OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[Pens1566]

I agree that Harris isn't the fastest back, but it's still a vision issue for me. Just constant replays with examples of decent sized holes (at least one that an NFL 1st string RB could utilize) and he will always prefer to run into contact instead of the open lane.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[UnrealMachine]

Assuming Purdy and Rodgers both finish higher in success rate and EPA, this is about where I expect whoever the QB is to hover all year.

Does this factor in rushing yards at all? Would also like to see what the rating would be if the OPI wasn’t called, also also those extra yards Pickens lost after the catch where he was ruled down before the ball even touched his hands. Either way if we are evaluating Fields solely on passing yards we are missing a huge piece of the picture in terms of rushing yards and 3rd down conversions.

 

[T1K]

I think it’s reasonable to let Russ get a start in week 2 if he’s healthy. Give him a shot at redemption and if he stinks go back to Fields.

 

[pistolpete11]

Are people really disputing that Pickens, like many top NFL WR, has some behavior issues? He doesn't block ever - the video of him avoiding a block in the Colts game last year was viral. He clearly sulks when he doesn't get the ball as often as he'd like. He's not late-stage Antonio Brown or anything and he's probably not that different than most top 20 NFL WR, but the guy has some effort and entitlement issues he displays often. To be clear I'm not advocating doing anything with him, but I can't believe this is being questioned.

Nah, bro. You just don't get it. He's misunderstood because he's young and emotional.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

He skipped a pass to Najee and Jefferson.

Assuming Purdy and Rodgers both finish higher in success rate and EPA, this is about where I expect whoever the QB is to hover all year.

yes but a couple throws dont cancel out the overall performance, and I think this level of accuracy (see CPOE) is acceptable

 

[xlm34]

Does this factor in rushing yards at all? Would also like to see what the rating would be if the OPI wasn’t called, also also those extra yards Pickens lost after the catch where he was ruled down before the ball even touched his hands. Either way if we are evaluating Fields solely on passing yards we are missing a huge piece of the picture in terms of rushing yards and 3rd down conversions.

Yeah I’m pretty sure rushing is included in EPA and success rate.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Assuming Purdy and Rodgers both finish higher in success rate and EPA, this is about where I expect whoever the QB is to hover all year.

That's basically what Fields and Wilson are, like the 20th-25th ranked starting QB in the NFL. It's not surprising the results line up there.

 

[JTG]

Fields playing and having Russ there to mentor is probably the much better situation than Russ playing if what we saw in the preseason is what we are getting.

At the end of the day, when everything boils down, Fields can still flat out fly and teams have to respect his ability to run.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fields playing and having Russ there to mentor is probably the much better situation than Russ playing if what we saw in the preseason is what we are getting.

At the end of the day, when everything boils down, Fields can still flat out fly and teams have to respect his ability to run.

Yeah I am very concerned with how Wilson's athleticism will play in this offense if the play-calling is at all similar to what they did with Fields. I figure it will be more pass-heavy with Wilson (as in replacing QB runs with passes) but Fields' athleticism was a big benefit for the team's offense IMO.

Fields didn't play well enough yesterday to create a QB controversy, but stylistically I think I like Fields in this offense more than I'll like Wilson in this offense.

 

[WickedWrister]

Assuming Purdy and Rodgers both finish higher in success rate and EPA, this is about where I expect whoever the QB is to hover all year.

Graphic version of EPA/CPOE for week 1.

The high CPOE for Fields is a bit of a surprise

 

[WickedWrister]

Fields has the highest passer rating in the North

Another cool league-wide stat I found interesting. Probably a little bit of variance, a little bit of QB's not playing much in the preseason, and QB rushing being at an all time high (25 yards per game)

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

And that's probably true but don't keep moving the goalposts. You argued that Rudolph threw over the middle of the field and put up a graphic that indicated that he really did not.

It's exactly what he did in this argument. Now it's somehow transformed into a debate about MOF throwing to "well what is the rank with QB spending?". It's PR speak and again it would not surprise me if the Steelers employed people to go on message boards to speak propaganda about how great this franchise is.

 

[lastcupever75]

He can be a diva, immature, incredibly gifted, and passionate all at the same time.

I think Pickens is a top 10-ish WR in the NFL and would be able to show it more with a good QB and an offense that doesn't play for FG's. But to ignore the attitude stuff is being willfully ignorant.

i think with a prime ben, he would get close tol AB's numbers

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I agree that Harris isn't the fastest back, but it's still a vision issue for me. Just constant replays with examples of decent sized holes (at least one that an NFL 1st string RB could utilize) and he will always prefer to run into contact instead of the open lane.

Both can be true: a vision and speed issue. Harris has had this vision problem since his rookie year. And I can't really blame the scouts on this bc how do you measure vision when he had holes cleared for him at Alabama that were the width of a Cadillac?

Vision and "feel" are things that can't be taught. It's similar to a QB's pocket awareness...he has to feel people closing in around and Harris never developed that (personally I think it's developed in pee wee and HS).

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

i think with a prime ben, he would get close tol AB's numbers

I don't know if I'd go THAT FAR. Ben and AB were frankly, telepathic.
But Pickens would tear it up with Ben...

 

[JTG]

i think with a prime ben, he would get close tol AB's numbers

We haven't seen all of what Pickens can do yet. He's been so hamstrung by the rest of the offense. If he had a QB that could really move guys around and bomb it, Pickens I think could be legitimately a generational type WR. 28 year old Ben is what Pickens needs.

Ben pumps once, and Pickens is 30 yards down field by himself.

 

[lastcupever75]

We haven't seen all of what Pickens can do yet. He's been so hamstrung by the rest of the offense. If he had a QB that could really move guys around and bomb it, Pickens I think could be legitimately a generational type WR. 28 year old Ben is what Pickens needs.

Ben pumps once, and Pickens is 30 yards down field by himself.

yes. love his talent.

and he's really good at getting contested balls. better then any reciever i recall outside of maybe AB.

big tall receivers like bryant, coates, claypool all struggled with that part. pickens doesn't

 

[WickedWrister]

Two additional things about the offense yesterday that I think were objectively positive: time of possession and 3rd down conversion

35:36 TOP including 11:21 in the 4th quarter. Three 10+ play drives. Only two 3 and outs. 8-17 on third downs, a rate they only accomplished 3 times last year.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Two additional things about the offense yesterday that I think were objectively positive: time of possession and 3rd down conversion

35:36 TOP including 11:21 in the 4th quarter. Three 10+ play drives. Only two 3 and outs. 8-17 on third downs, a rate they only accomplished 3 times last year.

That’s very important to note. I’ve commented for years when people would start shitting on the expensive D, how it was impossible to blame them when they were on the field for so long.

This defense when rested and able to stay healthy can be really good.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Two additional things about the offense yesterday that I think were objectively positive: time of possession and 3rd down conversion

35:36 TOP including 11:21 in the 4th quarter. Three 10+ play drives. Only two 3 and outs. 8-17 on third downs, a rate they only accomplished 3 times last year.

Yup our defense was absolutely gassed last year.
Know what else helps your defense more than rest? Points.

Realize it's 1 game, but they cannot have 35 mins TOP vs teams like the Bills/Chiefs and expect to win.
And that's what separates the men from the boys in this league. Teams that want to SCORE vs teams that just want to KEEP the ball from the other guys.

 

[pistolpete11]

i think with a prime ben, he would get close tol AB's numbers

Depends how you define close. I think AB was a much better route runner which is more important than whatever advantages Pickens may or may not have (height, body control, etc.).

It's really a shame he turned into such a jagoff because AB was an incredible player. Arguably the best WR in football for like a 4-5 year stretch. Not your ideal height, but he could do everything. Plus, he kicked that Browns punter in the face which is still one of the greatest highlights of all time.

 

[WickedWrister]

Yup our defense was absolutely gassed last year.
Know what else helps your defense more than rest? Points.

Realize it's 1 game, but they cannot have 35 mins TOP vs teams like the Bills/Chiefs and expect to win.
And that's what separates the men from the boys in this league. Teams that want to SCORE vs teams that just want to KEEP the ball from the other guys.

Yeah for sure, you cannot expect to win many games if your offense does not score a touchdown. Ironically, Caleb Williams and Justin Fields were the only QB's so far this week to pull off this feat
. But the moderate level of success on third down is hopefully at least a small sign of some competence in the offense. Baby steps, I guess?

I know we don't love PFF around these parts but I will agree with them if it makes us look good, even if just for a week.

They gave our OL the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in week 1. Kind of matches the eye test from what I saw. Fields wasn't really under that much pressure apart from one Spencer Anderson mistake.

1. T.J. Watt - 95.3 (highest among all defenders)
2. Cameron Heyward - 89.4
3. DeShon Elliott - 86.0
4. Justin Fields - 75.9
5. James Daniels - 75.8

 

[Colonel Mustard]

After the first series or two i thought fields looked decent to good. Wasnt making mistakes that cost the team, took what was given. There was one play late where he just threw the ball into the dirt, instead of forcing something. So maybe he is coachable. Felt better watching him than pickett for sure (a low bench i know)

 

[Peat]

The third down conversions - both regularity and how easy they looked - is a big part of why I think Smith deserves a definite thumbs up for the week. He was getting guys open for big plays. That pass to Pickens that the zebras originally called short was the sort of play we'd been screaming out for from Canada and never getting. That play for the huge chunk to Pickens at the end of the second half was also great and a real momentum swinger.

The OL having a great day pass blocking also stands up imo.