed. In terms of points, they ranked 11, 7, 12, 6, 3, 16, and 15 (average 9.9). Not all that different than Tomlin's defense since Lebeau left...11, 10, 7, 16, 5, 3, 20, 10 (average 10.3).

This is not to prop Tomin up or tear Cowher down. What I am saying is that having good coordinators matters.
I agree about having great coordinators, I'm just propping Cowher up regarding his D and his ability to draft and develop on the defensive side. I remember an interview regarding the D's status after LeBeau left for Cincy, Cowher asked if he was worried losing his DC responded "it's been my D since I arrived"
 

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
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It's funny how narratives become fact; All over the internet I read how KP bailed early on that 4th and 1 call too soon by fans and media alike...........and it's now a fact.

And yet when I watch the play, 2 seconds in, a Texan busts through the collapsing pocket and lands exactly where KP was standing had he not left his spot.

 
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